Epic Games CEO Renews Attack on Apple and Calls for Single, Universal App Store

[shplock]

Here is US marketshare as of May: iOS is 53%.

Mobile smartphone OS market share U.S. 2018-2024| Statista

Apple's iOS continues to hold the largest share of the smartphone operating systems market in the United States, claiming more than **** of the market in 2024.

www.statista.com

worldwide marketshare is irrelevant when each country is it's own. It's about how it effects it's own citizens.

Your country, Apple might have 70% and Google is 30%, or vise versa.

With respect you are wrong as now you are back peddling.
The metric to be used is global share as both Android and IOS are global platforms.
To do otherwise is to cherry pick which is what you tried to do.
The end result is that Sweeny's argument is flawed, wrong and just a contradiction as I already proved.

 

[laptech]

Because it fails in the real world.
In the real world we do not have only 1 store selling games or just 1 store selling music etc, we have many different companies selling games, music etc and that gives customers choice.
By having only 1 universal store we take away that choice and presumably with Sweeny as boss of the universal store we end up with him as essentially a dictator demanding what happens which is what a monopoly is, despite his arguments that Apple has one.
This is a glaring contradiction.

What are you talking about it fails in the real world?? if it fails in the real world then please explain the existence of all under one roof retail and why they work?. Walmart sells music, games, phones, tv's and much much more from multiple manufacturers. If Places such as Walmart can have everything under one roof, why can't mobile phone apps?

 

[Abazigal]

Not true. I don’t really care one way or the other, but you’re not forced to install third party app stores even if they’re available. The reducing consumer choice by giving them more choices makes absolutely no sense.

It makes sense when you see it more along the lines that users may not be getting more of what they want, but instead be saddled with more issues to contend with.

For example, one benefit of the iOS App Store is that Apple is able to use its leverage over developers to force them to implement features like ATT and Sign In with Apple. These are features which improve my privacy, but which developers would be hesitant to introduce, because there is zero benefit to them (and in some cases, actually harm their own profitability).

Right now, iOS app developers include ATT because they really have no choice; it’s a prerequisite if they want their app to pass app review. A third party App Store would give developers a means of skirting around iOS App Store rules. Imagine if the only way to get the facebook app were via their own facebook App Store, where their apps (and any third party apps they do host) would presumably not be subject to Apple’s privacy rules.

So to go back to my original point, having a single App Store on iOS would give me fewer choices, yes, but I would personally rather have fewer, more meaningful choices. Rather than having more choices on paper, but none of them represent a better user experience for me as the end user.

 

[shplock]

A single cross platform App Store with no restrictions like Apple’s stupid streaming service, torrent client and emulator policy would be AMAZING.

It would not work, would be a monopoly which is what Epic are arguing against yet shooting themselves in the foot by wanting one and is as dumb an idea as it gets.
If you hate Apple then please go to another forum such as Android.

 

[shplock]

Same could apply to every billionaire on Twitter. Shall we eat them or tax them so hard they act normal again?

The problem with taxing billionaires that hard is that you kill the goose that lays the golden egg as it were and who will pick up the slack? Certainly not the people complaining about them that's for sure.
I agree they should pay their fair share of tax but depends on how you tax them.

 

[shplock]

And yet if that were the case, why haven’t they just done it on Android, where they could make their own store any time they wanted? That’s what I can’t figure out.

They’re doing the same thing on Windows, with the Epic Games Store, where they are basically burning money by the truckload to buy timed exclusivity for certain titles and to give away free game in the hope of getting people to use their storefront, which is lacking most of the features that make Steam so formidable to compete against.

So, clearly, they understand the concept, but they haven‘t done the same thing on Android. I genuinely don’t understand why, if “giving users a choice” is truly such a moral imperative for them.

The fact that they’re ignoring Android, where they could have a store but don’t, to whine about not being able to have a store on iOS seems a bit silly to me.

I think the reason is that Sweeney is just not as smart as he thinks he is.
Whatever his end game is he already lost, he just will not accept it hence the whinging.

 

[shplock]

Don't pretend you don't know what he means. I'd be more than happy not needing to purchase the same games on playstation when I switch from xbox (or vice versa).

And I'm not talking about exclusive of course but the exact same items on multi platforms.

Don't pretend that you think a single universal app store is a good idea because it is a terrible idea.

 

[shplock]

Why is it people always look at the extreme version of events to try and justify their distaste of Epic and it's CEO? Sweeny talked about an 'all in one store'. He did not say everything else had to close to make that happen which is what your suggesting.

Walmart sells brand name items and some of those brands have their own stores too. There are mobile phone shops that sell multi brand items and yet those brands have their own stores. As I said, the principle of his idea works in the real world so why not in the digital world?

We've taken it for granted the idea of one store selling everything we need, for the most part people have accepted Amazon for selling everything online that we need so why can't there be one app store that has everything that we need? Why is the concept so difficult to understand or accept but yet we accept it everywhere else? Is it because it involves Apple and because this is an Apple forum, anything that goes against Apple's ecosystem is automatically rejected because that is what appears to be happening here in this case.

I like how some people will defend any amount of lunacy or evil no matter what happens simply because they wish to be obtuse.
Sweeney DOES want a single universal app store and by definition that means all others close down.
Even if not it is still a contradiction that he wants Apple taken down a few pegs because they have a monopoly and yet he then wants a monopoly as the solution presumably with him in charge?
If that is not lunacy then I do not know what is.

 

[shplock]

It doesn't reduce anything ?

Yes it does.

 

[shplock]

Epic is promoting an absolutely stupid idea !

Apple needs "App Discovery" competition first & foremost, as it has three benefits:

1.) Enables App Store consumers to circumvent Apple's obsession with promoting Game Apps, Apple Arcade, & Little Kid Apps.

2.) Will drive down prices; competition "always" drives down prices !

3.) Will enable select third-party App Stores that focus on NON-Game Apps to blossom !

4.) Top NON-Game App Developers will be in High-Demand, with the best making ~$50M USD per year, just like top athletes here in the States.


Dec 9th could be the very-start of a (long-overdue) Renaissance period in App Discovery !

Apple is doomed, but Epic's strategy is flawed !

Apple have the sort of money that many countries would love to have. They are not doomed and will not go bankrupt anytime in the next 50 years.

 

[skardvin]

So he wants to eliminate competition and have one monopolistic app store.

Yup, the "Epic Games App Store." ?

 

[Abazigal]

Yup, the "Epic Games App Store."

Which was always his endgame right from the very start. Not to benefit users or empower developers, but to be able to offer his own App Store on iOS devices and charge developers a cut (which goes directly to his pocket).

 

[PC_tech]

Yes it does.

No, no it doesn't

 

[rezwits]

In all seriousness the current state of tv streaming is a joke.

With so many different services have different exclusives it’s more expensive than ever if you need multiple providers.

If I want to catch a full football season I’d require Sky + Sky Sports, BTSports, Amazon Prime.

Then there’s shows only available on Netflix, then those only available on NowTV and only available on Disney+.

It's only a joke, if you have a family with say 2+ kids, then yes it's a joke. But if you are single it's great!

 

[laptech]

Which was always his endgame right from the very start. Not to benefit users or empower developers, but to be able to offer his own App Store on iOS devices and charge developers a cut (which goes directly to his pocket).

You appear to be talking in facts rather than opinion. Please tell us how you know it was his end game right from the start. Did he say so? if so where did he say it because I do not remember seeing any article where he talked about his 'endgame'.

As for your second sentance, is that not what Apple does, have their own app store where they take a cut from the developers.

 

[Manzanito]

So to go back to my original point, having a single App Store on iOS would give me fewer choices, yes, but I would personally rather have fewer, more meaningful choices. Rather than having more choices on paper, but none of them represent a better user experience for me as the end user.

I can see why someone would prefer things stay how they are. I won’t use third party stores even if they’re available, but don’t mind others using them.

 

[Abazigal]

You appear to be talking in facts rather than opinion. Please tell us how you know it was his end game right from the start. Did he say so? if so where did he say it because I do not remember seeing any article where he talked about his 'endgame'.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463630510500892674

Tim Sweeney himself basically admits to it in response to John Gruber’s tweet.

I have not gone back to sift through all the evidence submitted for the lawsuit, but I think we can take him at his word here.

As for your second sentance, is that not what Apple does, have their own app store where they take a cut from the developers.

Of course. Just like what Nintendo, Xbox and PlayStation have done. They all have their own hardware, which they use to offer software using their own App Store and charge developers a 30% cut.

Should I be allowed to host my own App Store on a Nintendo switch where I would presumably be able to keep 100% of the proceeds from my own games, as well as host other people’s apps and charge them a commission of sales?

I can see why someone would prefer things stay how they are. I won’t use third party stores even if they’re available, but don’t mind others using them.

Nothing wrong with that. I am simply sharing why I am satisfied with there being just one master App Store for iOS under Apple’s jurisdiction, because I value the control this afford Apple, and that benefits they accord me in return.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

The problem with taxing billionaires that hard is that you kill the goose that lays the golden egg as it were and who will pick up the slack? Certainly not the people complaining about them that's for sure.
I agree they should pay their fair share of tax but depends on how you tax them.

No.

$100 million as a maximum on personal wealth is massive anyway.

Anything above that should be towards re-investment and taxation.

These people have gone nuts and their greed has become a danger to everyone just trying to make daily bread. They hoard every resource possible, physical and digital, and make life more expensive for everyone.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Tim Sweeney himself basically admits to it in response to John Gruber’s tweet.

Wow. “I’ve said all along that I want to be the MONOPOLY!!! Why should THEY be the Monopoly JUST because they designed the hardware, created the OS, created the programming API’s, provided support to millions of developers (in Epic’s case lots of FREE support) AND spent the money to produce, market, ship and sell BILLIONS of devices! We made Fortnite! Which is, in my assessment pretty much equal to that.”

 

[laptech]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1463630510500892674

Tim Sweeney himself basically admits to it in response to John Gruber’s tweet.

I have not gone back to sift through all the evidence submitted for the lawsuit, but I think we can take him at his word here.



Of course. Just like what Nintendo, Xbox and PlayStation have done. They all have their own hardware, which they use to offer software using their own App Store and charge developers a 30% cut.

Should I be allowed to host my own App Store on a Nintendo switch where I would presumably be able to keep 100% of the proceeds from my own games, as well as host other people’s apps and charge them a commission of sales?



Nothing wrong with that. I am simply sharing why I am satisfied with there being just one master App Store for iOS under Apple’s jurisdiction, because I value the control this afford Apple, and that benefits they accord me in return.

This is what happens when people are unable to think for themselves and let others do the thinking for them. All Tim Sweeny has suggested is that there should be one store for everything. He also said that he would like software store within iOS and android. He has never said he want's his company to be the one to run the store, he never said everything else is to close, he never said what his end game is. Again, people are focusing too much on the misguided words on others, playing lip service to everything they say without themselves putting their own brain in gear and thinking for themselves, in my opinion.

 

[Abazigal]

This is what happens when people are unable to think for themselves and let others do the thinking for them. All Tim Sweeny has suggested is that there should be one store for everything. He also said that he would like software store within iOS and android. He has never said he want's his company to be the one to run the store, he never said everything else is to close, he never said what his end game is. Again, people are focusing too much on the misguided words on others, playing lip service to everything they say without themselves putting their own brain in gear and thinking for themselves, in my opinion.

Which was never my point.

He made all that drama over trying to open up the iOS app store, on the premise that it would benefit both the end user and developers. Replete with a variation of Apple’s own 1984 video.

In the end, what he really just wants is to be able to have his own epic store on iOS devices, where he can keep 100% of IAP revenue, and charge developers 18% for hosting their apps.

This is why I have been calling him out since the very start. I don’t begrudge him trying to break Apple’s stranglehold on iOS. Just be honest and admit that at the end of the day, it’s all about himself and the bottom line. Hardly the messiah he was painting himself out to be. Especially when end users are just trading one App Store for another.

Not to mention the potential harm to smaller developers now that Apple has all but won the lawsuit, and doesn’t really have any incentive left to make further concessions to them.

Epic’s reckless gamble has been disastrous for the developer economy. He claims to want one thing, and his actions indicate the exact opposite.

 

[PC_tech]

Which was never my point.

He made all that drama over trying to open up the iOS app store, on the premise that it would benefit both the end user and developers. Replete with a variation of Apple’s own 1984 video.

In the end, what he really just wants is to be able to have his own epic store on iOS devices, where he can keep 100% of IAP revenue, and charge developers 18% for hosting their apps.

This is why I have been calling him out since the very start. I don’t begrudge him trying to break Apple’s stranglehold on iOS. Just be honest and admit that at the end of the day, it’s all about himself and the bottom line. Hardly the messiah he was painting himself out to be. Especially when end users are just trading one App Store for another.

Not to mention the potential harm to smaller developers now that Apple has all but won the lawsuit, and doesn’t really have any incentive left to make further concessions to them.

Epic’s reckless gamble has been disastrous for the developer economy. He claims to want one thing, and his actions indicate the exact opposite.

You just are calling him out because he attacked your precious, that’s all it really is ?

 

[Abazigal]

You just are calling him out because he attacked your precious, that’s all it really is

That I have never denied.

It doesn’t mean that Epic is somehow automatically in the right, just because Apple is in the spotlight. There is somehow just this propensity for so many people to instinctively slag on Apple and assume the worst of them just because.

The past decade has simply been littered with too many bad takes about Apple that have aged pretty badly and it’s embarrassing just how wrong the naysayers were in hindsight.

In a way, I suppose it’s a blessing in disguise that it was Tim Sweeney bringing forth this lawsuit, misguided as it was. It certainly doesn’t hurt that Epic itself is no angel, and it’s no small developer being trampled upon by Apple, that’s for sure.

 

[laptech]

The biggest problem for both Google and Apple is if Epic decide to say 'sod both of you' and go it alone in creating their own app store showing users how to sideload the store app to get it on their android or iOS device and undercut both Apple and Google in their pricing. There is nothing stopping developers using the tools both Apple and Google provide for desiging apps, they just don't upload them to Apple or Googles store but instead upload them to Epic's.

Epic is the one company who has the money and resources to do it. Apple and Google started off small and grew over time. So could Epic.

 

[I7guy]

You just are calling him out because he attacked your precious, that’s all it really is ?

No. Sweeney is talking from both sides of his mouth. What he says he cares about and what he really cares about are two different things, imo.