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Why do their marginal costs matter?
You may want to read up on the fixed costs vs. variable/marginal cost characteristics of natural monopolies (a term you’re not too shy to use yourself).
When people buy products do they usually want to know the company’s marginal costs?
Probably not. Yet fixed vs. variable and marginal costs are the answer to your suggestion of “creating more competition”.

Well, they are creating more competition in stores - but not in operating systems. Cause having only few operating systems is quite efficient,
Except for the word monopoly, which I would replace with “null”, “except for apple being a digital store operator”, do we agree. Is this the twilight zone?
There is a market for iOS apps - or multiple markets for different kinds of iOS apps, e.g. iOS music streaming apps. And Apple is - or used to be - a monopoly seller to consumers on those markets. Very simple.

years ago did a management course.
the only useful part was how to disengage from an argument.
If that was the only useful part for you, I’m not disagreeing.
 
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You may want to read up on the fixed costs vs. variable/marginal cost characteristics of natural monopolies (a term you’re not too shy to use yourself).
So I repeat why do you care about the marginal costs? It’s not relevant. A company always has a monopoly with its products.
No - but fixed vs. variable and marginal costs are the answer to your suggestion of “creating more competition” that you have made repeatedly.
No it’s not. Creating more competition to use the word you like, duopoly, would be to create “more platforms. Not busting open a company with bad regulations.
There is a market for iOS apps - or multiple markets for different kinds of iOS apps, e.g. iOS music streaming apps. And Apple is - or used to be - a monopoly seller to consumers on those markets. Very simple.[…]
What is simple is that apple created, owns and manages the iOS App Store.
 
Apple pay annoys the banks endlessly because they sit in the middle and the banks no longer know (and can leverage) the info on your purchases. so much more secure and limits data sharing/selling.

That is not true. Banks even then have enough data even them to understand if they want, to whom and by whom something was bought. But they are regulated, meaning that there are strict legal measures on how they can handle such data. They can't legally sell any of that data, people would go to jail for financial crimes being committed if that was the case. Furthermore, they can't just change policies as they please.

But even if it was true, you are arguing that an unregulated business, meaning legally unscrutinized on such matters, provide better safety to its customers than a highly regulated business, well because as you say it has a long marketing stand on Privacy. Now that is totally mind-blowing madness.

Honestly, I really try hard to understand other peoples point of view, try to understand their motivations, what are the values at play. With the hopes that, there must be some intrinsically positive, but the deeper I dig sometimes the more ... I find.

PS: I'm not arguing that regulations over internet connected devices should be as strict as around banking of medicine. I just found funny that someone was actually able to make a bridge across this and have Apple come up on top in terms of privacy and the protection of their customers properties ... when the first act of business is ... "wanna play? give me your devices and cash register".
 
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…and developers are creating a massive demand for iPhone sold.

Ya, no, absolutely not true, you are thinking of gaming consoles.

Please provide citation for this claim that devs create platform demand.

Devs are not creating Apple hardware sales, nor Android. They are merely producing content for (cashing in on)
an available platform. You act as if there are "can't live without" apps that are exclusive to iPhone, driving hardware sales over other platforms, largely there aren't. Most of the exclusive apps are either Apple's stock apps or Android's.

Apple top 10 free games:

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Google Play top 10 free games:

Screenshot 2024-08-19 at 6.56.03 PM.png



All 10 of Apples top 10 free games are available on Google Play for Android, and vice versa, so don't act like devs are driving hardware sales for either platform, that is a ridiculous statement.

If 6, 7 or 8 of the Apple top 10 were exclusive to iOS you might have a point but the fact is, there are none.

Devs are producing content for viable platforms, simple as that. This is the age old reason why most AAA games aren't available on Macs, Macs are not a viable enough platform in terms of performance or profitability for the studios to code for.
 

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Of course it is. the leading reason of this piece of hardware flopping is there are no apps for it. Who wants to "be a partner" to an extortion scheme?
There was a time there was no apps for the iPhone as well. It was also very expensive too.
Seemed to turn out so well in fact that new laws have been written to curb their success (to put it mildly),....
 
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Apple terminated their developer's account so they could not update the macOS version.
What does the developer account have to do with macOS? That was iOS/iPad OS, not macOS.
They also never distributed it via the Mac AppStore. There is still the EPIC game launcher that works just fine with macOS on M chips too. So this is bogus.
 
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Again. Everyone agrees Apple has to follow the EU's rules (or, in some crazy alternate universe that isn't this one, they can leave the EU).

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the EU mandates an encryption backdoor.

Having worked with companies developing software solutions had the pleasure to work with many Industry and business contexts.

One of them the pharma industry, case in case API manufacturers. Have a look at 21CFRPart11 adopted and created by the FDA.

Just a little part …


Many software developers that work on these industries know what I’m talking about.

We can also talk about Banking and many other stuff in this context.

Honestly, the DMA regulation depth and complexity, both technical and processual is kindergarten stuff. Who does not understand it enough to be compliant it because it does not want to.

Has for encryption back doors, don’t think that will be the case at all. Whether you believe it or not the EU is probably the closest you will get to American values concerning persons and enterprise liberty and vice versa.

But it seams that Apple has some experience in China in such contexts …


Cheers.
 
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Devs are not creating Apple hardware sales, nor Android. They are merely producing content for (cashing in on)
an available platform.

The litmus test of such assertion is what would be of the iPhone with no Apps but the ones built by Apple. An iPod with phone capabilities and an Internet Browser?.It would be something, but not even close to the 18% of the planets population. Take the Internet market space out … would be 0%.

I think any person in good will would conclude that value flows both ways.

The immediate question then is, how much of it goes one way or the other. But that is the wrong question to ask. It’s impossible to ascertain given how intangible are these things and how fluid are the borders between each of them.

The right question is … do we want the Internet market and most of it driven by it to be controlled by device OEMs and their App Stores on the back? Or should the Internet market keep on being primary open business space where anyone can have customers and do business directly (self market).

Apple is systematically expressing the benefits to businesss and citizens for all of it to be controlled by OEMs such as her. Big market places competing at the back of devices … the rest, their customers and suppliers. That is for sure interesting considering how different is currently the dynamics of the market.

So, what are the downsides of OEM devices & App Stores like patrols bordering the Internet market place and have all of us accessing everything through their ruling? After all they created the devices and the OS for it, right?

Any worthwhile downside?
 
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Suppose you game with your partner? I've done that. Suppose you game with or family/friends and this is part of your social contact with those people because they do not live locally? I've done that too, yet I am no where near unproductive, unhealthy or anti-social.

My point was your post seemed ill-defined and unnecessarily judgy. I can think of many vices more harmful than gaming.

Again, your opinion, you are entitled to it but you cast a pretty wide net of condemnation.

Just because cocaine is worse than gaming, doesn't make gaming any less unhealthy or antisocial.

But why spend so much time gaming with your wife when you could do something productive like going to the gym or going for a run? Why spend so much time gaming with your family when you could do something productive like start a side business with some of them and use that money to pay for some memorable trips with them? Why depend on a major source of social contact with friends being in a game rather than go out and be social in real life with your friends, and if you can't because of distance, go make new ones?

It just makes no sense to me. I understand what you are saying, but there's no arguing that gaming costs money, is unhealthy (you can't argue that sitting doing nothing for more than an hour with a bag of Doritos and a 2 liter of Mountain Dew is not unhealthy), and it does lead to anti-social behavior because no matter what you say, the studies point to the fact that there's no replacement for in-person connection.
 
what would be the iPhones with no Apps but the one built by Apple

In a world where there were no 3rd party apps available on any platform? The iPhone would do just fine, perhaps as well as it does now, perhaps better or worse, but that is impossible to determine. The point is apps don't create demand for one platform or another because they are generally available to both.

I think any person in good will would conclude that value flows both ways.

Of course it does. Apple provides the huge customer base that spends on apps. Devs provide the apps. In theory the device can live on its own, due to stock apps, while apps cannot live without devices.

So, what are the downsides of OEM devices & App Stores like wells bordering the Internet market place and all of us accessing everything through their ruling?

My argument is we don't live in that world. Apple has a "walled garden" or "one stop shop" approach with iOS while Android has a more open, alt-store world. I would argue that this is great, both are different, let people choose what they want. If people find value in what Apple is doing, like I do, Apple will flourish. If Apple is too restrictive towards the alt-store crowd then they will begin to lose market share and will need to adjust, this is the market functioning as it should. Legislation, IMHO, is not the way to go here.

If you want real change at Apple, vote with your $$, leave Apple and tell them why. If there are enough of you leaving for Android, they will change, if not then the market wants what Apple is selling.
 
In a world where there were no 3rd party apps available on any platform? The iPhone would do just fine, perhaps as well as it does now, perhaps better or worse, but that is impossible to determine
Agree. If Android didn’t have native apps either, the world of (not-as-smart-but-still-smart) smartphones would be dominated by Windows Phones from made by Microsoft and Blackberry. Or someone else. If no phone had native apps, i.e. no other phone had that competitive advantage over iPhones, the iPhone might do just fine - but that’s just speculation
The point is apps don't create demand for one platform or another because they are generally available to both.
If you prefer, they don’t create much “new” demand.
But they’re a necessity to maintain demand and stay in business against Android (and vice versa).
Any mobile OS that unilaterally stops having native apps will quickly be toast.

In theory the device can live on its own, due to stock apps, while apps cannot live without devices.
Technically and in theory, yes.
But not practically in the market.
If Apple is too restrictive towards the alt-store crowd then they will begin to lose market share and will need to adjust, this is the market functioning as it should
Not necessarily, when there is only one relevant alternative OS - whose developer (and most important provider of bundled apps/services) has been criticised for their data collection and customer profiling.

It may not be a total market failure, but the market for smartphone OS is constrained. To the point where it becomes a choice of a lesser evil among two alternatives, for people like me.
 
Having worked with companies developing software solutions had the pleasure to work with many Industry and business contexts.

One of them the pharma industry, case in case API manufacturers. Have a look at 21CFRPart11 adopted and created by the FDA.

Just a little part …


Many software developers that work on these industries know what I’m talking about.

We can also talk about Banking and many other stuff in this context.

Honestly, the DMA regulation depth and complexity, both technical and processual is kindergarten stuff. Who does not understand it enough to be compliant it because it does not want to.

Has for encryption back doors, don’t think that will be the case at all. Whether you believe it or not the EU is probably the closest you will get to American values concerning persons and enterprise liberty and vice versa.

But it seams that Apple has some experience in China in such contexts …


Cheers.
Apple if indeed compromised were made wont be the first company to do so in order to do business in a foreign country. BlackBerry made some compromises in order to do business in Saudi Arabia.
 
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You need a dev account to sign and notarize your app to work with apples gatekeeper in macOS
This is something you can bypass. I do this all the time. Even for apps that are trusted. I have to jump through hoops to get fully installed with the rights they need. Don't tell me it's easier to install malware on a mac than it would be for EPIC to provide Fortnite (or any other game for that matter) with or without a developer account.
 
Apple if indeed compromised were made wont be the first company to do so in order to do business in a foreign country. BlackBerry made some compromises in order to do business in Saudi Arabia.

Have not said it was the first to compromise on user Privacy, but you have to admit that it pretty much put the song book in the drawer for its own gain.

I think just shows what we all know, that such premisses go as long are good for profits ... and it will not be the last. Yet, the DMA is not concerned with Apple compromising its privacy policies and here we are in a "bloody" carnaval.

The only way to safely protect users properties and privacy is through governmental regulation ... make no mistake. Everything is as volatile as the profit wind blows. As it should be for a company and its shareholders.
 
Have not said it was the first to compromise on user Privacy, but you have to admit that it pretty much put the song book in the drawer for its own gain.

I think just shows what we all know, that such premisses go as long are good for profits ...
well no. Look at the compromise in the EU.
and it will not be the last.
I find nothing wrong with companies doing what it takes. I know some do, but ymmv. As I said, many companies have to be agile enough to do an international business.
Yet, the DMA is not concerned with Apple compromising its privacy policies and here we are in a "bloody" carnaval.
The DMA is lousy legislation and apple had to take it or leave the EU.
The only way to safely protect users properties and privacy is through governmental regulation ...
sure. There should be a set of standards for privacy across the board for every company that collects user info. But alas in real life it’s not like that.
make no mistake. Everything is as volatile as the profit wind blows. As it should be for a company and its shareholders.
Nobody said otherwise. But that doesn’t mean companies will comprise on items illegal, immoral or unethical.
 
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Apple if indeed compromised were made wont be the first company to do so in order to do business in a foreign country. BlackBerry made some compromises in order to do business in Saudi Arabia.

So it did.

well no. Look at the compromise in the EU.

The DMA has little to do with Privacy. For that matter you should check GDPR legislation.

I find nothing wrong with companies doing what it takes. I know some do, but ymmv. As I said, many companies have to be agile enough to do an international business.

Neither do I. That was not the point. The reality is, that "flags" are carried by these entities as long as it gets the most profits. When some “flag” does not suit the profits they they hand it lower and lower until it’s dropped. The carefully curated user Privacy messages is fully profit driven. A way to justify to the public the App Stores on the back of their devices. Ready to get handed the cash registers of their own or who ever payed their salary … one can always buy stocks right?

Its the theme of the day, a very powerful word.

The DMA is lousy legislation and apple had to take it or leave the EU.

It's only bad because it seams to be against some companies interests. Real Privacy has nothing to do with those interests. Neither does the DMA.

The DMA is concerned with keeping the Internet market open and fair to people and businesses, without mandatory Internet border controllers of this sort baked into network devices.

These devices would be worth very little without being part of such a network. Meaning although it’s true that the innovations these devices drive make the Internet more useful to the common man. It’s also true that it’s usefulness and profitability depend on the then Internet and its openness.

It seams that Apple hasn’t taken DMA compliance seriously yet. It seams that the proposals yet under review.

sure. There should be a set of standards for privacy across the board for every company that collects user info. But alas in real life it’s not like that.

Well, there are ... and more to come. Real life requires civil participation of course.

Nobody said otherwise. But that doesn’t mean companies will comprise on items illegal, immoral or unethical.

Absolutely. Well, at least most of them. Real life is not like that ... Some believe that the trick is to get away with it.

As I've said, it's not the job of companies to police society or other companies. That is the job of democratic governamental organizations. Governments should equip themselves to properly do so. Through laws and the ability to enforce them.

The job of companies is to generate wealth as context allows. I personally have little moral judgement on how it is done as long as it is legal. Much as you I suppose.

Democracies only work with true separation of powers. Each kind of power keeping the other in check, respecting the role of each other. Of course some will try to make the other weaker, for instance attacking taxation. Because with less tax, means less resources to policie business practices, with less resources to enforce the laws, the more one kind of power can get away with whatever. It's that simple. But governments can also try and make other powers weaker illegitimacy weaker, through legislation, but these have the elections to keep them in check. Oh than we have the justice power, well also under attack …

Anyway the way I see it, it's not by chance that the current US problems regarding governance rise with the emergence of trillion dollar tech companies. The word on the "street" is quite anti any form of government, let the wallets and the stock decide ... it's in their way. It's not by chance that many so many posts are charged with anti government feelings. Oh, than we have the attacks to the justice power by millionaire ex Presidents … will se how this goes.

There is some of that in the EU, but by no means at same scale, I feel. So much so, that the concept of one actually defending governments ability to produce laws regulating companies, seams to be am alien concept to some US posters .... commies ideias, Robin Hood stuff. Actually read a poster stating that governments should have no funding. Could not believe it, but there you go. Thes are the same entities that say that the DMA is bad.

Some ideologues seam to actually believe that the government should be a private company. You know, suffrage with wallets and all that jazz. A new orthography ...

There seams to be a deeper agenda going on. A new order of things. The full unchecked power of the wallet.
 
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