Epic Games Store Launches on iPhone in EU, Brings Fortnite Back to iOS

[AppliedMicro]

Honestly, what I think the most likely result of all of this is:

• CTF on all apps with an exemption for X number of downloads (MAYBE with an exemption for Apps that are truly, 100% free, but my guess is the EU will not allow that).

I agree that it‘s a likely result: the EU allowing Apple a “core fee” that doesn’t give their own store (at legacy terms) an unfair advantage.

And I think it’d be unlikely for third-party developers to “eat” (bear) these costs for their users rather than passing them on.

That would effectively render the whole iPhone experience and software platform a “subscription“ product. Precisely what Apple, ideally, would want to make it anyway.

So if they’re as greedy honest and courageous™ about it, I’ll say: go ahead!
Price it according to what net value you believe to deliver to developers and vice versa.

 

[surferfb]

Apple has to follow the EU rules in the EU. It is that simple!

Oh, really? 😏

Again. Everyone agrees Apple has to follow the EU's rules (or, in some crazy alternate universe that isn't this one, they can leave the EU).

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the EU mandates an encryption backdoor.

 

[TSE]

As my dad would say, “In your #%&$*! opinion.“

I guess one could also have the opinion TV and reading are wastes of time because they lead to non-productive, unhealthy antisocial behavior. Who cares if someone flames you for your opinion? You’re entitled to it. I appreciate that you explained how you think.

Thanks for being cool about it. Appreciate you.

What an absolutely gross generalization. You are of course entitled to your opinion but damn.

Can you specifically define "gaming" and "l33t g4m3r$"?

Perhaps try to be a bit more specific next time, as an example: "people who game 20 hours a day are unproductive, unhealthy and anti-social". At least that version could be argued to have merit, but even then, what about professional game players or youtube/twitch gamers that make bank? To those folks it is a job and some get paid very well.

Anyone that games for more than 30 minutes to an hour a day. Why wouldn't you use that time to do something like go to the gym, practice a martial art, spend time with your partner, family, friends, etc.?

 

[icanhazmac]

Anyone that games for more than 30 minutes to an hour a day. Why wouldn't you use that time to do something like go to the gym, practice a martial art, spend time with your partner, family, friends, etc.?

Suppose you game with your partner? I've done that. Suppose you game with or family/friends and this is part of your social contact with those people because they do not live locally? I've done that too, yet I am no where near unproductive, unhealthy or anti-social.

My point was your post seemed ill-defined and unnecessarily judgy. I can think of many vices more harmful than gaming.

Again, your opinion, you are entitled to it but you cast a pretty wide net of condemnation.

 

[surferfb]

I agree that it‘s a likely result: the EU allowing Apple a “core fee” that doesn’t give their own store (at legacy terms) an unfair advantage.

I would argue that “explicitly charging a fee that impacts those trying to freeload off of your IP, while bundling that fee into the commission we charge for selling apps on our store” isn’t an unfair advantage. But I’m also confident the EU will agree with you, not me.

So if they’re as greedy honest and courageous™ about it, I’ll say: go ahead!
Price it according to what net value you believe to deliver to developers and vice versa.

The major companies who can absorb the fee will absorb the fee, and the small developers and people with new ideas are the ones who will get hurt. Consumers will investigate even fewer non-native apps than they already do, and ironically the EU’s regulation to increase competition will have actually just further entrenched existing players while making it harder for new apps and services to compete.

 

[AppliedMicro]

those trying to freeload off of your IP

Apple is just as much freeloading on the IP of their thousands of third-party developers by charging them the commissions they do (or want to). It’s no one-way street. Apple is just in a better position to play them off against each other.

Consumers will investigate even fewer non-native apps than they already do, and ironically the EU’s regulation to increase competition will have actually just further entrenched existing players while making it harder for new apps and services to compet

Let’s see about that.

Don’t be surprised about consumer and media reactions. This may well be the straw to break the proverbial camel‘s back and create an unprecedented backlash against subscriptionification of sh7tst0rm proportions we haven’t seen yet.

All it may take to get the avalanche rolling down on Apple is a concerted change of pricing by a handful of high-profile developers.

And keep in mind that competitors will want to capitalise on it as well. I’d be surprised if this turns out to become another Samsung “ridiculing Apple today for the bandwagon we’re going to jump on tomorrow, too”.

 

[OrcaAreCute]

So why did EPIC remove the game from MacOS? They can do whatever they want on that, and yet they took it away?
It had nothing to do with the fight over iOS AppStore.

Apple terminated their developer's account so they could not update the macOS version.

 

[OrcaAreCute]

As for the vision pro. That's not even part of the conversation.

Of course it is. the leading reason of this piece of hardware flopping is there are no apps for it. Who wants to "be a partner" to an extortion scheme?

 

[surferfb]

Of course it is. the leading reason of this piece of hardware flopping is there are no apps for it. Who wants to "be a partner" to an extortion scheme?

So the market works? Developers aren’t forced to develop for Apple’s platforms? If they don’t like the terms and conditions they can make apps for Apples competitors but not Apple? All without the DMA’s help?

That’s just crazy talk!

 

[surferfb]

Apple is just as much freeloading on the IP of their thousands of third-party developers by charging them the commissions they do (or want to). It’s no one-way street. Apple is just in a better position to play them off against each other.

“Apple are the real freeloaders by creating a massive market for developers’ services, giving developers tools to take advantage of said market, and then giving developers 70-85% of the money they make after using Apple’s tools to sell to Apple’s customers in Apple’s market” is certainly a take.

Don’t be surprised about consumer and media reactions. This may well be the straw to break the proverbial camel‘s back and create an unprecedented backlash against subscriptionification of ****st0rm proportions we haven’t seen yet.

We’ll see indeed. I suspect Apple is better at marketing and communications than the EU, and we will find out the DMA is much less popular with its citizens when they see its true cost, but I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again!

 

[wbeasley]

By the same token, we can’t get rid of Apple and their intermediary role soon enough. If I’m buying my apps directly from a developer, the developer only receives the data and the preferences I provide to them. Whereas Apple receives the data and my preferences on all my app and digital purchases. And not only that - but also contacts, calendar events, iCloud files, my music library, bookmarks synced to iCloud etc.

How about if Apple suddenly decides that they’ll sell my previously private data to other companies data, so they can market stuff to me and see what I’m interested in and sites I visit.

Apple have a much more complete and all-encompassing digital profile on me and you than any other third-party developer (possibly except Google) will ever have.


Yeah, they actually should be!
With my consent, of course.
I’d be more than happy to be less locked in by Apple.

No.

Let me control that door and decide who gets in or not. Just as when I’m renting a place or buying a house: I get to decide who gets to enter through that door to visit me. Not the building’s doorman - let alone the door manufacturer!


I do acknowledge the utility of having a one-stop shop for your app downloads and purchases.
But where Apple could have implemented a fair system and competitive fees that developers can‘t refuse, they got greedy. So I‘ve got little sympathy for them.

"we can’t get rid of Apple and their intermediary role soon enough."

now this is madness...

Apple pay annoys the banks endlessly because they sit in the middle and the banks no longer know (and can leverage) the info on your purchases. so much more secure and limits data sharing/selling.

I'm tired of your posting "what if Apple selling info..." rubbish.
Apple have long positioned themselves on privacy. Even when they could have made money.
That's the key difference. Apple doesnt treat your data as the business.
STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS that try to justify your stance that are demonstrably untrue.
It's the old FUD resurfaced to scare people. "what if..."

Renting a place is nothing like an AppStore/iOS environment so that's a poor analogy.

We disagree, AGAIN, on what is a fair system and competitive fees.
15-30% is both fair and competitive.
End of the day, what either of us think doesnt matter.
If Apple want to run their business with those fees in place, the market will determine if it is.
Customers either buy things or dont.
App Devs either make apps or provide services or dont.

It worked that way long before the EU got involved. Very successfully for many years...

And you can't "get greedy" when it is the same or better than it was initially.

 

[wbeasley]

Of course it is. the leading reason of this piece of hardware flopping is there are no apps for it. Who wants to "be a partner" to an extortion scheme?

defamatory words... i'd tread carefully

you are clearly saying Apple are acting criminally since extortion is a crime...

 

[OrcaAreCute]

“Apple are the real freeloaders by creating a massive market for developers’ services

They didn't create the AppStore. Saurik did.

 

[surferfb]

They didn't create the market. They stole the idea from Saurik

Apple didn’t invent the iPhone and iOS and Saurik invented the idea of a digital App Store is also certainly a take.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple are the real freeloaders by creating a massive market for developers’ services

…and developers are creating a massive demand for iPhones sold.

I suspect Apple is better at marketing and communications than the EU

Judging how they’re fumbling it with their DMA compliance, I don’t think so. They’re time and again giving the impression of snubbing the rules - until they’re forced to give in by the EU (example: their refusal of allowing Epic in) or by developers outcries (CTF thresholds),

Apple pay annoys the banks endlessly because they sit in the middle and the banks no longer know (and can leverage) the info on your purchases. so much more secure and limits data sharing/selling.

I don’t know what you”re on about!?
Banks get transaction data anyway.
And monetising customer data by selling it isn”t really a big thing in Europe - unlike other regions such as the U.S. And maybe Australia? It”s not a real public issue. Not even in privacy-conscious Germany,

I'm tired of your posting "what if Apple selling info..." rubbish.
Apple have long positioned themselves on privacy. Even when they could have made money.
That's the key difference. Apple doesnt treat your data as the business.

Yes - and so has the EU.

It”s no more or less rubbish as your “how about if the EU suddenly decided” insinuations above. A EU that us repeatedly criticised for their restrictive stance on data usage and privacy that’s claimed to stifle innovation.

If the EU can take such a dramatic U-turn on privacy, as you claimed, so can Apple. Or (likely) not.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Oh, I’m getting the rolling emoji treatment again.

 

[surferfb]

It”s no more or less rubbish as your “how about if the EU suddenly decided” insinuations above. A EU that us repeatedly criticised for their restrictive stance on data usage and privacy that’s claimed to stifle innovation.

The EU already did this when they forced alternate app stores.

 

[AppliedMicro]

The EU already did this when they forced alternate app stores.

Quite the contrary.

Alternative App Store can collect less data than Apple’s Store does.
And they have less data to aggregate on me than Apple already has.

 

[wbeasley]

…and developers are creating a massive demand for iPhone sold.

Judging how they’re fumbling it with their DMA compliance, I don’t think so. They’re time and again giving the impression of snubbing the rules - until they’re forced to give in by the EU (example: their refusal of allowing Epic in) or by developers outcries (CTF thresholds),

I don’t know what you”re in about!?
Banks get transaction data anyway.
And monetising customer data by selling it isn”t really a big thing in Europe - unlike other regions such as the U.S. And maybe Australia? It”s not a real public issue. Not even in privacy-conscious Germany,

Yes - and so has the EU.

It”s no more or less rubbish as your “how about if the EU suddenly decided” insinuations above. A EU that us repeatedly criticised for their restrictive stance on data usage and privacy that’s claimed to stifle innovation.

If the EU can take such a dramatic U-turn on privacy, as you claimed, so can Apple. Or (likely) not.

So you seemed to have missed the irony when I posted the "what if" response to your verbage...

I was pointing out then that you are great at making "what ifs" to scare people when it suits you but how would you feel if those what ifs affected your core positive use of iOS.

there's a huge difference in pointing out how self centred your continued stance is and asking you to put yourself in other users shoes. something you are unwilling to do it seems. the EU forced changes are all "up" for you. other user views obviously differ.

it's heartening to read so few EU supportive posts from a small yet vocal group. on a tech site.
i've enjoyed many posts from other people, learnt a lot and expanded my knowledge from reading things and direct messages.

i have faith that Apple will continue to do what they have always done.
so arguing over this (for me) is now at an end.

 

[OrcaAreCute]

it's heartening to read so few EU supportive posts from a small yet vocal group.

They are busy playing Delta and Retroarch on their iPhones. Their work is done.

 

[OrcaAreCute]

defamatory words... i'd tread carefully

you are clearly saying Apple are acting criminally since extortion is a crime...

lol. read the whole thread. I was repeating the words of a podcaster to make a point.

 

[I7guy]

PS:

Given how Apple know iOS best and can (do!) operate at truly huge economies of scale, with minuscule marginal costs,

Why do their marginal costs matter? When people buy products do they usually want to know the company’s marginal costs?

I‘d argue that Apple being a monopoly digital store operator and deliverer of apps may be most cost-efficient.

And having to deal with just a single intermediary benefits consumers too, doesn’t it?

Plus… I’m not sure about its discovery and search part functionality - but the actual purchasing experience (and for in-app purchases) on Apple’s App Storem, ore specifically, the transaction handling of it is very smooth and convenient, isn’t it?

Except for the word monopoly, which I would replace with “null”, “except for apple being a digital store operator”, do we agree. Is this the twilight zone?

 

[wbeasley]

Why do their marginal costs matter? When people buy products do they usually want to know the company’s marginal costs?

Except for the word monopoly, which I would replace with “null”, “except for apple being a digital store operator”, do we agree. Is this the twilight zone?

is a lot more sense to just cut out the spin words and get back to the core stuff. easier to agree then

perhaps thats the way i will skim comments from now on... thanks for the sanity tip!

 

[wbeasley]

Why do their marginal costs matter? When people buy products do they usually want to know the company’s marginal costs?

Except for the word monopoly, which I would replace with “null”, “except for apple being a digital store operator”, do we agree. Is this the twilight zone?

years ago did a management course.
the only useful part was how to disengage from an argument.

the tip? agree with them (on something). takes the wind from their sails.
Fogging it was called if you want to read further...

very handy for people who just need to keep engaging and go off on tangents. Sound familiar?

 

[wbeasley]

lol. read the whole thread. I was repeating the words of a podcaster to make a point.

repeating things is no defense.you should know better...