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Epic Games Unlikely to Win Injunction in Ongoing Fortnite Battle With Apple, Jury Trial Possible

soyazul said:
they should offer to sell all the Fortnite objects inside the Mac version without the apple store tax, and with the 30% for the iOS version.... Fortnite wins, and Apple also wins cause they are promoting playing on Mac...
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Except for the fact that games run like complete trash on Mac because they are overpriced garbage.
 
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easy4lif said:
U mean like among us or fall guys
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Yet fortn
az431 said:
The day that Epic decided that 70% wasn't enough.
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If you actually do your research you would know that Epic games only take 12% of the cut from games released on their store (as opposed to the 30% taken by the likes of Apple).

So if anything they are more consumer / indie developer friendly.

I think people are missing the whole point of what Epic are trying to achieve.
 
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Megamassiveapplefanboy said:
Yet fortn

If you actually do your research you would know that Epic games only take 12% of the cut from games released on their store (as opposed to the 30% taken by the likes of Apple).

So if anything they are more consumer / indie developer friendly.

I think people are missing the whole point of what Epic are trying to achieve.
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Epic is trying to increase their profits. That’s it. Everything else is just spin. They don’t give a crap about indie developers or you.

PS Do some research and tell us what is included in that 12%.
 
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Megamassiveapplefanboy said:
And Apple is also loosing a lot of money also from this :)
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Welcome to Macrumours, you made a great choice when you decided to sign up today, always good to have more Apple fans on the forums
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MikeTEC2183 said:
android is a free license and is protected by open sources licensing and is built on Linux which is made by Linus tovald who created it and gave it away for free. your silly to think any one pays for linux or could sell it with out fundamentally changing the way open source licenses work. why was Microsoft not allowed to include office or an internet browser with out antitrust issues and then the subsequent split due to its monopolistic practices. yeah your logic makes no sense. apple can do it but anyone else that does it is completely in the wrong. this is why I steer clear of apple products. its not worth it for subpar hardware and ideas that were taken from smaller devs and added to their own software to push them out. smh I hope epic kills it in a battle with an actual jury not a single judge that used to be a lying lawyer with control issues.
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Welcome to Macrumours, you made a great choice when you decided to sign up today, always good to have more Apple fans on the forums
 
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Martinpa said:
From previous reports, Epic seemed to have taken full advantage of the benefits that come with that 30%, being especially demanding developers to the point Apple had people ready to help them particularly around the clock.


Not only that, but console may be sold at a loss or at very low margins when they first enter the market, but they stay on shelves for a long long time. A co sole generation is about, what, 7 years? And even after a new generation is released, the previous one keeps getting sold and keeps being supported. Economy of scale and reduced cost of component down the line must widen those margin a bit, even though msrp goes down too. In contrast, there is a new iPhone every year (with the R&D that goes with it). I’m not suggesting Apple isn’t making healthy profit off of their iPhone, but they propose a product people are ready to pay ~1000$ for, every few years, but the market doesn’t seem ready to pay for a console that is over 500$ (PS3 had a rough start at 600$). It doesn’t see that value proposition there but sees it in smartphones. If the market was ready to pay more for console, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo would be charging more and making a bigger margin. Different markets, different strategy.
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Nintendo never sells hardware at a loss
 
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Scipster said:
YGR noted that Epic did just that. While not entirely convinced that the iOS App Distribution constitutes a primary market, she did note there appeared to be a fundamental difference between iOS App Distribution and In App Purchases. If IAP is considered an aftermarket, and not an integral part of the App Store, that could very well put iOS App Distribution into primary market territory. Two separate products, tied together. Ultimately, it will likely be up for a jury to decide, in July 2021.
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I find this all so confusing and also having a hard time how it ties to epic’s wanting to not pay 30%? Is it the V-Bucks via IAP could skip it?
Because what’s so different between getting an app for free and fully unlocking it or removing ads via IAP? Or getting a demo on PSN and unlocking it with IAP? Or buying a full NameYourFPSShooter and buying skins online?
Myself I have a hard time to see the “not all integrated” angle, you get a phone, it does a lot of stuff, it has a lot of apps, you can go on the AppStore and get tons more of apps, free or paid, extendable paying more, etc.
 
farewelwilliams said:
You're wrong. Smaller iOS developers have it much better than Android developers (and frankly, other platforms like web and Windows). It sounds like you don't develop on iOS at all and have no clue how good we have it.

Come back to me when you've tried iOS dev.
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Oh come on, gate keeping is such lazy way of trying to troll - you can do better.
 
Ubuntu said:
No, it’s the other way around. Epic is the best chance smaller developers have at seeing any change happen, even if their motivations are far from pure. You’ve got it completely wrong.
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Citations please. You made the assertion, please back this up with FACTS that qualify this statement.
 
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TantalizedMind said:
Having all 100+ games accessible to stream in one app. Not 100+ apps.

Imagine you had a Netflix account but on iOS you needed to download an app for each movie. Each show.
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Yeah, this is really nonsense regarding the xcloud situation. Maybe since Netflix is not dynamically running, installing stuff and is mostly ‘just’ playing back a stream it can get away with it. Or maybe there’s a technical “app type description” limitation for it.

What the xcloud app could do is have its catalog of games shown and be a quick buffer for installing them, i.e an user after watching and reading which game to play it could press a quick button to open the AppStore at the right game app, get it installed and installs go automatically to an xcloud game folder... granted it will be two taps instead of one, but it would at least help the user in not having to go and find the game by hand. Make it as transparent as possible to the user.

All of this is so unnecessary though, since Microsoft already had the full thing working as it was intended.
 
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Philip_S said:
Based on Apple's statements, the sale prices of iPhones cover those costs

I'm not saying Apple, Google, etcetera's 30% is necessarily unreasonable (especially since the retailer takes at least 10% on gift cards, possibly more since they discount by 15% sometimes), but some of those expenses you list could be paid for out of the profit on the hardware (for Apple) or other android-related income (for google), making the app stores more profitable and other areas less profitable. My point was that such consistent pricing and offers suggests that either that really is the bare minimum the store operators can survive on (implausible, since console vendors charge the same to support loss making platforms) or there is no real effort to compete (even if there isn't an organised cartel).
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SO you want hardware prices to increase? Do we have a full breakdown of hardware costs? How much of the cost of the iPhone goes in to the development of the A series CPUs for example? iOS OUTSIDE of the App Store? Interior of the phone including case and camera system? I have never seen $100 of iPhone costs go to A-series, $100 goes to camera, and so on. So we cannot say that iPhone hardware sales is all that is needed for the App Store.
 
Megamassiveapplefanboy said:
Yet fortn

If you actually do your research you would know that Epic games only take 12% of the cut from games released on their store (as opposed to the 30% taken by the likes of Apple).

So if anything they are more consumer / indie developer friendly.

I think people are missing the whole point of what Epic are trying to achieve.
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Except they are only charging a lower rate hoping it will influence others away from competitors.
 
TiggrToo said:
Citations please. You made the assertion, please back this up with FACTS that qualify this statement.
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Where do you need citations? It’s my opinion 😂 there’s no way i as a small developer would get Apple to change - if I withdraw my apps they won’t care. If companies that matter do the same then there’s much more power behind it.

Totally with you about providing for facts but please try to distinguish facts and opinions first.
 
Ubuntu said:
Where do you need citations? It’s my opinion 😂 there’s no way i as a small developer would get Apple to change - if I withdraw my apps they won’t care. If companies that matter do the same then there’s much more power behind it.

Totally with you about providing for facts but please try to distinguish facts and opinions first.
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Normally I'd agree with you, but...

Ubuntu said:
Oh come on, gate keeping is such lazy way of trying to troll - you can do better.
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Seems like you're perhaps not as accepting of other people's opinions.
 
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Ubuntu said:
No, it’s the other way around. Epic is the best chance smaller developers have at seeing any change happen, even if their motivations are far from pure. You’ve got it completely wrong.
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The changes that happen might not benefit the small developer and even cause them to leave this market. But having any positive outcome from Epic is far from assured. Epic could have accomplished the same thing without being dishonest and that killed their credibility in court.

And it's a far cry from a slam-dunk that Apple will be found to have a "monopoly" in the app store, which is what Epic wants to cause.

Apple likely made a good amount of money from Epic's IAP as well as Epic raking in the $$$. Yet Apple kicked them out of the app store. Now google is joining the bandwagon. This is going to be interesting.
 
farewelwilliams said:
Epic games deserved it.

This is awesome news for indie developers that rely on the 30% to pay for a variety of developer services that Epic doesn't want to pay. People that are rooting for third party stores and/or Epic completely fail to realize this.
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Totally agree...
 
Epic can’t win this. You can’t just force a company to basically give you something for free because you aren’t happy with how much it costs.
 
Remy149 said:
Nintendo never sells hardware at a loss
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But they could easily enough if it benefitted them to do so-- they could simply sell their IP to a wholly owned subsidiary and license it back at a substantial markup. They'd sell each console at a loss and the parent company sees the same overall revenue.

"Selling at a loss" really is a meaningless threshold.

pete480 said:
That’s ok...epic will just go cry about it in court.
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Except they really don't seem to want to:

MacRumors said:
he judge pointed out that the 30 percent rate that Apple collects is the "industry rate" collected by PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Google, and more. "It's all 30 percent and you just want to gloss over it," the judge said to Epic's lawyers.

In response, Epic claimed that consoles are "different" because the hardware is sold at a loss,
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They were asked about Google (and Walmart, Amazon and Best Buy) and they responded with a comment about consoles. I haven't read the transcripts, so maybe they gave a fuller answer, but it appears to me that they only want to fight this war on one front at a time.
 
MikeTEC2183 said:
epic charges a significant amount less to develop using their software. free actually unless you make alot of money that is but then its still less than 15%. the fed govt takes in excess of 25% when you hit above 30000 a year. 25+30 is 55% of all profit. that takes it down to less than a restaurant worker. how in the actual hell is that reasonable for small developers? apple charges 1000 to gain access to that walled garden and can reject you for any stupid reason. Epic can let go of ios and wait for the players to hit consoles and pc and still works on mac. fortnight can be sideloaded easily and epic can have its own store on any android device easy peasy. I would take the loss and let ios go. epic is going nowhere anytime soon. Apple will get its antitrust case in fed court some day and be split just like Microsoft. Maybe some of those iphone users will buy an android device and find its just as secure and has better encryption than apple iphones. Iphone encryption was broken in record time by hackers. its funny that they say its super secure and has no malware or exploits. and that's just a sad lie that people believe. if you try to compete with them they remove your app. remember when googles apps were removed from the store because apple was making its own apps. yeah that sound monopolistic to me.
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Yes. Because that restaurant worker possesses a skill that will earn them 70k plus and full benefits at 22 years old. Cry me a river.
 
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