Erase & Install OR Upgrade??

Discussion in 'macOS' started by bitslap47, Nov 2, 2007.

  1. bitslap47 macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #1
    I am hoping the gurus here can help me out. This is my first time upgrading an OS on an Apple machine, and I have been an Apple/Mac OSX user for only 3 months. That being said, I'm not a computer or software n00b by any means.

    Here are my questions, and I'll try to keep them short and simple.

    1 - Erase & Install or Upgrade? How do I force Erase & Install if that is the preferred method. As a Windows user, I am conditioned to NEVER do an upgrade, only clean installs.

    2 - What do I need to back up, how should I do it, where are the items located, and how do I transplant them after an Erase & Install?

    I have installed:
    - Toast 8 (I can simply re-install)
    - Paralells (Only one image exists on the local HD, and I need to keep it and transplant it)
    - iLife08
    - NeoOffice

    I use:
    - Mail, iWeb, Paralells, iChat, iCalendar, Contacts, iTunes, .Mac w/ Sync

    3 - Is there anything else I should be aware of? Of course I will do a FULL backup (how do I do that BTW) before any attempt.
     
  2. Floris macrumors 68000

    Floris

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Location:
    Netherlands
    #2
    I have been a user for longer, but I didn't want to waste time with re-installing software and finding out I didn't update everything properly, etc.

    I put in the disk of leopard after I started up the system. It mounted and I clicked 'install leopard' - it restarted and it asked me to select a language, and then the drive. Select the bootable drive where tiger is on now and it will say you've chosen to upgrade, then click next and you're done. It will upgrade the system saying it's installing it. When it's done it probably reboot (i dont remember) and then you come back into tiger.. which is then leopard and you're done.
     
  3. dan3L macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    #3
    What are the steps for doing and Archive and Install?

    This is my first time doing a Mac OS upgrade. There doesn't seem to be a consensus as which install is the best in a general. It looks like Archive and Install covers the most bases.
    Can anyone describe the steps of the install as well as what should be done afterwards to get the best results with the least wasted drive space?
     
  4. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #4
    These threads start about once an hour these days.

    You'll always get geek advice to do things the hard way, but here's a good rule-of-thumb: If you have to ask, you should be upgrading, not erasing. An erase and install is a great way to shoot yourself in the head if you don't know precisely what you are doing.
     
  5. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #5
    OK. Does that mean nobody knows what I need to backup/do in order to do a fresh install?

    I just figured I would ask here before I call Apple and ask.
     
  6. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #6
    You'll get tons of complicated advice about how to do an erase and install. You can also search out some of the many threads on this topic. They are popping up like dandelions lately.

    My point is, if you have to ask you should be simply upgrading. The vast majority of people should, anyway.
     
  7. naftalim macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    #7
    Here is something I posted on another Forum that can help

    Being a fairly new user myself, and having had these same questions, perhaps I can explain.

    In case you are not aware, the way to install is to boot from your Install CDs. You do this by inserting the CD, going to the Apple Logo on the top left, select Restart. When the screen turns black, hold down the C key till the Apple Logo comes up and the spinning wheel starts. You will then be starting the Install. The first screen presents you with a Language Selection.


    Note that the default install for Leopard is Upgrade. To select Archive and Install or Erase and Install, click on the Options Button early in the Install. Make sure that you don't start Time Machine during the Install, it will slow things down. I used Archive and Install and it worked very well.

    What you want to do first is create a backup prior to installation in case something goes wrong.

    Since SuperDuper is not yet Leopard Compatible, and costs around $27, get Carbon Copy Cloner for now as its shareware with a $10 Donation. You can get it here. http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html. If you don't already have an External HD for backup, get one. The LaCie USB/FW400/800 types are good.

    IN CCC all you have to do is select your Macintosh HD as the Source and your Backup Drive as the Target and it will go ahead and Clone your Macintosh HD. You can test that it has worked well by setting your Startup Disk in System Preferences to the Backup Drive and restart. To get back to Startup from your main drive, set it again as the Startup in System preferences and restart.

    If you have done an Archive and Install or an Erase and Install, use Migration Assistant which is found in Applications/Utilities to help you migrate applications and data from your backup. Once you are satisfied that everything you need is there and working well, then you can make a decision how to structure your backups. For most people, just having a CCC or SuperDuper backup on an external is fine. If you want more granular backlup, you can use Time Machine as well. What I do is I have 2 partitions on my Backup Drive, one for Cloned Backup with CCC and the other using Time Machine. You create these partitions using Disk Utility which is again found in Applications/Utilities.

    I schedule my CCC backup for once a week, and Time Machine does it every hour.

    You can also set scheduled backups with CCC. A note. CCC will not backup if the computer is asleep, so go to System Preferences and Energy Saver and set it to wake a minute before your scheduled backups.

    Don't worry about Time Machine for now, your CCC backup will be fine at first.

    Hope this helps.





     
  8. aquajet macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Location:
    VA
    #8
    Since you're using .Mac, all of your mail accounts, iCal calendars, contacts and bookmarks can be backed up quickly and easily. Your iTunes music should be located in the music folder in your home folder.

    You could also simply drag your entire home folder onto a backup volume and restore it afterwards.

    As for the Erase and Install versus Upgrade, you'll waste a bunch of time doing an Erase and Install. Some people proclaim Erase and Install to be the best option, but the fact is, there really isn't any demonstrable reason why it is better. I've always used the Upgrade option, and I'll use it when I'm ready to upgrade my MBP to Leopard. It is straightforward and leaves everything intact. Even an Archive and Install is a better option than Erase and Install, as this will still leave your programs and settings intact. It'll take more space on your drive, but you can easily reclaim that space by trashing your old System directory after the upgrade.

    You should backup your data regardless of which method you use, of course.
     
  9. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #9
    So.... Archive and install does an upgrade, while backing up application preferences? If so, can I tell it to Archive to the external drive during the Archive and Install operation?
     
  10. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Orlando
    #10
    No, Archive and Install does a fresh install without deleting all the information on your hard drive. So, your operating system will be pristine and unaffected by previous bloat, but all of your user data and files will be intact and unmoved.

    Really, I'm not sure why they even need the other options anymore.

    jW
     
  11. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #11
    oooh...ooh!! So ..... does this mean I can do an archive and install, then do the migration deal pointing it to the archive folder as the source, migrate my stuff to leopard, than once I am satisfied everything is good to go, delete the archive folder and reclaim my space? This is of course in addition to a full backup I'll keep on my external.

    And... does it archive everything, or just app data? I.E do I only need enough space for the full drive space usage minus OS, or the full usage?
     
  12. -Alan- macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    #12
    If you decide to do a clean install and have a backup of all your data, make sure you read this very helpful post:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4410212&postcount=3


    Regarding Parallels, you can do a clean install and then copy your Parallels directory from the backed up Documents folder into the new Documents folder. When you install a fresh copy of Parallels it should recognize the old VM.
     
  13. Riot_Mac macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Location:
    IL
    #13
    I always do a fresh install. I don't trust the upgrade and archive installs. I have heard and seen problems specifically related to them. It takes a lot longer because you have to backup everything and then reinstall some apps, but I think it is worth it.

    I used Carbon Copy Cloner to make a bootable backup of my 10.4 install then I copy over old prefs, mail, some apps, docs, etc. You have to actually reinstall a few apps.
     
  14. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #14
    Does CCC make a disk image file? I have other things on my external drive... so I don't want to "clone" it... I want to make an Image or backup to a folder.

    So if I copy the entire documents DIR, will that contain everything I need to do a transplant including iTunes?

    I'm just not familiar with the OSX file structure...
     
  15. Riot_Mac macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Location:
    IL
    #15
    You can have make a disk image instead of just copying over the files to the top level of your external drive.

    As far as iTunes goes... I just copied over the iTunes folder in my old Music folder to the new Music folder in 10.5 and then launched iTunes and everything the same.
     
  16. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Orlando
    #16
    Better than that, you don't need to migrate anything. Well, one exception is preference panes and apps that are installed system-wide may put files in the /Library/Application Support, /Library/PreferencePanes, and /Library/Preferences folders, so check those before you throw away the old system folders. However, applications, user preferences/data, etc, will all be transferred automatically (or rather not moved at all).

    jW
     
  17. aquajet macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Location:
    VA
    #17
    Care to elaborate on how it's "affected by bloat"?
     
  18. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #18
    OK.... So here is my last question....

    I have copied my entire Users Folder to my external drive.

    I will do a full backup as well.

    Once the backup is complete, here is my plan:

    - Erase and Install (Full Fresh Install)
    - Setup .Mac and Sync
    - Install All of My Add-On applications
    - Copy My iTunes Folder, Document Files, Paralells Folder, and Photo Library Back to The Local Disk
    - Manually Set E-Mail back up

    Is this a good plan???
     
  19. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #19
    Well...

    I did a full erase and install.

    - I backed up manully my iTunes and Parallels folders (The manual iTunes backup was unable to be restored... seems copying the folder as a backup method is useless.)

    - I downloaded backup 3.2 from .mac. I ran a full backup of each recommended item (iTunes, Home Folder, iLife, Settings/Prefs.)

    - I did a full erase and install.

    - Installed Toast, NeoOffice, iLife, Parallels, and setup my mail accounts.

    - Copied my Parallels folder over, and clicked on the OS image file to resgister it with Parallels desktop.

    - Restored iLife

    - Restored iTunes

    All done!

    There was bloat (I gained 4GB of space by doing an erase and install) between Tiger and Leopard. Maybe things Apple installs as part of a new MacBook? Anyway, I'm glad I did a full erase and install... I can use that 4GB.

    Leopard is buggy, but I expected that anyway. sqllite in trash issue (turned off syncing of bookmarks) and Safari has issues with some of my commonly visited websites. They were fine under Tiger, but Safari will hang and cause panics now.

    Also, A2DP is implemented poorly. It stutters a lot, sound quality is poor. When using a Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse, don't bother trying until you have disconnected them. The headphones I have are top notch and sound great with other devices I own.

    I never experienced a panic in my 3 months of ownership until I installed Leopard. I use my machine heavily and get 2 or 3 panics a day... but it's bearable until some updates come out.

    Thanks all for you suggestions and help!
     
  20. DaveF macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    NoVA
    #20
    Download current version of APE (from Unsanity.com) if you use their hacks or have a Logitech mouse.

    Use SuperDuper to make a complete, bootable backup of your hard-drive. (Go to friend's house and play games while this is running.)

    Upgrade Install Leopard from DVD. (Make pancakes for breakfast during installation.)

    Watch Intro movie

    Click Reboot button to install system updates.

    Enjoy Leopard
     
  21. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #21
    Funny, how some people ask questions but aren't really very interested in the answers.
     
  22. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #22
    :confused:

    I was/am very interested in the answers, and the answers gave me the information and direction I needed. It worked out great, and I am grateful for everyone's input.

    Thanks again guys.
     
  23. Vegeta-san macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    #23
    What happens when the CCC clone does not work with Migration Assistant...? The clone works, for sure. I verified this by restarting into it even before I installed Leopard. But now that Leopard is installed, Migration Assistant is not listing my CCC Firewire Tiger backup as a volume I can transfer from.....What the hell is going on? Does it only work with Super Duper?
     
  24. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #24
    The point was, you were advised that clean installing is really quite unnecessary. I guess you were determined to do it anyway.
     
  25. bitslap47 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    bitslap47

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    #25
    Actually, the vast majority advised me to do a clean install. Also, while reading other threads here on the subject, I found quite a few people suggesting clean installs, and seemed to notice more complaints from upgraders than clean installers (could have simply been the threads I chose to read.)

    I solicited answers from sources other than this board as well.

    It turned out to be the right decision. I reclaimed wasted space, and was up and running in about 90 minutes total.

    As I said before, thanks for the help as well as the helpful and friendly attitude. It's much appreciated.
     

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