Ethical Sacrifice?

[mectojic]

Is it ethical to steal a Yikes G4 processor and board and upgrade a G3 B&W?

Is it right to make the true Core Solo Mac Mini virtually extinct due to CPU upgrades?

Should single, essential parts be sacrificed from working machines just to benefit other ones?

Should we pay more respect to the underdog Macs, like the G4 (PCI), or mercilessly harvest them for parts?

Just something I've been wondering. I've been looking for the coveted G4 Yikes to upgrade my B&W, and now have found one, complete in working condition... But is it right? Should I keep the unit intact? Or should I give the G3 some power with a G4 upgrade and a Rev B Yikes motherboard?

... I guess I can do a swap, and make the G4 Yikes a G3 Yikes...?

 

[eyoungren]

Is it ethical to steal a Yikes G4 processor and board and upgrade a G3 B&W?

Is it right to make the true Core Solo Mac Mini virtually extinct due to CPU upgrades?

Should single, essential parts be sacrificed from working machines just to benefit other ones?

Should we pay more respect to the underdog Macs, like the G4 (PCI), or mercilessly harvest them for parts?

Just something I've been wondering. I've been looking for the coveted G4 Yikes to upgrade my B&W, and now have found one, complete in working condition... But is it right? Should I keep the unit intact? Or should I give the G3 some power with a G4 upgrade and a Rev B Yikes motherboard?

... I guess I can do a swap, and make the G4 Yikes a G3 Yikes...?

You know how sometimes people mention the 'Church of Apple?'

It's not meant to be a literal expression.

 

[za9ra22]

If it were me, I wouldn't remove functional parts from a working system to upgrade another - at least another that is also working.

To some there may be an ethical thing in this but to me, it's taking two good machines and rendering them into one, for the sake of what is usually a fairly minor upgrade.

I'd keep them as two functional systems and enjoy their originality, whilst watching out for a parts machine if I felt the upgrade was actually worth it.

 

[orionquest]

Just do it you are overthinking it. Not a ethical dilemma, not going to impact anyone.

 

[philgxxd]

It’s reversible! I don’t see the problem

 

[pipetogrep]

It's your hardware to do with what you want.

 

[mectojic]

Huh. Fair enough. I appreciate the replies.

If it were me, I wouldn't remove functional parts from a working system to upgrade another - at least another that is also working.

To some there may be an ethical thing in this but to me, it's taking two good machines and rendering them into one, for the sake of what is usually a fairly minor upgrade.

I'd keep them as two functional systems and enjoy their originality, whilst watching out for a parts machine if I felt the upgrade was actually worth it.

I understand this view. I think I'll just have to make my upgrades reversible, and keep the G4 in storage in case I want to restore it to original.
The thing is, I'm not a typical collector I suppose. I really do try to use PPC Macs a lot, even low-spec ones. I really do want to get the most performance out of my B&W- I like its personality and design, but have felt limited by the G3.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

You own them. Do what you want with the parts. If you can take them apart, you can just as easily return them to their original state. I don't really see the ethical dilemma in making your tools work for you. If some fanboy got their panties in a twist, well so what

 

[mectojic]

You own them. Do what you want with the parts. If you can take them apart, you can just as easily return them to their original state. I don't really see the ethical dilemma in making your tools work for you. If some fanboy got their panties in a twist, well so what

That would be fine, but I do have limited space. I'm worried it would look bad to steal a G4 processor, and sell the rest of the machine for parts.

 

[eyoungren]

I'm worried it would look bad to steal a G4 processor, and sell the rest of the machine for parts.

Who is judging and condemning you and why do they get a say in it?

 

[mectojic]

Who is judging and condemning you and why do they get a say in it?

Not sure. Conscience?

 

[eyoungren]

Not sure. Conscience?

If by stealing you mean that it's not yours to take, then yeah.

But if you mean simply removing it from one computer to another then I don't see the problem.

 

[mectojic]

If by stealing you mean that it's not yours to take, then yeah.

I suppose that's what I mean, in general. I'm not stealing it from a person, but in a sense, I'm stealing the original configuration from posterity, or a future collector, who may want machines original and intact.

Think in a similar way to an art collector who decides to smear paint on his private collection of Van Gogh. I know Macs aren't fine art (yet... another conversation), but in the case of the art collector, are those works really "his" to be defaced, or do they somehow belong to culture?

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I suppose that's what I mean, in general. I'm not stealing it from a person, but in a sense, I'm stealing the original configuration from posterity, or a future collector, who may want machines original and intact.

Think in a similar way to an art collector who decides to smear paint on his private collection of Van Gogh. I know Macs aren't fine art (yet... another conversation), but in the case of the art collector, are those works really "his" to be defaced, or do they somehow belong to culture?

In short, yes they are. It’s his property and his statement to make just as your macs & what you do with them is yours.

 

[eyoungren]

I suppose that's what I mean, in general. I'm not stealing it from a person, but in a sense, I'm stealing the original configuration from posterity, or a future collector, who may want machines original and intact.

Think in a similar way to an art collector who decides to smear paint on his private collection of Van Gogh. I know Macs aren't fine art (yet... another conversation), but in the case of the art collector, are those works really "his" to be defaced, or do they somehow belong to culture?

You've put all this on a pedestal of your own making.

These were mass produced computers. Just because it has an Apple logo on it does not make it sacred.

 

[za9ra22]

The thing is, I'm not a typical collector I suppose. I really do try to use PPC Macs a lot, even low-spec ones. I really do want to get the most performance out of my B&W- I like its personality and design, but have felt limited by the G3.

I'm a user, not collector too. The 'ethical' question wouldn't even occur to me as a result, but in practice the one about reducing the pool of viable systems would, because the reality is that if I were concerned about performance as an issue, I would likely not be using G3 or G4 systems anyway, because by standards we know today, they are horribly slow.

My experience is that more than anything, the personality of these machines comes from what they were in their day, with the software we used at that time too. I set up the first G3 my university bought, and the crowd of staff that assembled to see it were wowed by its performance. To me then, I'd tend to say that if you're not finding the G3 good enough... maybe it's the software and MacOS, not the upgrade that might be worth looking at.

I say that as a very enthusiastic daily user of a 68040 Mac, which flies with the right apps, but tanks with the wrong ones!

 

[Danfango]

I used to buy and fix electronic test gear. Half my house was a literal graveyard of eviscerated equipment corpses. It was a horror show. Do not feel guilty or ethnically challenged unless it's human corpses

 

[mectojic]

Thanks for the replies. The thing is, I often am dealing with true antiques, 19th century furniture and other such things. People in the historical field tend to object to making modifications when there is some substantial historic value and rarity to the object. For instance, demolishing a Victorian house and replacing it with something ultra-modern is 100% legal, but is looked down upon; hence some local governments have created heritage listings, which have strict maintenance requirements.

I understand that these Macs were mass-produced, and hardly old by antique standards, but their rarity and value will only increase with time (and in a way, Victorian furniture was also 'mass-produced' once). Sure, a G4 could be picked up for $20 or found in a trash heap, but that could change within a few years.

Take a more rare machine for instance, an original Apple I. Would anyone really think it's ethical to desolder some parts and trash the board? Surely not- if not for preservation reasons, than at least for their financial value.

I think it's just something I think about when reflecting about my collection.

 

[G5isAlive]

Is it ethical to steal a Yikes G4 processor and board and upgrade a G3 B&W?

Is it right to make the true Core Solo Mac Mini virtually extinct due to CPU upgrades?

Should single, essential parts be sacrificed from working machines just to benefit other ones?

Should we pay more respect to the underdog Macs, like the G4 (PCI), or mercilessly harvest them for parts?

Just something I've been wondering. I've been looking for the coveted G4 Yikes to upgrade my B&W, and now have found one, complete in working condition... But is it right? Should I keep the unit intact? Or should I give the G3 some power with a G4 upgrade and a Rev B Yikes motherboard?

... I guess I can do a swap, and make the G4 Yikes a G3 Yikes...?

Nod twice if those drugs are legal

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Thanks for the replies. The thing is, I often am dealing with true antiques, 19th century furniture and other such things. People in the historical field tend to object to making modifications when there is some substantial historic value and rarity to the object. For instance, demolishing a Victorian house and replacing it with something ultra-modern is 100% legal, but is looked down upon; hence some local governments have created heritage listings, which have strict maintenance requirements.

I understand that these Macs were mass-produced, and hardly old by antique standards, but their rarity and value will only increase with time (and in a way, Victorian furniture was also 'mass-produced' once). Sure, a G4 could be picked up for $20 or found in a trash heap, but that could change within a few years.

Take a more rare machine for instance, an original Apple I. Would anyone really think it's ethical to desolder some parts and trash the board? Surely not- if not for preservation reasons, than at least for their financial value.

I think it's just something I think about when reflecting about my collection.

People in the historical field are dealing with truly rare & ancient, one-of-a-kind or cottage industry antique objects. At some point these elderly computers could potentially become that. Something to consider is even at that hypothetical point in future time, replacement parts will be needed for restoration, so parting a few out provides important and needed access to parts in this future where these quantity mass produced products potentially meet the recyclers fate and 1000s of production run units becomes 1, 2, 3 or 10 functioning units.

Through this lense, the collector maintaining untouched pristine machines as well as the person who provides the restorative NOS parts are a needed (or who provides the conditions for them to become available) and valued part of this hypothetical future ecosystem.

 

[m1maverick]

Is it ethical to steal a Yikes G4 processor and board and upgrade a G3 B&W?

Is it right to make the true Core Solo Mac Mini virtually extinct due to CPU upgrades?

Should single, essential parts be sacrificed from working machines just to benefit other ones?

Should we pay more respect to the underdog Macs, like the G4 (PCI), or mercilessly harvest them for parts?

Just something I've been wondering. I've been looking for the coveted G4 Yikes to upgrade my B&W, and now have found one, complete in working condition... But is it right? Should I keep the unit intact? Or should I give the G3 some power with a G4 upgrade and a Rev B Yikes motherboard?

... I guess I can do a swap, and make the G4 Yikes a G3 Yikes...?

Why not just use the G4 Yikes? Or is it that you want to continue using the G3 case with the G4 logic board?

 

[mectojic]

Why not just use the G4 Yikes? Or is it that you want to continue using the G3 case with the G4 logic board?

Correct. The idea is to have an upgraded B&W in its G3 case.

 

[AlumaMac]

You've put all this on a pedestal of your own making.

These were mass produced computers. Just because it has an Apple logo on it does not make it sacred.

Has nothing to do with the logo. Its about keeping vintage machines (all brands) intact for their preservation. They may have been mass produced but many have either been trashed/recycled, or diminished by battery bombs, brittle plastics, leaking caps, etc.

Correct. The idea is to have an upgraded B&W in its G3 case.

As a collector, I wouldn't part out a functioning, intact machine. But that's just my opinion.

 

[eyoungren]

Has nothing to do with the logo. Its about keeping vintage machines (all brands) intact for their preservation. They may have been mass produced but many have either been trashed/recycled, or diminished by battery bombs, brittle plastics, leaking caps, etc.


As a collector, I wouldn't part out a functioning, intact machine. But that's just my opinion.

Preservation?

I had my time with PowerPC and they were/are great Macs but obviously we (and OP) see this very differently.

I only ever saw them as well-crafted tools and I would not destroy a functioning Mac, but this is a simple processor/board swap.

My opinion only, but these are not museum worthy. Perhaps I've just used them too much to see that kind of prestige or value in them.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Preservation?

... but this is a simple processor/board swap.

That is what I find funny about this whole thread - OP can absolutely swap back the parts at any time so why not build out the system to have some fun and scratch that itch. Even if he sold them to fund other things or to make space, he could in theory purchase/trade for parts and rebuild the box at a later date if he felt the need to bring it back to original. I could see an ethical argument having traction if there was literally a handful in existence, but even now, there are pages of complete systems and parts across ebay and other sales platforms to be had at any time.

Yes, these systems are no longer in common production but none of them are even remotely close to truly being "rare". To imply that they are is hyperbole.