Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
That is what I find funny about this whole thread - OP can absolutely swap back the parts at any time so why not build out the system to have some fun and scratch that itch. Even if he sold them to fund other things or to make space, he could in theory purchase/trade for parts and rebuild the box at a later date if he felt the need to bring it back to original. I could see an ethical argument having traction if there was literally a handful in existence, but even now, there are pages of complete systems and parts across ebay and other sales platforms to be had at any time.

The OP previously mentioned they had limited space (but did not really define what that means).

Yes, these systems are no longer in common production but none of them are even remotely close to truly being "rare". To imply that they are is hyperbole.

While that may be true today I think the OPs comment is forward thinking. As time passes these will become rarer and rarer. Does he want to take this one out of circulation or leave it intact so it may, in the future, be one (or two if you consider both systems) of the few remaining?
 
Right, I understand his perspective. It’s his to have and I celebrate that. I cannot tell what the future brings (I mean heck maybe tomorrow someone invents a replicator lol) so I speak to the concepts of property ownership and the ethical implication of how things are now - he owns it and B&Ws are readily available, attainable and plentiful. Additionally I speak to the relationship of both the conservator and parts reseller as necessary for a future where these plentiful boxes may actually get rare. One is not better than the other - they are interconnected although they are most certainly judged differently as is evidenced by this thread and others like it. If one is to be successful, the other must exist so where exactly does the ethical struggle exist if both serve the end result of conservatorship?

Perhaps I’m the only person who sees humor in how absolutely reversible the initial proposition was and with it the hyperbolic positioning that there is an ethical position to be made.

Anyhow, I want him to do him and be happy. If that’s keeping his boxes as pristine as he can, I celebrate his efforts and I hope he posts interesting YT videos about it so I have cool retro Mac vids to watch.
 
My opinion only, but these are not museum worthy.
Fair enough. But practically nothing is considered museum-worthy when first made – the value only becomes apparent later, through scarcity and cultural awareness. To an older gen who used the first Macintosh, it's just a tool they once used. To someone young who never used one, it's something of an icon, a museum piece.
The OP previously mentioned they had limited space (but did not really define what that means).
Yes, limited apartment space, consequence of living in the city. Honestly I would prefer to take the G4 CPU for my G3 and dispose of the rest of the machine, but that's wasteful – but who's going to want a complete Yikes without the CPU?

While that may be true today I think the OPs comment is forward thinking. As time passes these will become rarer and rarer.
Correct. The fact is, Core Solo Mac Minis are becoming rare. And G4 Yikes are often harvested for their CPU. I'd prefer to not contribute to the problem. I may sell the Yikes cheap for parts, so at least the ethical burden is out of my hands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlumaMac
Fair enough. But practically nothing is considered museum-worthy when first made – the value only becomes apparent later, through scarcity and cultural awareness. To an older gen who used the first Macintosh, it's just a tool they once used. To someone young who never used one, it's something of an icon, a museum piece.

Yes, limited apartment space, consequence of living in the city. Honestly I would prefer to take the G4 CPU for my G3 and dispose of the rest of the machine, but that's wasteful – but who's going to want a complete Yikes without the CPU?


Correct. The fact is, Core Solo Mac Minis are becoming rare. And G4 Yikes are often harvested for their CPU. I'd prefer to not contribute to the problem. I may sell the Yikes cheap for parts, so at least the ethical burden is out of my hands.

There’s “rare” *(quantity offered in raw numbers); there’s “survivors” (quantity in existence today, working or not); and there’s “sought-after” (the desire for surviving examples of a thing, whatever its original raw numbers). This is an age-old topic, but still worthy of discussion as it relates to old computers. I mean, this is Action Retro’s whole focus on YouTube — namely, the rare examples which were never sold in high quantity, whose survivors are probably few, and aren’t really sought-after by all save for a handful of those in the know.

To wit, I watched a YT clip of some dudes who were fawning over, of all things, a run-of-the-mill work truck, painted in standard white, built in the mid ’90s (I’m not sure why I watched it, but here we are). Millions of these trucks were manufactured, put on roads, got wrung through the wringer and either survive now as rusting hulks doing their last years of work, are sitting in some back field with trees growing through it, or were long ago crushed at a scrap yard. They were ubiquitous. But why these dudes were salivating (they were all under the age of probably 30) was because the truck only had about 1,500km on it and had sat in a climate-controlled garage ever since it was delivered and driven all of once. It was clean. It still wafted that “new car smell” when the door was opened. That’s because there are few survivors in this condition, despite their tremendous commonality at inception. It’s sought-after by a particular person because of its survivor state. I mean, for a YT clip, my reaction was “Oh, neat,” but there’s nothing desirable about it to me. I wouldn’t want one. It’s probably not very sought-after by most people.

Meanwhile, there’s no shortage of folks who want to covet, say, a sports car — both rare and sought-after — in whatever condition they can find one. Because from the start those examples were known to be rare (often because of how much they cost and/or how they were assembled, such as by hand), many survivors might still exist, but so too those continue to be sought-after by a lot of folks. Like, idk, a Ferrari.

Then there are those which were never rare, but whose survivors are scarce because, like that white work truck, went through the travails of use-life until most were consigned to the scrap yard. And yet, their desire is highly sought-after due to stuff like nostalgia value.

And lastly, there are those common models which weren’t made in high quantity because there was little demand for them in their time. They were rare, and few survive today. They’re only sought-after by a very particular person because there’s something unique which appeals to them. For example, there is undoubtedly a fan out there for the convertible Nissan Murano SUV, made for, I think, one year. Few were made. They were impractical, ill-suited for the job, not very appealing aesthetically, and badly made. Few were sold. But you can be sure there’s a big fan of them somewhere and considers them highly sought-after.


All of this is to say: the Core Solo Mac mini probably exists in the same realm as that Nissan Murano convertible: compromised, awkward, underpowered, and was always rare in sheer numbers made/sold. It wasn’t, even in its time and with what was expected on the horizon, a very desirable model. But to the Core Solo Mac mini fan, original survivors are precious and, for them, quite sought-after.

I can relate here mostly because I love the key lime iBook, though these differ because they were always rare (in sheer numbers, relative to the other colours… especially the 366 key lime, wow) and still sought-after by nostalgic folks (not me), though no one has a real sense of how many actual survivors remain. (I suspect the numbers of survivors for key lime is higher than other colours, because they were always known to be rare from the outset.) Collectors who have them tend to keep quiet about them unless they decide to sell them (or if one turns up in an estate sale). We can only extrapolate who’s moving them around whenever one turns up for sale (infrequently) or when one gets destroyed (polka-dot clown man, ebay’s own mhd59michel — yah that’s right, mhd59michel, I called you out. Fite me.).

Another rarity: the 700MHz iMac SE (summer 2001): few were made (rare), relative to other iMac G3s because they were expensive (relative to the other iMacs), and few folks talk about them now (not widely sought-after). Few examples probably survive because they got used like any other iMac G3 (either until the CRT, PSU, or HDD released their blue smoke). But I treat them as a highly sought-after model for me because of what it has: the fastest PPC750CX/CXe CPU in any Mac. I want that CPU in my hot little hands, because I want to transplant that CPU into my iBook G3/466, to create the fastest key lime clamshell G3 I can. For the iMac G3/700 fan out there (I’m sure there are a few!), what I want to do with one if I find one might be an abhorrent, blasphemous idea, but not for my nefarious needs.

Anyway, conserve what you know is meaningful, or what is meaningful for you. If you can develop a museum, those rare, quirky, not-sought-after-but-really-unusual-even-in-their-day examples are the kinds of things you might want to feature in your collections. :)
 
@mectojic, also being sentimental, I completely understand your dilemma.

I personally agree with you that the B&W G3 has more “personality” than the G4.

What I think I would do in your situation is run the Yikes for a bit, get to know it, push it to its limits, benchmark it, etc then do the transplant of the G4 CPU (and any other upgradable steals) into the B&W G3, re-run the same tests and see what comes of it. If the loss of performance is only marginal (or none at all), stick with the B&W “G4” and have fun with it.

Personally, I would then go on a hunt to find another G4 ZIF upgrade for either machine (pushing the B&W beyond its limits), and eventually reinstate the Yikes in some capacity, which you could then potentially sell off as a complete system.... or keep it :)

Some years ago, I put quite a bit of time into documenting my Sawtooth adventures, if you’re after a little inspiration...


Good luck!

:apple:
 
Yikes! G4 CPU’s pop up on ebay quite a bit for usually pretty cheap.. I have one in my B&W and in my Beige minitower. The thought of finding an entire Yikes! System just for the CPU never occurred to me.. I would look for just the processor card.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lepidotós
Yikes! G4 CPU’s pop up on ebay quite a bit for usually pretty cheap.. I have one in my B&W and in my Beige minitower. The thought of finding an entire Yikes! System just for the CPU never occurred to me.. I would look for just the processor card.
Sadly, This is not true in Australia. I've searched for a Yikes for nearly 2 years with no finds. I asked every buyer with an unspecified graphite to check the specs...
 
Very interesting debate.

The reality of collecting something outside the US proves to be something quite challenging as the years go by. For example, here in Brazil to acquire an iMac G5 iSight 20" for more than 2 years watching daily various sites/marketplaces and with luck I could found an "working" 1st gen iMac G5 with artifacts (aka problems with capacitors or worst). I only bought my unit from ebay Canada on Christmas of 2017 and send it to a relative that would come to Brazil the next year.

Buying parts that I really want/need I use shipment redirection because some sellers are kind of lazy to ship outside of continental US. Europe I didn't have so many problems, but who knows?

The same applies to video-games, audio-equipment and many other things. Now back to the thread...

This problem reminds me of the Ship of Theseus, because from many forums, videos and talks with people that I encounter working with IT. Some takes very different approaches regarding equipment.

For some, they only uses original hardware that was designed and upgrades that was compatible at the time of the manufacturing cycle. To give more authenticity to the equipment. So in my case that would mean my iMac should only use 2Gb of RAM instead of 4Gb. Spinning HDD's with the appropriate interface and so on.

For others they modernize as much as they can, using different cards and upgrades, so what remains "original" from that machine that you can call it "original"? (There it's the Ship of Theseus thought).

If you are only talking of hardware that is it... But computers also have a software side, so only would use the "original designed software" for that equipment? Or should you try to use more advanced techniques/tricks to run unintended Operating Systems or Linux and other variants?

It's inevitable that many equipment's would gone to the trash for a variety of reasons, and salvage parts for using in other equipment's are a good thing to do. And disassembly a working equipment to upgrade another in my opinion isn't a problem.

Core Solo Mac's in my point of view aren't a good platform from performance and architecture, so upgrading it only would improve what Apple eventually did it anyways.
 
Last edited:
This is really a useful reminder to some of us, that what is 'rare' is often more a matter of location than it is of anything else. What is commonly available in a large marketplace such as the US, doesn't reflect on availability elsewhere.

Not that this should dictate to a legitimate owner of anything. What an individual chooses to do with their property is not really any business of anyone but that person. But that is the essence of 'ethics', because that is more about collective good than individual needs.

Which means that 'ethically' it would be far more acceptable to perform the upgrade the OP was mooting if in the US, than elsewhere where these systems are harder or impossible to find.
 
I did think about this quite a bit a few days ago actually. Ultimately, I came to this conclusion. YMMV :)

Op is in Sydney Australia. Searching auctions on ebay.com.au provides parts and full machines. Last week, a generous Aussie was looking for local pickup of a free B&W right here on MRF so he can give it away to some lucky soul. Op has plentiful access to parts and machines paid for and free if he wants or needs them outside of the NA market. and if he did not, he would still have access to Intl sellers willing to ship to Australia. Pricing outside of the North American market is obviously higher but price does not dictate rarity so much as availability.

Now I fully agree that there are places in the world that a complete lack of availability (whether it be available machines locally or sellers unwilling to ship) leads to regional scarcity and functional rarity for folks. This however does not speak to the product itself as a rare or scarce item globally. They might not all be located right in your back yard which is a bummer for you but in regards to the rarity of the product, it still exists in large quantities elsewhere, so as an expression of human culture, is absolutely available to "us" in large quantities and therefore not rare right now.

Fun food for thought.
 
I did think about this quite a bit a few days ago actually. Ultimately, I came to this conclusion. YMMV :)

Op is in Sydney Australia. Searching auctions on ebay.com.au provides parts and full machines. Last week, a generous Aussie was looking for local pickup of a free B&W right here on MRF so he can give it away to some lucky soul. Op has plentiful access to parts and machines paid for and free if he wants or needs them outside of the NA market. and if he did not, he would still have access to Intl sellers willing to ship to Australia. Pricing outside of the North American market is obviously higher but price does not dictate rarity so much as availability.

Now I fully agree that there are places in the world that a complete lack of availability (whether it be available machines locally or sellers unwilling to ship) leads to regional scarcity and functional rarity for folks. This however does not speak to the product itself as a rare or scarce item globally. They might not all be located right in your back yard which is a bummer for you but in regards to the rarity of the product, it still exists in large quantities elsewhere, so as an expression of human culture, is absolutely available to "us" in large quantities and therefore not rare right now.

Fun food for thought.
Thanks for sharing.
For context, Australian prices are always higher than the US. Any Mac pre-Intel sells for a fairly high price.

In fact it's so bad that I have sometimes bought from the US to save. I got a Pismo from the US for $200Aud, which also includes $120Aud additional shipping and import tax. Shipping from ths US is always crazy prices. Laptops and small parts are tolerable, but I've never shipped a full iMac or tower from the US. While it's theoretically possible, it's ludicrous. You're paying 5-6x the item's value in shipping freight costs. The Australian government taxes all imports by 10% of the total, too.
So, in reality, I've always considered myself locked out of the US market for towers, and have thus kept a closer eye on local listings for those.

And update: I did get the Yikes. I've had bad luck with ZIF upgrades in the past, so I decided to spare myself a headache and swapped the whole board between the G3 and G4. The Yikes I got was utilised well for parts I'd say, as I needed its CD-rom, its plastic latch mechanism, 2x256mb ram sticks it came with, etc. It's all reversible. I may keep it for a while before I decide what to do.
I must say, I rather like the aesthetic of the power button on the Yikes. I wonder if it can be swapped into another G4 tower, just for lolz?
 
All of the Aussie retro mac guys I run into all speak to the inflated price increase over there for mac stuff, so it makes complete sense to use Intl shipping only as a very last last resort. I have a GigE that I find very aesthetically pleasing as well. I havent done anything to it since I got it but would like to think up some fun project with it. Its also incredibly quiet in comparison to pretty much every other PM I have which is really cool I think. Ive never tried to swap a power button but if the connectors are identical, Id probably give it a shot to see what happens.
 
Last edited:
All of the Aussie retro mac guys I run into all speak to the inflated price increase over there for mac stuff, so it makes complete sense to use Intl shipping only as a very last last resort. I have a Yikes that I find very aesthetically pleasing as well. I havent done anything to it since I got it but would like to think up some fun project with it. Its also incredibly quiet in comparison to pretty much every other PM I have which is really cool I think. Ive never tried to swap a power button but if the connectors are identical, Id probably give it a shot to see what happens.
Exactly, it's the quietness that impresses me. The G3 B&W and G4 Yikes, with a clean power supply, run softer than even the G4 Sawtooth, and certainly softer than all other G4 and G5 Towers, not to mention most Beige Macs.
 
Is it ethical to steal a Yikes G4 processor and board and upgrade a G3 B&W?

Is it right to make the true Core Solo Mac Mini virtually extinct due to CPU upgrades?

Should single, essential parts be sacrificed from working machines just to benefit other ones?

Should we pay more respect to the underdog Macs, like the G4 (PCI), or mercilessly harvest them for parts?

Just something I've been wondering. I've been looking for the coveted G4 Yikes to upgrade my B&W, and now have found one, complete in working condition... But is it right? Should I keep the unit intact? Or should I give the G3 some power with a G4 upgrade and a Rev B Yikes motherboard?

... I guess I can do a swap, and make the G4 Yikes a G3 Yikes...?

You only live life once.

You need to decide, whether you want to build your dream rig or preserve computers for a collection to sell for big bucks in the future.

Personally, I choose both. I would buy a G4 to be euthanized and another for preservation. By the way, that's exactly what I did to save a G3 that the delivery guy destroyed during the trip. Here in my country the G3 is very rare, its box was completely destroyed, EXCEPT for the blue parts. So I bought a G3 400mhz with a damaged power supply and used your nice clear plastics on the G3. I can't believe how the G3 turned out so beautiful. In the future I will use isopropyl alcohol to remove the paint from the sides so that they are transparent as glass so I can admire that big G3 on the sides.

Other times it is financially unfeasible to preserve, as was the case of a Performa 6360 that humidity and a leaking battery completely corroded its plate in the processor region. So I needed to desecrate the performa by installing a 500mhz iBook G3 motherboard (downclocked to 400mhz) inside it. I like to think it's a performa with a sonet g3 update.

I will definitely be smuggled in and cursed by Apple Church followers.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20230210_175535.jpg
    IMG_20230210_175535.jpg
    347.6 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_20230210_175542.jpg
    IMG_20230210_175542.jpg
    328 KB · Views: 69
  • IMG_20201212_000441.jpg
    IMG_20201212_000441.jpg
    315.4 KB · Views: 58
Last edited:
I suppose that's what I mean, in general. I'm not stealing it from a person, but in a sense, I'm stealing the original configuration from posterity, or a future collector, who may want machines original and intact.

Think in a similar way to an art collector who decides to smear paint on his private collection of Van Gogh. I know Macs aren't fine art (yet... another conversation), but in the case of the art collector, are those works really "his" to be defaced, or do they somehow belong to culture?
If everyone who had a mac like this kept them well, 20 years from now they would be worth almost nothing. What gives them value is the simple rule of supply and demand.

My grandfather had a car that he used without taking the plastics off the seat, he took perfect care of the car until the day he sold it. He got a little more than market value, but the reality is he was just a janitor who kept the car well maintained for someone else to enjoy. The person who bought it destroyed the car in 3 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: m1maverick
You only live life once.

You need to decide, whether you want to build your dream rig or preserve computers for a collection to sell for big bucks in the future.

Personally, I choose both. I would buy a G4 to be euthanized and another for preservation. By the way, that's exactly what I did to save a G3 that the delivery guy destroyed during the trip. Here in my country the G3 is very rare, its box was completely destroyed, EXCEPT for the blue parts. So I bought a G3 400mhz with a damaged power supply and used your nice clear plastics on the G3. I can't believe how the G3 turned out so beautiful. In the future I will use isopropyl alcohol to remove the paint from the sides so that they are transparent as glass so I can admire that big G3 on the sides.

Other times it is financially unfeasible to preserve, as was the case of a Performa 6360 that humidity and a leaking battery completely corroded its plate in the processor region. So I needed to desecrate the low performance by installing a 500mhz iBook G3 motherboard (downclocked to 400mhz) inside it. I like to think it's a performa with a sonet g3 update.

I will definitely be smuggled in and cursed by Apple Church followers.
That thing is gorgeous. Always loved the G3 casing, and I almost feel your mod makes it look better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mectojic
Personally, I choose both. I would buy a G4 to be euthanized and another for preservation. By the way, that's exactly what I did to save a G3 that the delivery guy destroyed during the trip. Here in my country the G3 is very rare, its box was completely destroyed, EXCEPT for the blue parts. So I bought a G3 400mhz with a damaged power supply and used your nice clear plastics on the G3. I can't believe how the G3 turned out so beautiful. In the future I will use isopropyl alcohol to remove the paint from the sides so that they are transparent as glass so I can admire that big G3 on the sides.
Woah... the actual aesthetic result is brilliant! I may have to do this myself. I have 2 G4s and 2 G3s, so I can keep one each with stock appearance, but definitely think this colour swap looks awesome, and actually fits the theme of putting a G4 in a G3. I also have some cracked parts of the 'white', but not the blue, on one of mine.

But how did you extract the blue logo from the side panels? That seems rather challenging.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dextructor
Woah... the actual aesthetic result is brilliant! I may have to do this myself. I have 2 G4s and 2 G3s, so I can keep one each with stock appearance, but definitely think this colour swap looks awesome, and actually fits the theme of putting a G4 in a G3. I also have some cracked parts of the 'white', but not the blue, on one of mine.

But how did you extract the blue logo from the side panels? That seems rather challenging.

After removing the entire side, on the back side there is a small hole to stick something that pushes the badge out. But it is glued very well, I used isopropyl alcohol to soften around the glue, and a heat gun not too hot, so the glue was soft, and I could push the emblem without breaking it.

I think this mod would be perfect with upgrades to g4.

Many years ago, I found a company that manufactured only these blue parts, but in many different colors. Unfortunately, nowadays there is still no 3D printing with translucent materials, but I dream of one day being able to have a ruby power mac.
 

Attachments

  • powermac colors.png
    powermac colors.png
    1.4 MB · Views: 59
If everyone who had a mac like this kept them well, 20 years from now they would be worth almost nothing. What gives them value is the simple rule of supply and demand.
The mindset isn't (necessarily) about financial value as much as it is about just keeping these units around and available for everyone who wants to have one to be able to. At least, it is for me. I get how common G3 B&Ws are but I'd rather get one someone already ATX modded for a Blackbird board than cut one up, even if it was a Revision A with a dead board, at least the case and any modular components can go to some other units that need them. Each one cut up (or, more controversially but this is my opinion, painted) is one closer to the future where there's only like 40 left in the world. I'd say that anything reversible (i.e. non-destructive) is fine, but once you start getting into the destructive processes it becomes a bit more questionable, and when it gets to just gutting and cutting it so you can use the case for some AMD FX-6300 garbage fire that's when it becomes indefensible to me. Even M1 mini mods and Game Boy backlighting/IPS screen mods I'm not fond of in the slightest. Though the Game Boy one is mainly because they absolutely destroy the intended color rendering...
I will say I'm not a puritan though. I'm all for mods that add robustness, like SSDs, new fans, and stuff like that.​
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mectojic
I will say I'm not a puritan though. I'm all for mods that add robustness, like SSDs, new fans, and stuff like that.​

Any mod which can be undone, non-destructively, is fine in my book: someday, a retrocomputing fan who acquires my gear after I’m dead will be able to work from unaltered source material and not a destroyed mish-mash of whatever.

Which is why you don’t paint crap, like polka dots, on a polycarbonate and silicone Mac laptop of 1999 to 2001 vintage. You just don’t — not without catching eternal ire from folks who will speak rudies in your name long after you’re dead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lepidotós
Which is why you don’t paint crap, like polka dots, on a polycarbonate and silicone Mac laptop of 1999 to 2001 vintage. You just don’t — not without catching eternal ire from folks who will speak rudies in your name long after you’re dead.
I'm still holding out hope for someone to do a limited run of all these plastic pieces for restoring those... more creatively endowed systems out there, and making μATX/Framework compatible clone cases with the excess. Or at least doing some 3D scans for people to make them themselves.​
 
I'm still holding out hope for someone to do a limited run of all these plastic pieces for restoring those... more creatively endowed systems out there, and making μATX/Framework compatible clone cases with the excess. Or at least doing some 3D scans for people to make them themselves.​

I’m not terribly worried about the plastic pieces so much as, say, finding the bottom case of a key lime model which hasn’t been destroyed by some soulless clown in Miami.

Reproducing the plastic pieces is possible, even using 3D printers; re-creating the high-pressure-applied silicone pieces on polycarbonate is not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lepidotós
Posting this here because it seems like the best fit thread, but I actually have one mod in mind I really do want someone to do. It goes like this: 12" iBook G3 or G4 800MHz logic board, 13" CRT monitor, downscaled 3D printed indigo iMac chassis. iMac mini G3 (or G4 if you're into that kind of thing). I will buy this for a profit off anyone dedicated enough to actually make it. I'm just suggesting Indigo because it's era appropriate for 800MHz. It's a nice color and I really do like it, but I like all the different colors of iMac -- in particular, Bondi, Lime, and Tangerine. Graphite would also be era appropriate and convenient as it would share a mouse and keyboard with my Power Mac G4s.
I may one day just make one for myself, so I would still rather like someone to do the scanning of some still good-condition iMac parts before it's too late.​
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.