EU Customers are getting ripped-off with these prices

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by thepanos, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. thepanos, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011

    thepanos macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2011
    Why do we have to pay a 45% premium? A mac mini costs $599 / $799 in the US but 599 Euro / 799 Euro to those of use living in the EU. I thought they where going to adjust their prices to reflect the weak dollar.
  2. mgipe macrumors demi-god


    Oct 6, 2009
    Part of the premium is due to taxes. US price does not include tax. What is your VAT rate?
  3. mgipe macrumors demi-god


    Oct 6, 2009
  4. philipma1957, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011

    philipma1957 macrumors 603


    Apr 13, 2010
    Howell, New Jersey
    even if vat is 20 percent 600 usd is 720usd

    the worse usa state is 10 percent so you pay 660 usd

    he should pay 720usd if his vat is 20 percent now 720 usd is 500 euros but as some one said

    import duties may add on more to that

    Greece has a vat of 23% so 738 usd or about 513 euros.

    there is shipping handling and possible import duty . some payoffs? so I guess that is the other 86 euros
  5. erpetao macrumors regular

    Jun 19, 2011
    Well, that's for living in a semi-comunist area.

    Bear in mind that you need to pay ultra high taxes to support the politicians' BMWs, bailouts for the greek.. And the irish. And the portuguese. And the spanish.

    The corruption in the med countries is huge, thus the high taxes to finance it.

    (BTW I'm from a med country).
  6. thepanos, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011

    thepanos thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2011
    As for the shipping part of the equation, you guys are thinking of shipping these 1 by 1. This isn't how it works. Containers are shipped full of pallets loaded with these things.

    Lets say a container costs X to ship from the US to the EU and there are Y pallets per container and Z mini's per pallet. That means the cost of shipping 1 mini from the US to the EU would be X / (Y * Z). Lets say theoretically a container costs about $5000 to ship from the US to the EU, and a container holds 25 pallets, with 72 (8*9) minis per pallet. That means that 1 mac mini costs ~$2.78 to ship.

    As for taxes, you are right. The prices in EU are inclusive of taxes. The VAT rate is 19% in Germany. So 599 * 1.19 + 2.78 = 715.59 USD = 497.12 EURO.
  7. zin, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011

    zin macrumors 6502

    May 5, 2010
    United Kingdom
    Well, someone has to allow Apple to retain the same pricing in the US with a weak dollar. It is unfortunate international customers are used this way.
  8. DollFaceDork macrumors 6502


    Jul 13, 2011
    Plus the price minus the VAT is £707 for the base 11" MBA

    Overall price is £849

    Blame the government.
  9. iStudentUK, Jul 22, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011

    iStudentUK macrumors 65816


    Mar 8, 2009
    Not this again! Here are a few reasons-

    VAT! Why does everyone forget that?!

    Import/Custom duties etc

    Better worker's rights. Apple will have to give its staff more- better holiday entitlements, shorter hours, flexible-time, maternity leave etc

    Better consumer rights. Various laws that improve consumer rights (many people don't need to bother buying AppleCare) drive up Apple's cost of doing business.

    Why do people in Europe think they can have their cake and eat it to? We can't have these types of benefits (and many more) without governments getting income from somewhere, and they achieve that through high taxes. Apple are going to increase their prices to maintain profit margins.

    Yes, and £707 = $1150. Base 11" is $999 in the US. So we pay a 15% premium for the kinds of benefits I mention above. Personally, I think better worker and consumer rights etc are worth this kind of premium. You may not agree, but it isn't Apple/government being greedy for no reason.
  10. chedda macrumors 6502

    Apr 17, 2006

    Cyprus is a tax whore as well they are currently raising levels to pay for the power station they blew up ! VAT on new houses wtf ?
  11. ralnar macrumors newbie

    Apr 28, 2008
    Are they made in the US?
    I though they were made in China, and then shipped to both EU and the US.
    Or do you suggest that they are shipped first to the US, and then to EU?
  12. philipma1957 macrumors 603


    Apr 13, 2010
    Howell, New Jersey
    That may be the case basically for theft control. Large companies like apple need to keep internal theft down as best they can. Macs are very attractive on the black market. A pallet here and a pallet there add up.
  13. ralnar macrumors newbie

    Apr 28, 2008
    And I would imagine shipping China->US warehouse->EU would increase the chance of theft compared with shipping China->EU directly.
    Not to mention increase shipping costs...
  14. philipma1957 macrumors 603


    Apr 13, 2010
    Howell, New Jersey

    Not going to argue your point, but after seeing the "apple store" in China on the news last night Apple may want the gear to touch down in USA for some but not all EU countries.

    See link;
  15. thepanos thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2011
    I would assume that they are shipped from china to eu. The only reason I went from US -> EU is because people were saying that shipping is a factor as to why they are more expensive in the EU than the US.

    And although we do pay more tax in the EU than US, no country has a 45% tax.

  16. Mavimao macrumors 6502a


    Feb 16, 2005
    Lyon, France
    Well yes, it seems more expensive if you convert the currencies using the current exchange rate, but exchange rates are constantly fluctuating. One month the EUR/US$ exchange rate can be 1.45 and then come tumbling down to 1.25 two months later. So it's a flawed measurement of pricing items. You should look at percentage of purchasing power instead.

    For example a French person takes home 1000€ a month. US person takes home $1000 a month. Sure on the money markets, the European person makes $400 more but that doesn't increase his purchasing power. The Fench person will pay €5 and the US person will pay $5 for the same box of cereal. Same for computers.

    But on the other hand exchange rates can be advantageous. I know a lot of Europeans who buy macs in the states while on vacation because the € is worth so much more on the markets.
  17. Lankyman macrumors 68000

    May 14, 2011
    Not quite as simple as many assume. I was watching a finance programme shown here in the UK a few weeks ago and funnily enough it mentioned the iPod in relation to design manufacture and profit. On a $300 dollar iPod Apple make approximately $80 dollars. The rest goes to the manufacturer, shipping and distribution, with the largest portion going to the retailer.
  18. Bye Bye Baby macrumors 65816

    Bye Bye Baby

    Sep 15, 2004
    i(am in the)cloud
    You forget Italy- another backward, corrupt and financially bankrupt med country.
  19. ri0ku, Jul 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011

    ri0ku macrumors 6502a

    Mar 11, 2009
    While i agree that especially here in the UK prices are high (even after taxes etc they are still higher than the US and not just by a small amount)
  20. kikedeolivos macrumors member

    Jun 9, 2009
    Do you want get ripped off even better? Try to buy Apple products in Argentina.
  21. WickedStealthy macrumors member

    Apr 29, 2011
    Well there are some remarks about taxes + import duties eplaining the high price.

    Well this is only partly true. It will make a difference but not to the extend that it compensates for the prices. I have been importing stuff directly from Japan a few years back.
    I didn't have the savings from buying bulk and shipping in bulk.... Well prices where 40% less AFTER paying shipping, import duties and taxes.

    It is simply because we tolerate this and still buy the stuff. Years back when the dollar was strong they compensated for the exchange rate ... because it was in their favor. Now it is the opposite and suddenly I dont see this adaptation ....
  22. ralnar macrumors newbie

    Apr 28, 2008
    To be fair, the Mac Mini price in Sweden was actually adjusted for exchange rate along with the USD100 price drop. All in all it was dropped 20 %, due to SEK exchange rate being all-time low at 2010 update.
    Another thing to consider is that there are rarely any rebates, discounts or sales to be found on Macs at least here in Sweden. Not even a refurb section on Apple Store.
    Right now they are trying to get rid of the C2D model at the equivalent of 800USD, down from 1100 USD, while the i5s still have not reached stores.
  23. Mak47 macrumors 6502a

    Mar 27, 2011
    Harrisburg, PA
    The price difference is a result of multiple factors. Taxes (not just VAT), import duties, exchange rates & a generally higher cost of doing business.

    VAT is not a flat tax. It is exponential, meaning a 20% VAT on two different products sold at the same price may result in different total amounts. Products are taxed at every level where value is added. Consumers don't see this and cannot calculate it on their own unless they have an intimate knowledge of the manufacturing process.

    Import duties exist, but are not that much of a factor.

    Exchange rates also factor in to pricing, most currencies aren't worth what they were just a year or two ago. Those changes are far more evident for non US consumers because domestic inflation does not impact pricing in the same way.

    The other factor is the higher cost of doing business in the EU. Apple is very careful to ensure pricing is equal across the board (with very few exceptions) in a given market. Retailers need to be able to sell their products for the same price that Apple does. This means that their higher costs must be factored in. Employees in the EU are paid more than their counterparts in the US. Taxes are generally higher (as are the benefits that most citizens receive) as well. Real estate is usually more expensive as well, and carries its own set of taxes.

    The bottom line is that all of these costs get passed on to the consumer. I personally applaud Apple's strategy of passing on those costs to the consumers who actually live in those regions that generate extra costs. Other companies simply take all expenses into account and come up with a global price--which is not fair to consumers in lower cost regions.
  24. weckart macrumors 601

    Nov 7, 2004
    Zero% pretty much everywhere in Europe on computers and software.

    Irrelevant. These things are not manufactured in Europe. There is one instance of VAT slapped on these things and that is the input rate on the finished article on import into the country. This is offset by the output rate collected on the retail price in each country where it is sold.

    Whatever the average EU citizen pays in taxes, the average American has to pay by way of health or education plans. Things cost and don't occur in a vacuum. In short for all the taxes Apple pays for its European staff, it has to compensate its US staff directly in wages. The average wage in the US is not as low as it is in Portugal, for instance.
    Real estate in the US can be astronomical, too. Particularly in the marquee sites in large cities that Apple prefers.
    The main cost difference appears to lie in the better consumer laws in Europe, but these only really affect those companies who produce shoddy products that need constant repairs, replacement or refunds. I would be surprised given how much Apple trumpets its customer satisfaction rating that Apple is particularly afflicted with this. It doesn't explain the big mark ups that Europeans et al have to bear after taking tax etc in consideration.

    Other US companies, like Dell don't seem to have to gouge as much and its operating model is not a world away from Apple's. Manufacture in the Far East, flog everywhere else.

    Apple is profitable and fashionable at the moment. That is why it does what it does. Because it can get away with it. That is all the justification it needs. Apple is not your mother, brother, friend, or anyone who cares about you. It is a cold, business organisation which is only interested in creating wealth for its shareholders. The minute you stop paying for its products is the second Apple stops caring whether you exist or not. The quicker people recognise and remember this, the better.
  25. MacHamster68, Jul 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2011

    MacHamster68 macrumors 68040


    Sep 17, 2009
    you buy products of a american company after all , despite the fact that they ship from china certainly did not want a chinese branded mini or ?, ok it would cost less then half the price if made with the exact same components and in the same factory by the same people
    and shipped through some online store ,
    but Apple wants to live too, all the Apple employees, and of course alle those fancy Apple stores in major cities need to be financed too , and what do you think those big stores in Berlin , Paris, Rome ,London ...... cost per month ? someone has to pay for all that and the one is the customer pay for 331 stores worldwide , and with that in mind the mini is actually a bargain :rolleyes:

    thats is what you finance with your purchase

    and not to forget OSX needs to be payed for too

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