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EU Finds Apple Lacking in Efforts to Address In-App Payment Issues
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Who are you to call developers greedy? Um many people's hard work goes into apps not just us "greedy" developers. You use the apps everyday then you need to pay for it. The servers that sit behind the apps aren't free.
charlituna
macrumors G3
It's more a case of not paying attention to your kids and what they are doing. Whether it's paying with an iPad, playing with chemicals in the back yard or whatever.
And don't be like the guys that told his kid the account password and then also didn't look at his credit card bill for six months cause he thought it was paid off. If he had opened the bill he would have seen the first charges and stopped it before he got in trouble with the bank for nonpayment etc.
Do you boo. However, no one has your best interest at heart. Everything you buy you are being sold.
Eh, I am really torn on this. Increasingly this has turned into "treat all consumers as though they are ten years old, hold their hands through every step and difficulty they may encounter, and give them everything they want".
I do agree that the fifteen minute window was bad, however, and I'm glad that Apple is getting attention for it and changing it. I also hate games like Two Dots, where they make you wait for upwards of ten minutes unless you - surprise - buy such and such. I deleted the app because the longer I played the more I realised that they were using it as a blatant cash grab. I hate ads but I would rather deal with ads than deal with that sort of crap.
So if this makes Apple crack down on this sort of stuff, I am all for it.
(Also, MacRumors, really? Stop saying that Apple "tattled" on Google. They are not schoolchildren, they are huge corporations and if one is going to be held to a certain standard the other should be as well.)
Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
No. I don't want the App Store further cluttered with the same app, one free and one paid. Give me one app and let me upgrade in-app if I chose to do so. Maybe there needs to be different rules for games but I still wouldn't want to see two versions of every app in the store.
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Ok I'll bite: what's your source for 99% of the App Store being crapware?
Oletros
macrumors 603
Yes, that would be a ban but that was not what happened.
When a government make a regulation with 5 years to change your products in a simple way and you don't change them they are not banning your product
charlituna
macrumors G3
Actually in some cases it can be. There are apps that are just viewers which are listed as free, implying that the service is also free, but it's not. That is the sort of thing that the EU is balking about. If you have to pay for a service to have any content in the app then it is not free and should not say fees. I rather agree with that point. Not sure what it should say but they could come up with something. Perhaps just 'install player' and a pop up that says that is just the viewer app and using it requires a subscription etc and has folks confirm they want it. By a similar token when the whole iOS 8 parent permission request thing kicks in it could require permission for downloading even free games that have IAP and let parents know this. Perhaps when bar IAP on an account level rather than device level.
nsayer
macrumors 65816
Doing business in Europe
I make and sell small electronic things.
I can't sell them in Europe because of RoHS, and lead-free solder is just too onerous to work with.
More and more, Europe is just becoming too difficult a market to deal with because of the increasing burdens of EU regulations. How much more of this before large businesses just decide that Europe isn't worth the bother?
I make and sell small electronic things.
I can't sell them in Europe because of RoHS, and lead-free solder is just too onerous to work with.
More and more, Europe is just becoming too difficult a market to deal with because of the increasing burdens of EU regulations. How much more of this before large businesses just decide that Europe isn't worth the bother?
Oletros
macrumors 603
whooleytoo
macrumors 604
Looks good - but it needs to be really simple to use. It wouldn't surprise me if many children are more tech-savvy (or at least, more determined! 🙂 ) than the parents who own the devices.
Ideally a button in the iOS7 control centre to Lock to current app - so you can't leave and use another app without password, IAP is disabled and notifications are disabled. Maybe make it context-sensitive? So if you hit the button in an app it limits them to that app, if you hit the button in a Home screen folder it restricts them to the apps in that folder.
Oletros
macrumors 603
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word monopoly. Apple does not have the only app store in the world.
charlituna
macrumors G3
Very few game IAP are that high. Developers like the whole 99 cents thing cause folks don't think as much about paying that little even when it's a one time use thing and they do it 100 times without really thinking. If it's $99.99 almost everyone stops to consider what they are getting for it. And many don't do it.
It's called consumer protection! Free-market capitalism has its faults. This is one way of addressing these issues.
charlituna
macrumors G3
The confusion comes from folks not understanding what the market is. Years ago Apple was hit with a monopoly charge by a company that wanted the courts to let them create and sell hackintosh systems because Apple has a monopoly in the Macintosh market. Only the courts ruled that there is no 'Macintosh market' and that Apple is part of the personal computer system market and has no market power to abuse there etc. Same with smartphones, tablets etc. There is no iPhone market or iPad market.
OtherJesus
macrumors 6502
While I detest IAP, I have to agree that I detest nanny state government even more.
There are plenty of restrictions parents can put turn on in iOS. Furthermore, they can opt to have a "none" payment option or give their kids gift cards.
charlituna
macrumors G3
How is what you are saying more simple than a saved mode that could potentially be tied to the passcode. Junior enters his passcode of 1234 and gets a fully restricted mode that shows literally just his face games and the copy of Cars that is loaded in the Video App. Versus I enter my passcode of H2&xx19lO!mK (which means something to me but he has no clue about it) and I see my mail, safari, my episodes of true blood and breaking bad, the App Store etc.
Sure it takes a little longer to set up but it covers all items and I don't have to go in and turn them on and off all the time nor do I have to restrict him to one game or app like Guided Access does. And since the device can't be restored without my Apple ID password cause I have find my turned on even if he's savvy enough go know how to do a DFU he won't be able to get back in anyway.
now arguing that the options for IAP should disappear if buying them in restricted, or being able to turn them off during searches on an account level for junior can't see any apps that have IAP (nor games, shows, movie, book listings above his age), ok that I can agree with. Setting up a mode so that find my is tied to my iCloud and not his so he can't erase to get around the rules in his personal iPad, yeah I'll agree with that as part of restricted mode.
Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
Apps that require a subscription to work should say "subscription required" rather than "free" with "offers in-app purchases" below. Maybe games that require IAP to progress could be labeled as "free to try" or something. Not sure it will matter though as the kids who don't understand any of this (and are allowed to use a parents device unsupervised) probably won't understand the different labels either.
iChrist
macrumors 65816
1.2 million apps. Would you say there are over 12,000 apps worth paying for, not poor imitations of another app, or try to trick you into IAPs?
Obviously it wasn't a percentage based on anything, more of an exaggeration, but actually, maybe it's over 99%. Who knows.
at least they are working to protect us, not rip us off as much as possible. $1000 for a bucket of blue berries in a free kids app, is nothing more than scam. Especially when the password unlocked all you can buy for 15min without passwords.
iChrist
macrumors 65816
Many apps, especially games, offer purchases that high, in addition to $0.99. Is that a genuine offer to a paying customer? Or are they just trying to fleece someone who's not paying attention (like a child)?
macduke
macrumors G5
Clearly the only solution that would make these people happy is to eliminate in-app purchases altogether. I, for one, support this endeavor. DOWN WITH IAP! Haha. But seriously, yeskill IAP. Especially in games. It's been ruining the App Store for years now. In it's place, allow for time-limited trials of apps. I know there are a lot of legit apps that are limited and you unlock the features with IAP. Just replace that with a dialog box that pops up after a specified period of time. They can choose to buy it or delete it. Done. Then we can put all the parasitic game companies like King out of business.
While they're at it, they should also add something I've been wanting in the App Store for a while: AAA Games section. Established AAA gaming studios would be invited, and newcomers would need to be vetted for the quality of the game. Set a minimum price of $29.99, a maximum price of $49.99, and allow developers to lower the price down to $19.99 or something when the game goes "gold" or sells a fixed number of copies, much like console makers do with hit games that are a year or two old. IMO this would help establish iOS as a premium gaming platform, as developers could set fair prices in their own section of the store. People would be more assured that their money is going towards a higher quality game with tons of content and replay value, instead of some 99 cent game which could be terrible. I'm all for indie gaming (and the App Store is overflowing with it), but I think that the App Store should also have a section for the big boys so that they might be more likely to port their games to iOS, and accessory makers would be more likely to create new controllers and compete in that space by lowering prices. Throw in a new Apple TV with App Store support and much faster graphics capabilities and suddenly Apple has their own console. Yes, these machines are getting to the point where they're at least as capable as an Xbox 360 or PS3 (especially with the new Metal API), and I'm fairly certain that my iPad will be faster than my Xbox One before the next generation of Xbox comes out, likely sometime after 2020 if the previous generation is any indication.
While they're at it, they should also add something I've been wanting in the App Store for a while: AAA Games section. Established AAA gaming studios would be invited, and newcomers would need to be vetted for the quality of the game. Set a minimum price of $29.99, a maximum price of $49.99, and allow developers to lower the price down to $19.99 or something when the game goes "gold" or sells a fixed number of copies, much like console makers do with hit games that are a year or two old. IMO this would help establish iOS as a premium gaming platform, as developers could set fair prices in their own section of the store. People would be more assured that their money is going towards a higher quality game with tons of content and replay value, instead of some 99 cent game which could be terrible. I'm all for indie gaming (and the App Store is overflowing with it), but I think that the App Store should also have a section for the big boys so that they might be more likely to port their games to iOS, and accessory makers would be more likely to create new controllers and compete in that space by lowering prices. Throw in a new Apple TV with App Store support and much faster graphics capabilities and suddenly Apple has their own console. Yes, these machines are getting to the point where they're at least as capable as an Xbox 360 or PS3 (especially with the new Metal API), and I'm fairly certain that my iPad will be faster than my Xbox One before the next generation of Xbox comes out, likely sometime after 2020 if the previous generation is any indication.
00sjsl
macrumors regular
Courts/Governments don't like to get into design since then they get the blame if the feature is implemented is a stupid way, e.g. browser choice.