EU iTunes Antitrust Probe

[Mac-Addict]

BBC just reported live about this story on BBC One 6PM News and seemed very much againts apple which they should be! Apple is over charging on uk customers for no reason, Why should I have to pay nearly £1, when people in amercia at the current rate pay around 50p or in the rest of europe where the you pay 99cents for a song which is about 60p.

 

[SeaFox]

BBC just reported live about this story on BBC One 6PM News and seemed very much againts apple which they should be! Apple is over charging on uk customers for no reason, Why should I have to pay nearl £1 when people in amercia at the current rate pay around 50p!

Why do I have to pay $45 for a CD by a Japanese artist on Amazon when American artists are ~$15? It doesn't cost $30 to ship overseas!

Your complaint has nothing to do with the current issue, you're just pissed at Apple for not pricing strictly according to exchange rates.

Even if the EU "wins" in this case the price difference would still be there. This is about the fact Apple should be charging the same price (I guess in Euros) and making the same tracks available for all EU countries. It has no effect on differences between the U.S. iTMS and the British iTMS. The effect could very well be everyone in Europe pays the same premium Britain pays after this.

 

[Uragon]

Indeed. The Slashdot commentary was most interesting, especially this post.

Thanks for the link. It makes more sense now. Hope this get settled soon for the benefit of the consumers (EU).

 

[BoyBach]

It's about time. I, for one, am totally fed-up of over paying for consumer electronics and cars amongst other things here in the UK.

If this means cheaper iTunes tracks and iPods it'll go a little towards appeasing me.

 

[princealfie]

You as the end consumer doesn't. Apple, etc. as the distributor does.

Still that's lame. That's why I prefer listening to pop music from Russia or Ukraine. They keep things simple over there.

 

[BoyBach]

One European-wide store can only mean more David Hasselhoff and more Roxette.

Sounds good to me.

No, wait....

( )

 

[dernhelm]

In other words, maybe Apple's happy about this pressure You never know.

No publicly traded international company would EVER by happy about a lawsuit brought against it by the EU. Until this is resolved, this can do nothing other than depress their stock (even if only by a little) as some investors will get skittish about such a lawsuit. Especially with ~$500M fines being bandied about.

That isn't to say that Apple can't use this opportunity to "make lemonade" (as it were), and get the music industry to see the stupidity of their ways.

But believe me, Apple isn't happy about this in the least.

 

[BoyBach]

The European Commision just means a lot of bureaucracy and socialistic stuff. And nobody in EU actually understands what that guys really want.

Huh, I live in EU my whole life (ok, the life is not THAT long) and I really don't like the way EU is heading. It's not only some musical stuff, it's more about bureaucracy and - what comes with bureaucracy - corruption.

I like the free market idea - and I hate socialistic / communistic idea of "shaping the market to the right form". Who say what is the right form? Only market itself.

This is more or less question of politics; however, if your country is in EU and the country want to be more liberal and less dependent on Brussels, they call you "euro-skeptic".

As I said before - the market has to shape the market, not the government. And that's why U.S.A. will still be more succesful in economics than whole EU. It's that simple I think.

More bureaucracy you say? The EU is responsible for the more than 490 million citizens of it's member countries yet it has only 24,000 employees (that's less than the BBC). I'd say that's very little bureaucracy for such a large organisation.

Also, I can't quite bring myself to get mad at the 'bureaucrats' for making it easier for me to travel and shop freely within the EU, and giving me human rights enshrined in law, and giving me the right to free medical aid when I travel in the EU, and I won't mention the Objective One funding to my local area, and...well you get the idea.

 

[princealfie]

The EU rocks compared to what we have here eh?

 

[Poff]

There are now laws, rules, that tries to limit the monopolistic tendencies of a particular company or industries in a free-market concept.

Exactly my point. And with no such laws, consumers loose. That's why the free-market concept, which the poster I replied to was in favour of, will never work in reality.

 

[princealfie]

Yeah it's the free market that allows companies like Microsoft and other behemoths to survive.

So much for your free market idea allowing for more choice. Certainly not!

 

[Unspeaked]

BBC just reported live about this story on BBC One 6PM News and seemed very much againts apple which they should be! Apple is over charging on uk customers for no reason, Why should I have to pay nearly £1, when people in amercia at the current rate pay around 50p or in the rest of europe where the you pay 99cents for a song which is about 60p.

That's interesting - from my trips to the UK, I seem to recall HMV, Virgin and Tesco selling CDs for around £10-15.

Here in the US, the same discs go for around $10-20.

Also, I hear a PS3 retails for much more across the pond.

As do many, many other things.

All you Europeans need to refocus your energy on the general price discrepancies and not this relatively minor one from Apple, which just falls in line with music industry standards...

 

[Unspeaked]

Until this is resolved, this can do nothing other than depress their stock (even if only by a little) as some investors will get skittish about such a lawsuit.

Yeah, it's depressing their stock a whole lot:

(That's today's chart...)

 

[melevittfl]

Indeed. The Slashdot commentary was most interesting, especially this post.

Except that the Slashdot commenter completely ignores the fact that the EU is investigating the record companies as well

Yes, Apple may be at the mercy of the copyright holders and must abide by their wishes, but that's why the record companies are being included in this investigation because they could allow Apple to sell the music without restricting it to one country per store.

 

[Poff]

Yeah it's the free market that allows companies like Microsoft and other behemoths to survive.

So much for your free market idea allowing for more choice. Certainly not!

But even that is just free-market tendencies. A total free market would be much worse. (Microsoft is somewhat limited with what they can do with todays laws.)

The laws in a lot of countries prevents cartels, for instance. What if there were no such laws? Computer companies come together and decide they wouldn't sell portables for less than $3000. If then an upstart company tried to make cheaper portables, the cartel could temporarily flush their prices until that new upstart was broke, and then enforce the $3000 limit again.

So those "communistic laws" are good for a lot of things.

 

[Queso]

That's interesting - from my trips to the UK, I seem to recall HMV, Virgin and Tesco selling CDs for around £10-15.

Here in the US, the same discs go for around $10-20.

Also, I hear a PS3 retails for much more across the pond.

As do many, many other things.

All you Europeans need to refocus your energy on the general price discrepancies and not this relatively minor one from Apple, which just falls in line with music industry standards...

Comparing UK prices to US prices is always going to make Europe look outrageously expensive, but that's exactly what the Commission has noticed. The UK is getting charged more than other EU states. Take the Sales Tax off and the Eurozone prices compare a lot more favourably than the UK ones.

 

[Unspeaked]

Comparing UK prices to US prices is always going to make Europe look outrageously expensive, but that's exactly what the Commission has noticed. The UK is getting charged more than other EU states. Take the Sales Tax off and the Eurozone prices compare a lot more favourably than the UK ones.

Isn't at least some of this due to the fact that the UK insists on using the pound as its main unit of currency?

I'd imagine things would fall in-line, or at least be more transparent, if they adopted the euro system like the rest of the EU...

The downside of having incredibly strong currency is that you'll get the short end of the stick with these types of pricing models.

 

[Queso]

Isn't at least some of this due to the fact that the UK insists on using the pound as its main unit of currency?

I'd imagine things would fall in-line, or at least be more transparent, if they adopted the euro system like the rest of the EU...

Anyone here can tell you exactly what the pound/euro rate is to within half a cent on any day. We know we're getting ripped off, a feeling a lot of Brit posters are expressing in this thread.

Personally I'm for the UK joining the Euro but the majority of Brits, just like the majority of Swedes and Danes, want to keep their own currency, so it isn't going to happen. The idea that we should somehow learn to accept being punished for this is ridiculous. My bank can change its pound/euro rate on a daily basis, even with charging a small premium (around 3-4%). But there's no way I'd accept my bank charging me 17% for that transaction, which is exactly what Apple are doing with the iTMS. Why can't Apple bring it more into line?

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

No it doesn't.

The law is that every EU citizen can buy from any store anywhere in the EU. So, if something is cheaper in France than it is in Germany, a German customer can hop across the border and buy it in France.

This tends to harmonize prices (especially on goods that are easy to transport), but that's not what the law requires.

The reason why they have many stores is not to price fix, but to do with copyright and royalties over different territories.

In the UK for example, CD's have to be distributed in the UK territory and have to be marked with the MCPS logo on the disk, they cannot be imported from abroad.

Anyway, EU doesn't really mean anything for the UK, just to give our tax money to the French, Spanish etc.

 

[Poff]

Isn't at least some of this due to the fact that the UK insists on using the pound as its main unit of currency?

I'd imagine things would fall in-line, or at least be more transparent, if they adopted the euro system like the rest of the EU...

The downside of having incredibly strong currency is that you'll get the short end of the stick with these types of pricing models.

This has nothing to do with it. Norway uses NOK and not Euro, and they still more or less equal the eur-price.

 

[Drar3g]

Anyway, EU doesn't really mean anything for the UK, just to give our tax money to the French, Spanish etc.

Funds don't go to whole countries but to poor regions, therefore some areas in the UK must have received money from the EU too.

Besides, I thought that EU meant milions of brits (not exagerating) living in Spain and France, either studying, working, retired, using our medical facilities when the NHS doesn't quite get there, or even opening a bank account and enjoying cheaper prices on the iTunes Store

Greetings from Barcelona

 

[Queso]

Funds don't go to whole countries but to poor regions, therefore some areas in the UK must have received money from the EU too.

Besides, I thought that EU meant milions of brits (not exagerating) living in Spain and France, either studying, working, retired, using our medical facilities when the NHS doesn't quite get there, or even opening a bank account and enjoying cheaper prices on the iTunes Store

Greetings from Barcelona

Hola. Vaig a el meu apartament en Sitges aquest setmana per Pasqua

Oh and BTW, this is totally accurate. Spain, France, Portugal, Italy and Greece are all stuffed with Brits, and I'll be off at some point permanently too.

 

[macgpscs1]

This isn't about iTunes being more expensive in the EU than the US, or about a single EU iTunes store, it is about UK iTunes customers not being able to buy music from other EU countries' iTunes stores where it is cheaper. There appears to be a case to answer here as on the face of it this is against the EU trade treaties that set up the single market. A customer in the UK should be able to buy goods or services from any EU country. Whether it's Apple or the music companies who may have to answer to that case is another question.

 

[Drar3g]

Hola. Vaig a el meu apartament en Sitges aquest setmana per Pasqua

Sitges! Bon lloc per tenir un apartament

The UK on-line store may be more expensive than the spanish one, but at least you're one of the few fortunate countries to have Apple shops.

 

[SeaFox]

Except that the Slashdot commenter completely ignores the fact that the EU is investigating the record companies as well

I feel (and I think the poster was trying to get this across) that the EU ought to investigate itself for not enforcing the directive that the record companies treat the entire EU as one market and change any other regulations that this idea hinges on.

Yes, Apple may be at the mercy of the copyright holders and must abide by their wishes, but that's why the record companies are being included in this investigation because they could allow Apple to sell the music without restricting it to one country per store.

My question is, what was Apple supposed to do instead? Say yes to their contract and then ignore the per-country licensing and get sued? I'm sure the EU would have loved that, let an American company pay the legal bills for what was really their case. I suppose Apple could have appealed to the EU to start with: Told them they wanted to open a single EU iTMS and the labels wouldn't play along when they were supposed to. That would have gotten them nowhere as well. Once the EU broke up the music industry's market setup, the labels would just deny Apple licensing out of spite then.

This really an issue the EU should have tackled back in 1992 when the Single Market Act went into effect. Until the EU does it's own work, I think they have little justification in including Apple in this at all. Amazon has separate websites for the UK and Germany and I don't see them named in this lawsuit.