EU iTunes Antitrust Probe

[Queso]

Sitges! Bon lloc per tenir un apartament

The UK on-line store may be more expensive than the spanish one, but at least you're one of the few fortunate countries to have Apple shops.

Moltes Gracies!

Once Apple get their backsides in gear, I can see at least six stores in Spain; Two in Madrid, two in Barcelona, one in Valencia, one in Sevilla, possibly another in Marbella due to all the money down there. I think if they expand Italy quickly they'll have the resources to start opening in 2008.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic

 

[sjo]

My question is, what was Apple supposed to do instead?

they should have reported the cartel of the music companies and submit the documents to help the investigation.

This really an issue the EU should have tackled back in 1992 when the Single Market Act went into effect. Until the EU does it's own work, I think they have little justification in including Apple in this at all.

so i suppose you can name several stores that refuse to sell cds to a citizen of another eu country and that the commission haven't sued?

Amazon has separate websites for the UK and Germany and I don't see them named in this lawsuit.

you can buy from the uk amazon if you're german and from german amazon if you're british. no problem, just choose which ever is cheaper. i've shopped from us, uk, german and france amazon based on differences in prices, delivery costs and availability of merchandise. pretty easy actually, you don't even need to register again if you've already registered in one of them.

 

[killmoms]

Personally I'm for the UK joining the Euro but the majority of Brits, just like the majority of Swedes and Danes, want to keep their own currency, so it isn't going to happen. The idea that we should somehow learn to accept being punished for this is ridiculous. My bank can change its pound/euro rate on a daily basis, even with charging a small premium (around 3-4%). But there's no way I'd accept my bank charging me 17% for that transaction, which is exactly what Apple are doing with the iTMS. Why can't Apple bring it more into line?

Just us ex-colonists getting a few easy digs in at our former imperialist masters.

(Kidding of course, I love Britain, just... will never live there, too expensive!)

 

[kolax]

Come in quite late in the discussion so don't know if its been said;

Doesn't tax affect the over all price of the songs too? Fair enough we're paying more in the UK, but we're taxed 17.5% on everything (VAT), where as likes of Spain is 7% (correct me if I'm wrong, can't remember off the top of my head). That could lead to quite different prices?

Different currencies between the UK and the EU (£ to €) also cause exchange rate fluctuations.

However, does seem silly to be paying more for something in one country than another; but wasn't that the same story with CD's released in music stores?

 

[abbot]

Apple's reply does not wash

If what Apple says is true, then Amazon would not allow me to buy music or dvd's from their UK or US store either (I live in Germany), and I have been able to do that forever. Cannot even download the free songs from another store they are so restrictive!

This is really great news! Also means if we buy videos we won't have to pay double the price than in the US either... I hope....

 

[dialectician]

Excellent News! I am glad the EU is taking on this racketeering attempts by Apple and the Music cartel!

The DRM-free music offer by Apple and EMI is a step in the right direction. Now they just have to sell DRM-free music for a single price everywhere and stop seeling DRM music.

 

[Queso]

Doesn't tax affect the over all price of the songs too? Fair enough we're paying more in the UK, but we're taxed 17.5% on everything (VAT), where as likes of Spain is 7% (correct me if I'm wrong, can't remember off the top of my head). That could lead to quite different prices?

Different currencies between the UK and the EU (£ to €) also cause exchange rate fluctuations.

All iTMS European stores are based in Luxembourg and pay their 15% VAT rate. Also if you look at the pound/euro exchange rate from June 2004 when the UK iTMS was launched until now it has not fluctuated much at all, virtually staying completely within the 1.45 to 1.50 range. But that is once again beside the point. I should be allowed to purchase from iTMS Germany or France if I so choose.

 

[kolax]

Ahh gotcha.

Am I missing the point but why couldn't they just make a "Euro store" and currency conversions are done through your bank if neccessary?

 

[Drar3g]

Doesn't tax affect the over all price of the songs too? Fair enough we're paying more in the UK, but we're taxed 17.5% on everything (VAT), where as likes of Spain is 7% (correct me if I'm wrong, can't remember off the top of my head).

No, that's not correct. I'm not an expert on the subject, but as far as I know there's a 15% compulsory VAT tax which some EU countries may choose to raise (16% in Spain, 17,5% in UK) in order to reduce prices on selected products. Thus in the UK petrol or power have a 5% VAT added only. In a similar fashion some products are charged a 7% VAT only in Spain.

Furthermore some regions were given VAT exemption to compensate from geographical isolation, as happens with the Canary Islands. So, no easy life under the sun. Except for the Canary Islands, of course

The reasons for higher iTunes Store prices must come from somewhere else.

 

[Stella]

Americans have no concept of a government that wants to product its consumers.

Until they understand this, they have no right to comment on EU issue with Apple.

* I realise that not americans are so closed minded.

 

[shawnce]

Americans have no concept of a government that wants to product its consumers.

How about that for a little non-reality.

 

[Queso]

How about that for a little non-reality.

You say that, but all I've read across the Net all day is Americans putting down the "Socialist" EU for bringing up this issue at all

 

[Cult Follower]

There should be just 1 store for all of europe

 

[shawnce]

There should be just 1 store for all of europe

Apple agrees with ya.

"We don't believe Apple did anything to violate EU law," the company said. Apple said that while it "always wanted to operate a single, pan-European iTunes store accessible by anyone from any member state", it was "advised by the music labels and publishers that there were certain legal limits to the rights" they could be granted.

(and so do I... heck I want a single world store)

 

[aristotle]

You guys are not listening to what other people are saying. This might be an EU problem. The EU seems to think they can dictate what the artists and their labels want to charge for the "works". These songs are electronic and so they are not "goods". The copyright holders should be able to charge what the market will accept in each market.

I don't care if the UK is part of the EU. They still use the GBP instead of the Euro and they have their own taxation policies.

Until they adopt the Euro, they should not be considered a full part of the EU and laws such as this should not apply even to physical goods such as CDs. I recall speaking with people in Italy about the transition to the Euro and many of them complained about how their wages actually fell in relation to the prices quite sharply because of the transition from the Lira.

I suspect that all of the whining Brits will be screaming bloody murder when the UK does transition over to the Euro and they find how much purchasing power they will have lost domestically as well as abroad. You people really should shut up before you force the adoption of the Euro sooner rather than later and you end up with lower wages and lower purchasing power when you travel. You people do not realize that the grass in not greener on the continent.

 

[grendel9]

sorry you know nothing about free markets

But even that is just free-market tendencies. A total free market would be much worse. (Microsoft is somewhat limited with what they can do with todays laws.)

The laws in a lot of countries prevents cartels, for instance. What if there were no such laws? Computer companies come together and decide they wouldn't sell portables for less than $3000. If then an upstart company tried to make cheaper portables, the cartel could temporarily flush their prices until that new upstart was broke, and then enforce the $3000 limit again.

So those "communistic laws" are good for a lot of things.

A totally free market would kill microsoft almost instantly, period.
A totally free market does not have the laws that allow companies to do what microsoft has done, no patents, not copyrights.
You could copy windows verbatum and sell it as "Microsoft Windows". Most of the laws having to do with the markets cause the problems, prices are kept outrageously high by legislation that forces companies to spend more money on stpid crap, etc.. much of it especially the EPA stuff based on psudo science.
So no, a totally free market would not be worse, more government intervention makes it worse, the worst things that have happened in the last couple decades are extending or copyrights and software patents, these two things will slow progress and cost the consumer tons of money.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

I like the free market idea - and I hate socialistic / communistic idea of "shaping the market to the right form". Who say what is the right form? Only market itself

my economics professor would turn in his grave, at least if he would be dead

 

[Veldek]

My bank can change its pound/euro rate on a daily basis, even with charging a small premium (around 3-4%). But there's no way I'd accept my bank charging me 17% for that transaction, which is exactly what Apple are doing with the iTMS. Why can't Apple bring it more into line?

That's the everyday work of a bank. But Apple isn't a bank. It would be very inconvenient if you had a pricing system with prices that change every day.

This isn't a punishment for the UK not using the Euro. I agree though that if the UK had the Euro, they would pay 99 cents just like everyone else.

 

[macgpscs1]

You guys are not listening to what other people are saying. This might be an EU problem. The EU seems to think they can dictate what the artists and their labels want to charge for the "works". These songs are electronic and so they are not "goods". The copyright holders should be able to charge what the market will accept in each market.

The EU is not attempting to dictate what artists and labels can charge for their works. It is attempting to enforce the treaties which say that people in one EU country can buy goods and services from any other EU country. This isn't about the price being higher in the UK. It's about people in the UK not being able to choose to buy from somewhere else in the EU at a lower price, as is their legal right.

I don't care if the UK is part of the EU. They still use the GBP instead of the Euro and they have their own taxation policies.

Until they adopt the Euro, they should not be considered a full part of the EU and laws such as this should not apply even to physical goods such as CDs.

Well you can come up with whatever definition you like for being a "full" part of the EU but in law the UK is a member of the EU and so the law applies. Whatever you think about EU political union, these laws are about trade - they are not socialist laws, but are there to ensure there is a free market across the EU without countries imposing artificial tariffs and barriers. All people are asking for in the UK is access to this free market where if the price is higher in the UK than the rest of the EU, we can choose to buy elsewhere.

 

[Queso]

YI suspect that all of the whining Brits will be screaming bloody murder when the UK does transition over to the Euro and they find how much purchasing power they will have lost domestically as well as abroad. You people really should shut up before you force the adoption of the Euro sooner rather than later and you end up with lower wages and lower purchasing power when you travel. You people do not realize that the grass in not greener on the continent.

The UK is already paying way more for goods than their Euro prices. If post-adoption price gouging was attempted here, the only people who would make money from the transition would be courier firms importing packages from the Continent.

That first wave of countries had nobody to compare their new prices against. We would.

 

[BoyBach]

You guys are not listening to what other people are saying. This might be an EU problem. The EU seems to think they can dictate what the artists and their labels want to charge for the "works". These songs are electronic and so they are not "goods". The copyright holders should be able to charge what the market will accept in each market.

I don't care if the UK is part of the EU. They still use the GBP instead of the Euro and they have their own taxation policies.

Until they adopt the Euro, they should not be considered a full part of the EU and laws such as this should not apply even to physical goods such as CDs. I recall speaking with people in Italy about the transition to the Euro and many of them complained about how their wages actually fell in relation to the prices quite sharply because of the transition from the Lira.

I suspect that all of the whining Brits will be screaming bloody murder when the UK does transition over to the Euro and they find how much purchasing power they will have lost domestically as well as abroad. You people really should shut up before you force the adoption of the Euro sooner rather than later and you end up with lower wages and lower purchasing power when you travel. You people do not realize that the grass in not greener on the continent.

This isn't about the EU 'dictating' to companies what they can charge for it's products. It's about upholding one of the key tenets of the EU, that of the 'four freedoms' within the Single Internal Market:

The Single European Market stands for ‘free movement’ of people, goods, services and capital.

On a practical level, it means the possibility for EU citizens to live, work, study and do business throughout the EU as well as to enjoy a wide choice of competitively priced goods and services.

Since its inception in 1993, the Single Market has opened up economic and working opportunities that have transformed the lives of hundreds of millions of Europeans.

Removing the barriers that still prevent citizens and business from fully enjoying the benefits of the Single Market is a key aim of the European Commission.

Link