EU Meeting With Apple and Google to Discuss Concerns Over In-App Purchases

[KdParker]

Here we go again; let's make it everybody else's responsibility to protect children from incompetent parents.

It's annoying enough having to enter my password to get apps - especially free ones.



No excuse. If it's too complicated, then stick to a Nokia 3210, or at least do some research. There's plenty of help on the 'net.

If you are in the business of selling iPads (which Apple is) you don't want to limit your appeal to only those that will look up and research in detail how everything works.

So for those who didn't google everything about there new iPad, it is a small price to pay to add password protection on in-app/app purchases to help those that dont understand them.

Obviously, if didn't bother you too much. You still have an iPad.

 

[applesith]

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is: "time for the state to step in as business yet again proves if it can **** people, it will."

Time for people to understand what they are downloading/buying. When you click "Buy for $xx.xx" in an app, it means you are paying that much money. I know it's a hard concept to grasp.

 

[samcraig]

One of the reasons I do like what Samsung is promising with the S5 (not that I'm buying one). They have the one click solution which basically switched your phone into child mode where you can have sandboxed apps and nothing else accessible when you turn your phone over.

 

[2457282]

Have 3 types of apps

FREE
IN-APP PURCHASES
PAID

The latter 2 can be turned off in settings so kids can only play truly free apps.

I think it would be better stated as --

Free (all apple software is absolutely free, except you have to buy our products to run it so we get you anyway)

Ad supported (free to download but pay through ads forever and have google mine your information and target you even more so you click on the ads and buy more junk)

In-app purchase supported (free to download and occasionally buy something -- unless you are a unsuperviced obsessive child in which case you will buy $1000 worth of horse,er,fertilizer in farmville in 5 seconds)

Paid (pay NOW before downloading and we will figure out how to get you later through upgrade fees or something)

Bottom line -- you decide when you pay, but pay you will

 

[nebo1ss]

Time for people to understand what they are downloading/buying. When you click "Buy for $xx.xx" in an app, it means you are paying that much money. I know it's a hard concept to grasp.

You fail to grasp the concept that they are trying to protect Children as well. There was a case in the London papers yesterday where a Parent bought a child's game on the Google Store for 2.99 and gave the Device to their child to play with, who then was able to run up 2,000 in app purchases.

Surely that should not be possible.

Here is another example.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...our-kid-spend-like-a-drunken-sailor/index.htm

 

[parish]

So for those who didn't google everything about there new iPad, it is a small price to pay to add password protection on in-app/app purchases to help those that dont understand them.

Am I missing something? You can't make purchases without an iTunes account, and you can't have an iTunes account without a password, ergo the kids know the password to be able to make purchases - even free ones.

So, either the parents are telling the kids the password, or letting them choose it themselves. Do these same irresponsible parents tell their kids the PINs for their debit/credit cards and then blame the banks when the little darlings draw money out at the ATM?

 

[nebo1ss]

Am I missing something? You can't make purchases without an iTunes account, and you can't have an iTunes account without a password, ergo the kids know the password to be able to make purchases - even free ones.

So, either the parents are telling the kids the password, or letting them choose it themselves. Do these same irresponsible parents tell their kids the PINs for their debit/credit cards and then blame the banks when the little darlings draw money out at the ATM?

There is a long extended window after an app is purchased when other purchases can be made without re-entering the password.

In other words you purchase an app for your child and give the device to him. He can purchase additional apps or in app purchases for a set period without password. Easy enough solution to avoid this but many do not understand it happens.

 

[parish]

There is a long extended window after an app is purchased when other purchases can be made without re-entering the password.

Ah, OK, didn't know that. Perhaps that should be disabled - or made a user-definable delay with the default being disabled.

 

[osx11]

Time for the nanny state to solve all the problems for incompetent people.

It's called consumer protection. Something Americans unfortunately don't have.

 

[dampfnudel]

I have no problem with free programs having in app purchases.

I have a problem with pay programs having in app purchases and not being clear what I'm paying for with the initial purchase price.

I have similar problems with programs with multiple in app purchases and I'm not sure exactly what that includes and what I'm missing (I've now spent money, how many more purchases will I have to make for a complete product? or how crippled will it still be?).

Gary

I agree. Developers should offer a complete app version with all in-app purchases included and make it clear, at least better than they do now, how "limited" or "crippled" their free and low cost apps really are.

 

[4Apples]

Time for the nanny state to solve all the problems for incompetent people.

No! It's time for the government to look out after the consumer from moneygrabbing shady businesses. Any app developer who makes kids games for free but charges outrageous prices ($10-100) for in-app credit clearly knows what they are doing. Apple should had caught on a long time a go if they are really looking after the consumers best interest.

 

[kdarling]

There is a long extended window after an app is purchased when other purchases can be made without re-entering the password.

Ah, OK, didn't know that. Perhaps that should be disabled - or made a user-definable delay with the default being disabled.

Give yourself extra points for asking what the problem was.

So many other people who comment on this topic are clearly clueless (and childless).

Not that it had to even be a child. Someone in college could buy a game, then hand their iPad to their roommate, and that roommate could make hundreds of dollars of in-app purchases before the 15 minute window closed.

But it's worse that it happened most in games meant for small children, who do not know the difference between fake purchases (which are common in kid's games) and real ones. Games which the parents also assumed were child safe, since they came from a vetted app store.

It doesn't reflect well on any supposed family-friendly company, that they allowed this in the first place. On what planet does it make sense to trick very young children (as low as four years old, for the app below) to make $100 in-app purchases for virtual fish stuff?

 

[gnasher729]

It's more annoying if the kids fill up your phone with free apps.

 

[springsup]

Because their App Store would be full of useless trial versions and nobody would ever give Apple a cut of the game. The current model works great for trial versions where the program is free or low cost with more expensive add-ons. I buy lots if stuff from Hipsagram, Paper by 53, and other apps with small stuff to buy if you really like the app.

It's really just the lifestyle/ games guys that are trying to break the model here with their $99 berries. I buy stuff all the time... But if a TOY GAME has purchases over $30 I simply refuse to even download it. It's not that hard to look ahead of time, Apple is pretty up fromt.

They don't need a separate trial version on the AppStore - just a "Try" button similar to the 'Get Sample' button on the iBookstore.



Yes, it is nice how some apps (such as Paper) give you a complete (i.e. non-time-limited) app for free, but that could also happen in a trial version. This model would also require a single purchase price for the complete application, which I think is a good thing.

Consumable IAP is something I'm really against. I can't think of a single decent use-case for it.

 

[KdParker]

Am I missing something? You can't make purchases without an iTunes account, and you can't have an iTunes account without a password, ergo the kids know the password to be able to make purchases - even free ones.

So, either the parents are telling the kids the password, or letting them choose it themselves. Do these same irresponsible parents tell their kids the PINs for their debit/credit cards and then blame the banks when the little darlings draw money out at the ATM?

Yep. You are missing something.

This discussion is about in-app purchases that didn't require you to type your password again.

So. When your kid is playing a free game and are presented with a get more lives pop - up for .99 cents, the kid can hit ok as many times as they want without re-typing the password.

 

[Parasprite]

Do these same irresponsible parents tell their kids the PINs for their debit/credit cards and then blame the banks when the little darlings draw money out at the ATM?

I've seen this quite a few times, actually.

-Cashier at a busy store

 

[MattInOz]

If you are in the business of selling iPads (which Apple is) you don't want to limit your appeal to only those that will look up and research in detail how everything works.

So for those who didn't google everything about there new iPad, it is a small price to pay to add password protection on in-app/app purchases to help those that dont understand them.

Obviously, if didn't bother you too much. You still have an iPad.

Good Point if Apple want to sell more iPads

So if they put a limit on in-app purchases for game play credits of say $9.99 a month. Then the game providers would have to shift gear to trying to make more users instead of pumping the current ones for more cash.

And do it "reluctantly" to help the consumer.

 

[applesith]

You fail to grasp the concept that they are trying to protect Children as well. There was a case in the London papers yesterday where a Parent bought a child's game on the Google Store for 2.99 and gave the Device to their child to play with, who then was able to run up 2,000 in app purchases.

Surely that should not be possible.

Here is another example.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...our-kid-spend-like-a-drunken-sailor/index.htm

Disable in-app purchases for your kids.

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It's called consumer protection. Something Americans unfortunately don't have.

Protection from their own ignorance. People are stupid and expect the government to step in and hold their hand.

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No! It's time for the government to look out after the consumer from moneygrabbing shady businesses. Any app developer who makes kids games for free but charges outrageous prices ($10-100) for in-app credit clearly knows what they are doing. Apple should had caught on a long time a go if they are really looking after the consumers best interest.

Or people could know what they are buying and see that when you click to buy something, there is a price for it as shown on the screen. People don't like to read and then blame others.

 

[4Apples]

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[/COLOR]

Or people could know what they are buying and see that when you click to buy something, there is a price for it as shown on the screen. People don't like to read and then blame others.[/QUOTE]

...Or Apple can change the initial settings to require a password everytime you make a purchase and if people don't like it they can go to settings and change it back themselves.. but I guess Apple likes their 30% cut of sales.

 

[kudukudu]

isn't the default setting in IOS require that a password be entered for all in-app purchases? If yes, then how would a non-computer savvy parent ever fall into this trap? I guess there are one of two possibilities:

1. parents have given their appstore password to their kids (okay we are entering mental retardation territory here)
2. parents have allowed kids to have their own completely separate appstore account. I guess this would be a problem with older kids. Personally I wouldn't allow a child to have their own appstore account and password until they were old enough to have a minimum wage job so that they had some sense of the value of money (hmmm, is it work 2 hours of my hard work to buy a bag of gems from clash of clans).

 

[gnasher729]

If you include in-app purchases, you shouldn't be in the 'Free' section. It totally goes against the spirit of why there's a free section in the first place.

I'd say you shouldn't be in the "free" section unless you deliver the advertised value for free. For example, Candy Crush lets you play for quite a while without paying anything. You don't get everything for free, but you get some hours of an entertaining game for free. My UK navigation software actually works and gets me anywhere I want in the UK, without paying anything (I'd have to pay for maps of France, Germany, etc. and for other extras, but it is useful for free). There are other apps where you get basically nothing without paying; that's quite annoying.

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There is a long extended window after an app is purchased when other purchases can be made without re-entering the password.

In other words you purchase an app for your child and give the device to him. He can purchase additional apps or in app purchases for a set period without password. Easy enough solution to avoid this but many do not understand it happens.

Well, it's a tricky one. If I buy ten music songs, I don't want to enter the password again and again (that's where the fingerprint thing would be useful on an iPad). On the other hand, that could be solved by having a purchase list with a checkout and a total.

 

[garylapointe]

I agree. Developers should offer a complete app version with all in-app purchases included and make it clear, at least better than they do now, how "limited" or "crippled" their free and low cost apps really are.

I also wish apps that didn't cost anything to download but REQUIRE in-app purchases didn't say FREE, I wish there were some other word. I'm tired of seeing poor reviews on a product because Apple puts "free" there and then people complain it's not free.

Some apps, like WordLens, are free to download but then you need to choose a language pack to enable them. Language packs for the AMAZING WordLens are $4.99 and some customers complain that "it's a trick" but that's the way it works. Plus, in the case of WordLens, they also demo how it will work before you cough up the $4.99, so charging $4.99 for the app and giving them a language free is also problematic (the "free" demo makes it clear how it works).


Gary