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So not true.
I would love a more secure messaging however if the iPhone users are using iMessage that leaves you very little option on the non-Apple side. Not a personal choice; a forced choice.
That’s ONLY because you’re possibly attempting (for some reason) to use a Peer-to-Peer encrypted Apple controlled client to communicate with people on, say, WhatsApp. When, what you SHOULD be doing is using WhatsApp’s peer-to-peer encrypted controlled client to talk to WhatsApp users.

I’d ask why, but folks have been trying to use shoes for hammers well before today. I doubt that will stop anytime soon. :)
 
I get the impression that some folks watched a tech video designed like those infamous “5 minute crafts” videos that showed how you can take an android device, put it in a shaker with an iPhone, take an architectural diagram you find on the internet, print it, rip it up and drop in the pieces, pour in some hot tea, shake vigorously for 3 minutes and BAM, iMessage now works with all other messaging applications.

Those are just for entertainment only. :)
 
Guess we have different definitions. Not surprising though in this internet day and age.
What definition outside legal or official ones are there to be used?
The condiments and utensils are free at the fast food place. But if they aren't allowed to charge for the burgers, that would no longer be true.
They are free to charge for the burgers, people are just free to eat other burgers with the free utensils. Or eat your burger with whatever utensils of choosing of any brand.
And of course Apple's IP rights are violated. They licensed them under specific terms. The government is interfering in those terms.
Apples Ip law have never been violated. Apple have just been presenting under false pretenses that you license the software on your phone. Perpetual license in EU= purchase= no legal right to limit owners rights.

Just The big difference of EU protecting property rights and USA thinking they can license everything and pretend they still own it.
The working goal of a BANKING system is SHARING information. They reduce security to allow the flexibility of interoperability. There is no interoperability for messaging unless they, too, reduce security.
Well I think we can all be calm if our communication holds the minimum standard of banking institutions. If our money is safe then our communication is safe.
Absolutely right. SMS exists today for cross platform communication. It’s not secure, but it exists for everyone that doesn’t value security.
Irrelevant to the question of cross compatibility. Only iMessage can use SMS on iOS.
If it supposedly works currently, then no one needs to make any changes to anything. All good!
Only for apple to implement then
 
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Well I think we can all be calm if our communication holds the minimum standard of banking institutions. If our money is safe then our communication is safe.
Sure, now, all you have to do, is to get companies who have been communicating for years to their customers on the security of their network, to agree across the board to lower their security requirements. I’m sure their customers will LOVE that. :)
Irrelevant to the question of cross compatibility. Only iMessage can use SMS on iOS.
I don’t get what you’re getting at here. SMS works on EVERY phone, smart or not, and the phone certainly doesn’t have to be running “iMessage”. And, not just phones made today, it works for phones made YEARS ago… it’ll likely continue to work on every phone made in the future.
Only for apple to implement then
No, THEY are the company fairly disingenuously placing company’s logos on their pages, likely without permission, in a way that makes it APPEAR that they work everywhere.

In reality, a prospective user (not Apple) needs to set up their own server, then hope that all the destinations they want to communicate with sets up their own servers as well. “anyone can host their own server and have control over their data” Then, if they want to integrate with other platforms, they merely have to implement a their bridging solution to the services they’re focused on.

This seems like, to me, the perfect solution for those that say they need it, they just have to put in the work to make it happen. Of course, if they don’t WANT to put in the work to make it happen, then I guess they’ve just adjusted their definition of “need” slightly.

For the vast majority that really don’t have the time or skill or money to set up their own infrastructure, they can just use pre-built solutions where other companies like WhatsApp and Signal have already done the hard work to create the infrastructure, you just use their app to connect to and communicate with it.
 
That’s ONLY because you’re possibly attempting (for some reason) to use a Peer-to-Peer encrypted Apple controlled client to communicate with people on, say, WhatsApp. When, what you SHOULD be doing is using WhatsApp’s peer-to-peer encrypted controlled client to talk to WhatsApp users.

I’d ask why, but folks have been trying to use shoes for hammers well before today. I doubt that will stop anytime soon. :)

LMAO!!!
Let's try the real world.

Between clients, peers, friends, other contacts, work, etc.... I use Signal, Telegram, Teams, and Messages (Android and iOS versions). I can wish everyone would use Signal but in this Global society that isn't happening anytime soon.

That said, I wish we could do away with or move beyond SMS as a fallback.

btw - Apps like WhatsApp and others are not currently allowed by many businesses. Definitely not by primary employer. While many of my contacts in the EU use it for personal messages, not for work.
 
Between clients, peers, friends, other contacts, work, etc.... I use Signal, Telegram, Teams, and Messages (Android and iOS versions). I can wish everyone would use Signal but in this Global society that isn't happening anytime soon.
What I should have said is you should be using (whatever app they use)’s peer-to-peer encrypted company controlled client to talk to (whatever app they use)’s users. iPhone users will install the app you want them to if your connection is important to them. I shouldn’t single it out that way, that’s the same for any user regardless of their platform of choice.

BUT, I hear that if you set up your own Matrix server and configure your bridges properly,
then, get all of your contacts to set up THEIR own Matrix servers and configure those bridges… you can then use the Matrix client of your choice to chat with them! :)

That said, I wish we could do away with or move beyond SMS as a fallback.
The problem there is that, outside of the US, the telecoms are making a killing on .11 to .16 per message and would likely fight any improvements as those would cut into the profits. If you ask me, making SMS/MMS free for all of the citizens of the consumer protecting EU seems like something that would benefit FAR more people (everyone in the EU with a phone) than tweaking the business practices of a minority player in the cellular telephone market.
 
BUT, I hear that if you set up your own Matrix server and configure your bridges properly,
then, get all of your contacts to set up THEIR own Matrix servers and configure those bridges… you can then use the Matrix client of your choice to chat with them! :)
No, only one person needs to set it up, so I can use one application on my phone/computer to receive or send text/calls to any person without them knowing it. This is seamless interoperability.

Something I will finish configure after I get home from traveling abroad in EU

The problem there is that, outside of the US, the telecoms are making a killing on .11 to .16 per message and would likely fight any improvements as those would cut into the profits. If you ask me, making SMS/MMS free for all of the citizens of the consumer protecting EU seems like something that would benefit FAR more people (everyone in the EU with a phone) than tweaking the business practices of a minority player in the cellular telephone market.
Well as far as I know, sms/MMS are almost always free in EU. People generally just pay for data today unless you use a debit SIM card. We can call and use data for free in the 27 member states with the carriers we use at home. No roaming charges and text/MMS must be the same price as to a domestic number.
 
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More what is even close to true? Nothing is to be used for free by force. No IP is violated. And nothing is given away for free.

Xcode is free.
It does require a Mac though. There is nothing stopping Apple porting Xcode to Windows or Linux. With any luck they'll add iPhone coding to Swift Playgrounds this year.

iOS is free
More included with the price, like the prize in your cereal.

iPhones are owned by consumers.
And yet there are still things you cannot do with them because Grandfather Apple says it is bad. Did you not see the afternoon special on not accepting apps from strangers? Kidding aside, if I buy an Android chassis I can root it and flash whatever OS I like on it. If I buy a Mac I can do the exact same thing.
Apple AppStore distribution rights costs 99$ a year.
I've never actually seen a negative to this pricing and indeed I only ever wanted Apple to open up iOS for consumers rather than devs. Apple's fees and cut buys you hosting, bug testing, a foolproof distribution channel, free marketing and equal shelfspace. People describe it as a tax but taxes pay for all sorts of useful things from healthcare to education.
 
Sure, now, all you have to do, is to get companies who have been communicating for years to their customers on the security of their network, to agree across the board to lower their security requirements. I’m sure their customers will LOVE that. :)
If you have any understanding for cryptography, then no evidence exist for security standards to be lower.

Security wise there is no difference between iMessage to iMessage and if the end client is someone else.

A public key is always used.

iMessage to to iMessage= iMessage encryption standard.
iMessage to WhatsApp= WhatsApp standard or iMessage standard

iMessage to signal= signal standard or iMessage standard.

iMessage to SMS= SMS no security.
Signal to signal= signal encryption standard.
Signal to WhatsApp= signal encryption standard ( they use the same)

Signal to iMessage= iMessage or signal encryption standard.


I don’t get what you’re getting at here. SMS works on EVERY phone, smart or not, and the phone certainly doesn’t have to be running “iMessage”. And, not just phones made today, it works for phones made YEARS ago… it’ll likely continue to work on every phone made in the future.
I’m more baffled you advocate for sms to continue to be the standard with zero security for everyone today and the future.

No, THEY are the company fairly disingenuously placing company’s logos on their pages, likely without permission, in a way that makes it APPEAR that they work everywhere.
They don’t need permission as it’s public domain for non commercial display showing support.

Matrix works with all of them.
In reality, a prospective user (not Apple) needs to set up their own server, then hope that all the destinations they want to communicate with sets up their own servers as well. “anyone can host their own server and have control over their data” Then, if they want to integrate with other platforms, they merely have to implement a their bridging solution to the services they’re focused on.
Only one server needs to be set up, and that’s your own if you want to use the app. The other users doesn’t even know that you use matrix. I just need to set up a bridge to the other apps I use in order to centralize the communication in one spot.
This seems like, to me, the perfect solution for those that say they need it, they just have to put in the work to make it happen. Of course, if they don’t WANT to put in the work to make it happen, then I guess they’ve just adjusted their definition of “need” slightly.
If you want to stop using 10 different apps and use one instead it’s a solution for you.
For the vast majority that really don’t have the time or skill or money to set up their own infrastructure, they can just use pre-built solutions where other companies like WhatsApp and Signal have already done the hard work to create the infrastructure, you just use their app to connect to and communicate with it.
The one small problem that they use separate servers negating the very thing you want to have.

You can use a raspberryPI or your computer at home for a server. This provides for messaging services what apple does to email services
F2364293-492E-44AC-97AF-543A5C195FB1.png
 
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It does require a Mac though. There is nothing stopping Apple porting Xcode to Windows or Linux. With any luck they'll add iPhone coding to Swift Playgrounds this year.
Lucky for us some provide virtualization without getting a Mac as a solution. Providing what people wants but apple refuses to provide since 1679
More included with the price, like the prize in your cereal.
Well you can download it for free from apple so perhaps a mix
And yet there are still things you cannot do with them because Grandfather Apple says it is bad. Did you not see the afternoon special on not accepting apps from strangers? Kidding aside, if I buy an Android chassis I can root it and flash whatever OS I like on it. If I buy a Mac I can do the exact same thing.
Forgot grandpa apple knows all the dangerous things you should never do.
I've never actually seen a negative to this pricing and indeed I only ever wanted Apple to open up iOS for consumers rather than devs. Apple's fees and cut buys you hosting, bug testing, a foolproof distribution channel, free marketing and equal shelfspace. People describe it as a tax but taxes pay for all sorts of useful things from healthcare to education.
It’s more, if I want to side load anything today I need to pay apple 99$ a year to use cydia impactor for the privilege to sign apps and side load it on my phone outside the AppStore
 
LMAO!!!
Let's try the real world.

Between clients, peers, friends, other contacts, work, etc.... I use Signal, Telegram, Teams, and Messages (Android and iOS versions). I can wish everyone would use Signal but in this Global society that isn't happening anytime soon.

That said, I wish we could do away with or move beyond SMS as a fallback.

btw - Apps like WhatsApp and others are not currently allowed by many businesses. Definitely not by primary employer. While many of my contacts in the EU use it for personal messages, not for work.
Imagine having this on iPhone
A64A5A0B-EF0B-44C7-BFDD-E6D4F5FE0C61.jpeg
It would be so amazing that I could delete all these annoying space hogging apps and only use one to rule them all
 
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[…]


And yet there are still things you cannot do with them because Grandfather Apple says it is bad. Did you not see the afternoon special on not accepting apps from strangers? Kidding aside, if I buy an Android chassis I can root it and flash whatever OS I like on it. If I buy a Mac I can do the exact same thing.

[…]
that’s the free market at work. There is no requirement for apple or any other company that mass produces for consumer devices to design a device specifically for one person.
 
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Bad regulations are bad regulations. But like death and taxes here they comes.
depends what the regulations and taxes are supposed to do. Hence why we need to work from the same definitions and not make things up and use terms not applicable or do the bare minimum to understand how the market works that you critique.
 
depends what the regulations and taxes are supposed to do. Hence why we need to work from the same definitions and not make things up and use terms not applicable or do the bare minimum to understand how the market works that you critique.
Still and all, imo, I don’t endorse these regulations and I hope the downstream negative effects are readily apparent as the future will show the death of innovation for the EU.
 
that’s the free market at work. There is no requirement for apple or any other company that mass produces for consumer devices to design a device specifically for one person.
We don’t live with a free market and nobody wants a free market. We have a regulated market to balance the interest and safety of consumers and a healthy competitive market not dominated by few oligopolistic who can offer bad services and products for years as no competitive options exist.

French(EU) households can typically choose among five or more internet-service providers; American households are lucky if they have a choice between two, and many have only one.
A competitive market is more important than free market leading to stagnation
 
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Still and all, imo, I don’t endorse these regulations and I hope the downstream negative effects are readily apparent as the future will show the death of innovation for the EU.
and historical trends shows the opposite.

What then when EU continue to have a competitive market and USA continues to concentrate and stagnate in a oligopolistic economy?
 
We don’t live with a free market and nobody wants a free market. We have a regulated market to balance the interest and safety of consumers and a healthy competitive market not dominated by few oligopolistic who can offer bad services and products for years as no competitive options exist.


A competitive market is more important than free market leading to stagnation
Yes. We do not want an over regulated market. There always has to be laws and regulations. This is overregulation and overreach.
 
What historical trends show overregulation is beneficial to all concerned?
Well we disagree on the over regulation. But it’s making the market more competitive. That’s healthy.

Under regulating a market is also bad and will lead to oligopolistic Stagnation. This is what you see in USA happening everywhere.
 
I doubt it. I think it's more likely that it will give large companies a larger advantage over smaller companies that can't afford to create their own distribution platforms.
Can you point to any part of the legislation doing this?

NFC being open to all developers moves the advantage from apple to other developers on the market.

DMA allowing developers to chose their own payment option and or the ability to link tot heir homepage will move the dominance from apple to the market.

Why would smaller developers need to build a distribution platform when they can chose to:
1: use apples IAP and pay 15-30% fee
2: use Epic(potentially) and custom payment option and pay 0% fee
2a: Use epic stores IAP and pay 12%
3: use Microsoft’s store and pay 0-5% fee on any apps(not games)
3a: use Microsoft’s IAP and pay 5-12% fee
4: use Apple Pay and pay 0% fee
5: link to their homepage and pay 0% fee outside of their own overhead.
6: build their own distribution platform to compete.

7: distribute outside the AppStore an app apple thinks users shouldn’t have access to for random reasons

These options seems better than being forced to use only Nr:1 as apple stagnates in their services as you don’t have a choice.

Or google stagnates as they are the only choice.

The. You should read The DSA going to mandate transparent user agreements. Mandatory clear terms and protecting users rights online. No more content removed without a clear rule declaring what you did wrong
 
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