EU Officially Objects to Apple Limiting Third-Party Access to Apple Pay NFC Capabilities

[Unregistered 4U]

It’s like credit card companies welcome the skimming and stolen credit card theft. I just don’t get it.

Credit card companies changed the rules. If a shop accepts a swipe and that swipe is a fraudulent transaction, the shop takes on the burden. Many US companies switched to reading the chip JUST to avoid this (that’s why when you swipe and your card has a chip, it forces the use of the chip). Some have done the numbers and discovered that they don’t have enough fraud to merit switching the entire company over (new hardware, new wiring likely, new training definitely, etc.).

A study DID find, though, that as companies were switching over, the burden of fraud was shifting from the chip enabled companies to those that hadn’t switched yet. Which, of course, then accelerated those companies path towards the chip readers.

BTW, chip-and-PIN was needed outside the US because while the US has had "real time transactions," for some time (meaning merchants immediately sent off the credit card information to the issuer for verification… and could be declined immediately) in other parts of the world without a telecommunications network like the US, there was a lag between the transaction and when the merchant would send the card information. Meaning, those passing fraudulent card numbers are out of the shop with the goods before the issuer can do anything about it.

 

[shplock]

NFC is everywhere, and banks can have their card added to Apple Pay, right? And businesses that did not want to use Apple Pay because they wanted to charge higher fees or scrap purchase data created their own QR code-based payment systems, right? I ask because I am trying to figure out why the EU would admit that developing a mobile payment platform is costly, then make a ridiculous claim that companies would not create their own systems when history has show that it has not prevented issuers from either allowing Apple Pay as a processor (the same way my bank uses Visa, and only Visa, as a processor) or coming up with their own systems that utilize QR codes and other competing standards.

Because this is the EU and they are dumb and out of touch.

 

[Mojohanna32]

you can't use Apple Pay there? does that mean those big chains dont support credit cards since behind every Apple Pay transaction is basically just your visa / Mastercard? ApplePay automatically works anywhere, where there is a "Visa" logo here.

Not here in the US. Walmart has a "closed system" when it comes to paying by phones. I belive you still have to scan a QR code, make a payment, and confirm it at the POS system. Or something along those lines. It's not a simple tap to pay solution used by Apple and others. Walmart, as well as others like Walgreens, tried to go their own way. Walgreens gave up on their own system.
This is what does not make sense to me. Selective targeting of these companies based on the amount of attention it gets. Makes it look like a win for the "litte guy" but in reality, all it does is make things more expensive and not work as efficiently.

 

[shplock]

Uh oh
*Cultural shock for the EU being pro consumer intensifies*
......
......
......
*Sh*t-proof umbrella deployed*
Go!

More like the EU being their usual idiotic out of touch selves.

 

[shplock]

Looks like EU is not playing any games and there really is no way out of it.

Looks like the EU is being dumb and has no clue. When people get hacked and have all their money stolen as a result of this dumb a** move will the EU say sorry and pay up?
No, they will just blame Apple for allowing this, in other words create a problem and then blame the company for suffering from the affects of said problem caused by the lawmakers.

 

[bluecoast]

seems like Apple has been moving in the direction of opening this up, though not at the pace that some folks prefer.

Not a fan of using the force of law to make a company build a product to the specs that some prefer. This should just be a business decision

But Apple won't open up access to the NFC APIs on their own as they are all about services and every small percentage on each Apple Pay transaction contributes to the services division's revenue.

 

[shplock]

Apple has cited security as its rationale for not allowing third-party access to NFC

Apple either thinks we're all idiots, or that we're three-year-olds walking around in circles bumping into furniture.

Really?? You obviously have not heard of something called Google and the Play Store which is RIDDLED with malware, many to do with NFC!

 

[shplock]

Why do people defend Apple for this? Such restrictions severely limited iPhone’s capabilities. My friends are able to authenticate at the main gate simply by swiping their Android phones while iPhone users have to search for their card in their wallet every time. Popular payment systems in my country are also forced to use QR code instead of NFC because iPhones don’t have support (Apple Pay is available but nobody really uses it). As an iPhone user I’m frustrated by such software limitation and absolutely supports EU on this.

See the Play Store and many apps that use NFC to steal money and then rewrite your post.

 

[iOS Geek]

you can't use Apple Pay there? does that mean those big chains dont support credit cards since behind every Apple Pay transaction is basically just your visa / Mastercard? ApplePay automatically works anywhere, where there is a "Visa" logo here.

Nope. Quite a few places here who don't accept Apple Pay (or Samsung). It's irritating.

 

[6787872]

As the world is shifting towards mobile payment across the world it is only fair that the people has access to the technology on fair terms and not on the cooperates terms. Power to the people.

exactly.

regulators, bring down the hammer on apple.

 

[6787872]

See the Play Store and many apps that use NFC to steal money and then rewrite your post.

name 10 of these 'many apps.'

 

[GrumpyCoder]

See the Play Store and many apps that use NFC to steal money and then rewrite your post.

Yeah, we wouldn't want anything like this to happen on iOS: https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/07/emai...os-users-were-affected-by-xcodeghost-malware/

... oh, wait...

 

[4jasontv]

As the world is shifting towards mobile payment across the world it is only fair that the people has access to the technology on fair terms and not on the cooperates terms. Power to the people.

The cost of adding nfc to a card is so low it’s been in credit cards prior to 2000. This isn’t a cost of entry issue or abuse of market penetration. Apple made plastic cards less desirable, and banks didn’t do anything to change the publics opinion of that.

 

[SebCohen]

Basically in a US vs EU comparison. In the US, regulations are in place to make sure companies get protection against revenue loss and “unfair” competition. In the EU, regulations are in place to enable open competition so consumers get better (more correct) price.

So it’s company revenue vs price to consumer.

It’s an ideological difference. The EU does the utmost so no company can corner a market amd dictate the price. This ALSO makes the competition market fair for everyone. Even playing field.

Just look at the mobile phone and broadband market.

I pay the equivalent of 20$ per month for 300Mbps (edited from GB, sorry my bad) fiber internet.

I pay 30$ for unlimited everything mobile 5G, no speed restrictions up to…think it’s 300GB a month, then it drops to 5 Mbps but unlimited data amount at that speed.

I won’t even compare cable tv prices

 

[eqquito]

Margrethe Vestager is poking the wrong company.

 

[Duncan-UK]

Never mistake EU competition rulings as being in the interests of the consumer. They just want a level playing field for opportunities to rip off and charge the consumer.

 

[shplock]

I also find it kind of ballsy from Apple to claim that they are the only ones to understand security somehow ??‍♂️

Lets face it, anything is more secure than the waiter of American restaurants storming off with your credit card to pay. Every time that happens I am like wtf. Here in Germany, they are not even allowed to touch your card, not even to place it on the handheld for you. You have to do it yourself.

See Google Play Store and then tell me that they understand security considering the countless malware that exists there.
This is what awaits Apple if the EU get their way.

 

[shplock]

Just the fact that EU is standing up against Apple is a nice change imo. Apple is successful, maybe too successful, so people want to tame Apple before it is too late.

The EU has no idea what they are doing, some people just hate success and think nobody should be successful !

 

[CiASpook]

Lot of good input here I can see. The reason some banks and financial institutions have not opened for customers to use Apple Pay has nothing to do with security. It is purely based on that the loose the data insight when allowing customers to use Apple Pay. And as we all know data is the biggest financial product for the future. This has nothing to do with secure or not secure. The banks want Apple Pay to be more open so they can keep the data about their customers them selvs. And before you say this is not true, I work in a very large bank and the strategy for the bank is to NOT use Apple Pay as long as the bank can't keep the user data for them selvs. It's just a money game.

 

[shplock]

So thankful for Apple’s omnipresent concern for my security. Truly couldn’t do it with them. ???

Considering over 1 quarter of people use 'password12345' as their password shows how wrong your assertion is that somehow people are smart enough to be totally trusted with their security.

 

[EdT]

seems like Apple has been moving in the direction of opening this up, though not at the pace that some folks prefer.

Not a fan of using the force of law to make a company build a product to the specs that some prefer. This should just be a business decision

The specs should be mainly concerned about security, privacy, and ease of use, pretty much in that order. Apple shouldn’t be able to dictate terms for other companies and shouldn’t have to incorporate other companies *special* features in their software either. I don’t necessarily think that a government or banking group setting required minimum standards is a bad thing but the requirements should be primarily concerned with the app being secure and usable. If Apple (or any other company for that matter) wants to add feature ‘x’ to make their payment app stand out then as long as it is secure and doesn’t refuse to work with some other companies app then regulators should butt out.

 

[shplock]

I don't get how people still defend Apple with the same "but security" argument over and over again. Is Apple's system really that fragile that it faces major security risks at every turn where every other system on Earth does not? And how is "okay let's block it off entirely" always the only solution? How is that not suspicious? It's just anti-consumer and anti-competitive behavior.

I don't see how so many people attack Apple for this whilst ignoring Google and their awfully shoddy lack of security and not realise that if the EU get their way that this is what awaits Apple.
The same people complaining now will then attack Apple again for not preventing them from losing all their money in scams and attacks.

 

[44267547]

Because this is the EU and they are dumb and out of touch.

Well, that’s a bit brash.

I think it’s more of, they can’t put two and two together to understand what the definition of a security risk is.

 

[shplock]

I lean towards the latter but, in the name of Security (their rationale for maintaining shareholder return), it's likely both.
Their never-ending use of the term "magic" to describe technology and technological achievement is so cloying and, in my opinion, talks down to the audience/consumer.

Some people deserve to be talked down to when over 25% of them use 'password12345' as their password!
You could not teach people to be that dumb!

 

[4jasontv]

Basically in a US vs EU comparison. In the US, regulations are in place to make sure companies get protection against revenue loss and “unfair” competition. In the EU, regulations are in place to enable open competition so consumers get better (more correct) price.

So it’s company revenue vs price to consumer.

It’s an ideological difference. The EU does the utmost so no company can corner a market amd dictate the price. This ALSO makes the competition market fair for everyone. Even playing field.

Just look at the mobile phone and broadband market.

I pay the equivalent of 20$ per month for 300GB fiber internet.

I pay 30$ for unlimited everything mobile 5G, no speed restrictions up to…think it’s 300GB a month, then it drops to 5 Mbit/s unlimited data amount.

I won’t even compare cable tv prices

300GB is like a day of usage for me. I pay $45 (which includes taxes) for 1200mbps. No caps. Now… if I wanted cable tv it would be $120 mo….