EU Planning to Force Apple to Give Developers Access to All Hardware and Software Features

[dk001]

My apologies. I said “billion” when I really meant “trillion”.

and do you see the difference between them vs say, Apple and Google, which between them, make up almost 100% of the mobile market?

Or how Facebook and Google have effectively monopolised ad revenue?

Or Microsoft with their dominant share in enterprise desktop computing?

Even Uber, for all the negative press surrounding them, has managed to reinvent the staid taxi industry.

Those companies you listed probably provide genuinely useful services, but when was the last time you heard of any of them moving the needle in the tech world?

As a general rule, I feel that legislation should be telling people what not to do, rather than dictating what they should do, because this is the surest way to kill off innovation in the market.

Absolutely.
However I am also seeing a big difference between them based on who/what they touch. I deal with Accenture and SAP daily but that is on a business side. Very different from commerce side - Apple (daily) Google (daily) Amazon (daily) FB (never) etc…

Not sure from what perspective the EU would go after Acc / SAP / etc….

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

They have no idea what Security even mean - how can you make messaging systems interoperable.

Also are they PAYING for the huge amount of changes they are demanding for such a thing to happen which it can't ( see above ) - Also hilarious "they would have six months to comply."

Whats the point of making anything if the EU are effectively coming along and saying OPEN SOURCE all that. 40 Years of development, who cares, Redesigning communications ( along with Google ), 16 years of iOS upgrades and work - that's all ours now.

It's our consumer choice to have a closed system - I feel it's much safer and WAY more stable. Everything works as it should do for the most part.

Personally if I was in the EU, I'd get a class action suit ready to the EU for infringing my rights of security and substantially changing how our devices work behind our back.

There is of course one way around this. Create a 2nd OS iOS-EU that does all they want but can't access any Apple related features.

All Apple have to do to comply, is have iMessage use standards and provide an API. Same way every other software that allows interoperability does it. It's not rocket science, it's common as mud.

The actual problem is that Apple have deliberately created an exclusive, proprietary, non-standard, message add on to the standard text messaging platform. It's a mentality of profits over functionality. The world is sick of it. And by the world, I mean the world of iPhone users, the vast number of people who use Apple products because they are the best, but are continuously frustrated by this stupid, deliberate mentality of profits over functionality. And iMessage is one of many of the frustrating annoying "features" of iPhones. For those of us that aren't stuck in the selfish "us vs them", "iPhone vs Android", little boi war, we actually want to be able to exchange messages with people without the message content being limited because they don't own a particular brand of phone, and because only one brand has access to the proprietary, non-standard, message format.

Apple has dug it's own grave with this behaviour, the world is sick of it up to the eyeballs, and now they are paying the price, as now jurisdictions like the EU are coming down hard with full force, to make Apple open up completely, and far more than they would have had to do if they weren't so utterly stupid about how closed up their systems are.

I can't wait. I really can't wait to have this beautiful Apple hardware, with all the positives of the Apple OS's, yet with all the annoying restrictive negatives of it removed. Yay! Bring it on!

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Sure, let's do this. Ransomware on iPhones, peoples most intimate secrets will be auctioned or posted openly, financial fraud on a whole new level, massive spy networks with secretly always-on cameras and microphones, ... yep, good times ahead. No more secrets, indeed.

I know I won't be installing certain apps ever again. Core apps from specific sources only, never any sort of "game" or "utility" app. I'd keep my device nearly pristine default-only.

Clearly not a macOS user, I presume.

 

[lartola]

The big difference being is iMessage still sends/ receives SMS's.

Now don’t mix apples with oranges. The messages app is the one that still sends SMS, because Apple integrated both SMS (green bubble text messages) and their own service, imessage (blue bubble text messages, images, audios reactions, etc), into the messages app.

 

[lartola]

The world is sick of it. And by the world, I mean the world of iPhone users, the vast number of people who use Apple products because they are the best, but are continuously frustrated by this stupid, deliberate mentality of profits over functionality.

I doubt it is the majority, though. The overwhelming majority of Apple users are snobs who have become fans and just follow the brand. They will buy absolutely anything Apple makes at whatever price they sell it, and either don’t care about the limitations or will find a way to justify them (with Apple’s help, of course).

 

[svish]

Some extreme changes will have to be implemented by Apple if this is passed.

 

[Realityck]

Some extreme changes will have to be implemented by Apple if this is passed.

We do have iOS 16 coming up. Possibly everything since the Epic trial has been considered along with GUI and underlying security needing to be changed.

 

[H2SO4]

As someone from the UK, I both simultaneously agree and disagree with this.

I agree because that's why we left.

I disagree because quite frankly the EU regulatory environment is painful to run a business under even if it's an ethical one that doesn't screw everyone over.

I also agree because when we left it allowed our political elite to come up with even stupider ideas. Fortunately they aren't as competent as the EU so probably won't be able to pull them off or will backpedal like a hipster on a fixie trying not to end up under some truck tyres.

I wish we had the backbone to settle it. One way or the other just settle it. Preferably in, but if out so be it but let's just get on with it.

 

[H2SO4]

I never understand the argument that many make that modern vehicles are too complex for individuals to work on themselves.

Me neither. These days we have little excuse to get it wrong.

Step 1. Assess the job.
Step 2. Cost the job.
Step 3. Go back and assess the job, take your research to someone that might have experience, (there are plenty of forums and such like to help if friend or relatives aren't around).
Step 4. Ask yourself if you are competent enough to do it.
Step 5. Ask yourself what the repair cost is if you get it wrong, then proceed to either do the job or go to the dealer.

 

[ZZ9pluralZalpha]

While your at it EU, can I have access to all the engine management and infotainment systems for every car manufacturer ?

It is hilarious that every one of the worst offenders for ludicrously locked-down cars is based in the EU. Apple’s walled garden has nothing on the insanity that is BMW

 

[Beautyspin]

They’ll probably just pay the fine if the EU sets one. If not, and the only choices are to either comply or pull out, I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple prefers to pull out, despite the size of the market. It is extremely hard to make apple bend.

You mean like in China and Russia, where they bent themselves like a pretzel? We get it.

 

[Beautyspin]

Please cite all the Mac apps known to do the listed spying/data collection.

Does Apple Sell Your Data? Everything You Need To Know

It is completely justified if you want to know how Apple uses your data, and I think we have a somewhat complicated answer to this question

fossbytes.com

Apple collects as much data as Google on iOS. They show personalized ads too. Their Privacy focus is just to deny others the same data that it collects so that it can monopolize its control on its data. It is not due to its principles or altruism. Apple is just greedy.

Apple’s privacy changes create windfall for its own advertising business

iPhone maker’s share of mobile app advertising market has tripled in six months

www.ft.com

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Me neither. These days we have little excuse to get it wrong.

Well, there’s also the cost of getting it ALMOST right (I mean it IS a complex system) and, under some unforeseen edge condition, the system leads to the death of the passengers or bystanders.

 

[Beautyspin]

Absolutely.
However I am also seeing a big difference between them based on who/what they touch. I deal with Accenture and SAP daily but that is on a business side. Very different from commerce side - Apple (daily) Google (daily) Amazon (daily) FB (never) etc…

Not sure from what perspective the EU would go after Acc / SAP / etc….

It seems SAP can be a potential gatekeeper.

X-Raying the DMA: Who will be a Gatekeeper?

Lawmakers in Brussels and DC are fretting over what counts as a digital economy bottleneck. The metric is slippery and risks sparking a transatlantic fight.

cepa.org

 

[jakey rolling]

It’s not hard to see why the US has so many multibillion dollar tech companies, while I am struggling to name one from the EU.

SAP, Siemens, Airbus, Ferrari, Total, BioNtech...

Gee, it's not that hard after all.

 

[Abazigal]

SAP, Siemens, Airbus, Ferrari, Total, BioNtech...

Gee, it's not that hard after all.

Yeah, I meant to say “trillion” instead of billion and in hindsight, I should have gone back to edit my original post as well. Shall rectify that.

 

[jakey rolling]

Yeah, I meant to say “trillion” instead of billion and in hindsight, I should have gone back to edit my original post as well. Shall rectify that.

LOL. Need help carrying those goalposts, dude?

 

[CarlJ]

I don't see it like that. Apple has a big share in the tech market and with that comes a lot of power, this power need to be regulated, you can't have a tech giant making its own rules. Not saying that whatever the EU proposes is automatically the right thing but it surprises me that some people dismiss this conversation altogether.

That's insane! The point of regulations is to keep people/companies from doing bad things. You set up regulations when necessary to keep people/companies from repeating bad behavior, like killing people, stealing stuff, poisoning water supplies, etc. You don't just go "hey, they're big, so therefore they need regulating, now let's start trying to think of what we can regulate". That's literally a solution in search of a problem.

The EU at this point is making up stuff (or getting stuff suggested to them by well-funded lobbyists) because they think it sounds like a good idea. Not because somebody was doing something awful. And they're coming up with things that somebody who doesn't understand computers (and operating systems, network, security, and software development), think is a good idea. And they're treating the ecosystem that Apple has painstakingly built over the past 15 years (with a positively enormous investment of time and money), like it's some national resource that needs to be equitably divided amongst any interested parties. Basically taking away control of the ecosystem. If the EU politicians want a smartphone ecosystem, why don't they spend a decade and few tens of billions of euros building one of their own, rather than trying to nationalize the one that Apple has built?

And, "you can't have a tech giant making its own rules"? So now they have to come ask for permission for anything that they want to do? Will the EU be approving the sizes and camera specifications of the next generation of iPhones?

Save regulation for where it's actually needed. And stop taking disingenuous suggestions from companies that are looking enviously at the ecosystem Apple has built, and wanting a free piece of that pie.

 

[Abazigal]

LOL. Need help carrying those goalposts, dude?

I am doing just fine. If you would scroll down a few more posts after the one you quoted, you would see a follow-up post I made in response to another member regarding this.

I mean, think about it. The US is home to Apple, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Facebook, and each of them has undeniably played a pivotal role in shaping our current landscape and even way of life as we know it. Were any of them to have started in the EU, I doubt they would have become anywhere near as successful as they are today. The EU would have cut off their wings because they could even fly.

Heck, even Uber has managed to totally disrupt the way taxis used to operate.

The Digital Markets Act will backfire on itself and lead to less innovation and competition in the EU than in other geographies. And it's clear the EU knows this, and they are choosing to double down on their folly instead of reversing the damage they are doing.

Everything about this is absurd. There is simply no other word for it. This is nothing more than a blatant attempt by EU officials to slow down a select number of U.S. companies in order to give homegrown companies a heads-up. There is no justification for these tech giants being required to open up their platforms to perfectly capable competitors while at the same thing being expected to ensure that these same competitors don’t abuse their opportunities to harm consumers.

Consumers don't stand to benefit from this at all (as evidenced by how the EU is more interested in propping up competitors than ensuring users' interests are safeguarded).

Even more amusing (and dismaying) is how all it takes is the promise of usb-c coming to the iPhone to sway the critics.

Clearly, your country, your rules, but maybe pulling out of the EU isn't such a bad idea after all.

 

[cjbryce]

Lol, are you sure about that? iMessage isn't even a thing in Europe, they use superior apps that are interoperable, multiplatform, and do more than sending sparkly messages.

In a completely unscientific and non-random sample of one, about 90% of my messaging (with contacts throughout the UK and Europe and, to a lesser extent, the US and Asia) is on iMessage with about 80% of that in blue. The remaining 10% is WhatsApp.

As to "sparkly messages", I've sent and received text, files, video, voice and, of course, images. What else does a messaging app need to do?

 

[Michael Scrip]

While I'm sure Apple isn't thrilled about the possibility of being forced to open up iMessage... I bet Meta won't be thrilled about having to open up WhatsApp and Messenger either.

It's not just Apple who would be affected by these new rules.

And how far will it go? Should I be able to send a DM to a Twitter user without needing a Twitter account myself? DMs are a form of messaging too. Will Twitter be forced to "interoperate" with all other services too?

Hell... this forum has a private message feature. Should someone be able to message us without having their own MacRumors account?

?

 

[theotherphil]

Now don’t mix apples with oranges. The messages app is the one that still sends SMS, because Apple integrated both SMS (green bubble text messages) and their own service, imessage (blue bubble text messages, images, audios reactions, etc), into the messages app.

Correct...that's exactly my point, but WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, FB etc etc, don't even do that.....and they want iMessage to provide interoperability with other services lol

 

[JippaLippa]

Stripping iOS of its main feature.
Great...

 

[H2SO4]

Well, there’s also the cost of getting it ALMOST right (I mean it IS a complex system) and, under some unforeseen edge condition, the system leads to the death of the passengers or bystanders.

Yes, which plays into my point, it makes you question why they can come up with reasons to say we're allowed to do car repairs but not phone repairs.

The implications are far worse for a badly repaired car.

 

[H2SO4]

It is hilarious that every one of the worst offenders for ludicrously locked-down cars is based in the EU. Apple’s walled garden has nothing on the insanity that is BMW

You have heard of OBDII no doubt?