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Of course other companies would be affected, the legislation isn't directed towards a single company no matter how much users here try to suggest it, the difference is that there isn't much lamentation from other affected companies so all the information suggests that the other affected parties would just adapt to the new legislation without much fuss.
There’s not much lamentation from Apple either. What you’re reading on these forums isn’t from Apple, it’s from folks OUTSIDE Apple. Go to any other message boards related to any other of the affected companies, you’ll likely see the same. It drives engagement which makes money for the hosting platform, so it’s all good.
EU didn't demand anything like that from Whatsapp.
PS. Meta already threatened EU with withdraw from the market and voices from EU officials said: "go ahead". So Meta knows what it has to do.
If you read the details, interoperability is mentioned. As WhatsApp is end to end encrypted, they’d either have to a: remove a layer of encryption, or b: share their encryption keys with other companies. That’s why many folks are surprised with what’s being presented by the EU. Something that sounds “common sense” has many downstream impacts that the sponsors and supporters can’t possibly be considering. Because, if they were, they wouldn’t be bringing it up in the first place.

And, of all the companies in the driver’s seat, Meta is very likely the strongest. Meta WOULD lose a lot of money by being forced to end operations, to be sure. However, there are a lot of EU companies and governments that broadly depend on WhatsApp as a part of their infrastructure. If it were to go away overnight, these institutions would be far worse off than Meta, so I expect to see some exemptions for “systems and platforms used for official government communications and commerce” by the time this is over. :)
 
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I was talking about the public society, the media, public institutions, private companies and so on.
You know who else wouldn't care about Apple's lamentations about this new legislation? EU iphone users.
Public society would be turning against ALL of those companies, Apple (as with Russia) would just be one in a list. And, in the end, every one of those companies would be telling the same story… “We had to reduce operations due to the rules recently passed in the EU”. As only folks in the EU might forced to change the country of origin for all their accounts to be something outside of the EU (or create entirely new accounts) to maintain the features and to use the services as they were used to, it would perhaps be difficult (but not impossible) for a user to somehow focus on JUST Apple as the cause of the kerfuffle.

NordVPN may become the number one selling software in the EU!
 
Every company that operates in the EU does so by following the “current rules” and regulations. There are certain businesses that are not allowed in the EU by the “current rules“ and regulations, and many that ARE allowed to operate in the EU due to the “current rules” and regulations. Apple’s current business is one that IS allowed by the “current rules” and regulations in the EU. If, when Apple was incorporated, the “current rules” and regulations at the time didn’t allow for Apple to exist in the EU, then Apple wouldn’t exist in the EU… because those “current rules” and regulations at the time would not have allowed Apple to exist, no matter how much profit there is to be made. It’s entirely possible, and it’s in the EU’s right, to change the “current rules” and regulations to support or punish whatever actions they’d like to support or punish. And, there’s no requirement that the EU takes into account the impact their decisions would make on the companies operating in the region. IF a company reviews the updated “current rules” and regulations and the company finds that operating in the region requires an expenditure that trends too closely to that of the potential profits, the company (if it wants to continue operating in the EU) will perform an ROI assessment to determine if it’s worth maintaining operations in the region. If it’s not, then the company will do the fiscally responsible thing and curtail operations in that region. This is the same calculation that occurs with every proposed rule change. If (given the exchange rates) a dollar invested in Japan would return 10 dollars and a dollar invested in the EU would return 2 dollars, it would make sense to take dollars that would have been invested in the EU and redirect them to Japan even though the company is still technically making a profit in the region.

I do find it interesting that the legislation hasn’t even been written, penalties and fees haven’t been completely defined, yet you know for a fact that Apple would be profitable enough to continue operations in the EU. :)

What a strawman. Maybe If Then …
Kindly remember this set of proposed regulations is not Apple specific.
 
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RCS adoption worldwide is still low....only 47 operators in 37 countries.

Arguing that Apple doesn't provide RCS is laughable when RCS isn't a standard and hasn't been adopted by the majority of carriers. SMS is ubiquitous, is the standard and is available on every network worldwide. Oh, and here's the biggie, RCS doesn't have end to end encryption which is probably why it's being pushed so hard by the EU in preference to rich messaging apps that are already available, cross platform.

Your argument should be with the global carriers at this stage, not Apple.

Oh I wasn’t asking Apple for RCS. I’d rather see them create a version of the Messages app for Android users. They’ve done it with some other of their apps such as Music or TV. They could easily do it with messages. One more option is always welcome, and Apple’s would probably be much better than the existing ones (whatsapp, telegram, signal, messenger, etc).
 
Then why can't WhatsApp just send SMS messages? Apple's Messages app already supports that. If you're not looking for feature support, then it's already done. If you want feature support, then we end up with some sort of bizarre incompatibility matrix, listing "if you're in program X, talking to someone on program Y, then A, B, and D work, but C, and E through K don't work". Great experience that'll be. Government regulations is not the way to get good APIs to happen.

It'll also mean entries showing up in your messages essentially saying, "Message from a source that WhatsApp purports is Jane Doe". Apple won't want to just trust whatever name WhatsApp (or whatever service) gives for the user on the other end, and that user won't have an AppleID (that Apple can trust, coming from WhatsApp - what's to keep WhatsApp/etc from saying "oh, yeah, the AppleID is tcook@apple.com". So, your native Messages app can't trust the identities beyond "WhatsApp says this is 'foo'", and the Messages app only works with AppleIDs and phone numbers. I haven't heard anyone talk yet of mandatory phonebook compatibility between devices.

This also seems like a great way for scammers to send spam messages, from some service that's easy to get accounts on, through these new gateways, onto other services, with limited potential for the receiving service to combat the spam.

No one needs whatsapp to be able send SMS. Apple’s messages ought to support sending rich messages to other platforms, but not as RCS as imessages. Don’t tell me Apple can’t create a version of the messages app for other platforms. They have already done it with other apps such as TV (available on non-Apple TV’s and devices) or Music (available on the Google Play store for Android users). They can do it, they just don’t want to.
 
Imagine if the old AT&T was the only carrier you could run a cellphone with.

iphone users don’t need to imagine that: it’s exactly what Apple and AT&T did in the US with the original iphone in 2007. And Apple couldn’t do the same in some EU countries such as Germany precisely because they had laws prohibiting the carriers to lock cellphones.
 
Banking and finance, air travel, telecommunications, energy, health care and medicinal - they are all heavily regulated.
Regulation and forcing independent companies to expose IP are two different things entirely. The services you mention are regulated for customer safety, not to provide market opportunities for other independent businesses. The EU are pretending that their measures are to benefit customers, but no customers are being harmed or prevented in doing anything they wish to do. This is purely about enriching private competitors.

IT and communications have rarely been about proprietary systems and walled platforms. Computers have been able to exchange information across manufacturers and platforms for decades. There has been technical interoperability "since computing began".
This is not true at all. I've been using computers since I was a child in the 80s. Pretty much everything was proprietary. You couldn't run commodore programs on an Atari! You couldn't use the floppy disk drive from your C64 on an IBM PC etc.. etc..
The only reason you have Wintel is IBM didn't realise that not copyrighting the OS they bought off Bill meant that anyone could clone their systems. That wasn't by design, it was a mistake. Interoperability between any systems was an absolute novelty if it happened in the computing market. Especially home computing.

I as an Apple user am using the same internet access and internet protocol standards as my neighbours on Windows and Android. Same as twenty-five years ago, when we were using the same phone network with different - but interoperable - phones and modems from different manufacturers. And the same interoperable GSM standard for mobile communications.
You're talking about low level networking interoperability. Http etc.. are built on TCP/IP. But even that is not legislated. Its not a standard that you are bound to use. I'm not aware of any popular protocol/standard in computing that is legally enforced by a government to my knowledge.

The reality is standards happen by choice not by being dictated to in this industry. The reason is simple: There could be something better, so why force everyone to do the same thing? If something settles down and enough people see value then the standard prevails. If it doesn't, then it dies. The tech industry is just a process of evolution.

Microsoft did just that. Their success was built on low barriers to entry for developers, on the availability of everyone being able to develop and offer software for their platforms.

As I said earlier, MS's success was a fortunate accident by IBM that MS capitalised on. If you want to see MS's real business decisions how about getting access to MS's Word and Excel formats? oh... Is there .NET framework open source ...mm.. well C# is but the implementation? Same with Oracle etc.. Open source software began in opposition to these enterprise companies locking down their proprietary systems. To suggest that computing has been open and interoperable from the jump is simply not true at all. Far from it.

And lets not get into actual criminal behaviour that MS did to entrench their position as the no.1 OS. They illegally bullied OEM's into not selling rival OS's with their machines. This is on record. MS' success is not just built on "low barriers to entry" as you suggest.

But coming back to Apple: Mobile communication systems / platforms such as iMessage and Facetime aren't rocket science. Steve Jobs, in fact, boasted on stage how they were using existing protocols and pieces and planning on making it an open standard. These things don't require "ridiculous amounts" of R&D.
This is how it works: Every company needs to work out how to charge for what they do.
Both Apple and MS used to charge for their OS licenses.
Apple decided to roll their OS cost into their machines and services. That way they can fund what is the most important and difficult thing to keep going and updated, without asking people to drop 300 dollars every few years for features they dont use but are essential to the OS.

Services like FaceTime, iMessage etc.. bring differentiation that generate sales for their hardware which in turn, pays for building the OS.

Other companies make money by selling services and support, giving the software way. Other companies sell subscriptions, some one off licenses that last forever.

Basically it should be up to the inventor of software and services to decide how they fund their company. How they generate cash. Not some government lobby.

As I said, opening up services that provide differentiation is directly attack Apple's business model.
In the medical market you can't even buy third party blood sugar test strips for machines! And that's healthcare.

The EU are pretending the world is full of interoperable IP.. utter rubbish.
The only reason they are able to push this is the pretence that its harming customers. But I see no customers being harmed or even complaining about it.

As I said earlier, private companies are lobbying the EU to shakedown Apple. Its that simple. Its like corporate gangsterism.
 
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iphone users don’t need to imagine that: it’s exactly what Apple and AT&T did in the US with the original iphone in 2007. And Apple couldn’t do the same in some EU countries such as Germany because they had laws prohibiting the carriers to lock cellphones.
To be clear, Apple didn't use AT&T (it was Cingular when they started) as the only carrier as some sort of exclusivity deal, as you're trying to portray it. Apple was asking for things that no carrier was doing in the US at that point, and AT&T was the only one they could get to play along. If I recall correctly, the story is that they first approached Verizon and got turned down (a few years later, after the iPhone was an enormous success, and other carriers saw their customers leaving in droves to move to AT&T specifically to get the iPhone, suddenly lots of carriers changed their tune and were willing to go with the changes Apple wanted).

Before the iPhone, in the US, the "customer" the cellphone manufacturers were courting, was the cellphone carrier, not the individual user. The carrier decided what phones they would buy and then resell to their users. The carrier dictated what software was on the phone. The carrier dictated what features the phone would have. The carrier dictated what logos were on the phone. The carrier had their own app/media stores (which were generally abysmal). The carrier had a lot of (poor implementations of) things that they wanted to sell their users as a service, which are now handled by cheap and widely available 3rd party apps. The carriers made sure their logo was plastered all over everything. And the carriers really liked all this control.

Apple came in and said, "we're going to control the hardware and software, we're going to control the phone features, we're going to control the whole experience, we're _not_ going to put your logo on the phone, we're going to put the phones in our stores as well as yours, and you're going to make a whole lot of money selling voice and data plans to everyone - and if you don't take us up on our offer, we'll go talk to your competitors". And they got turned down a few times - and that's how they ended up with AT&T (exclusively) at first. People who weren't paying attention at the time don't get how big a shift this was in how the whole cellphone ecosystem worked in the US.
 
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Before the iPhone, in the US, the "customer" the cellphone manufacturers were courting, was the cellphone carrier, not the individual user.

...and you're going to make a whole lot of money selling voice and data plans to everyone...

Ah the simpler times.

When your plan was based on the amount of "minutes" you had... the number of text messages you sent... and your data connection was either YES or NO because they didn't count megabytes back then.

But today... minutes and texts have become so devalued that they are simply included. They don't even bother counting them anymore. And now you're actually paying for the amount of data you use.

Oh... and the definition of the word "unlimited" is still under review.

Wow how times change!

:p
 
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Don’t tell me Apple can’t create a version of the messages app for other platforms.
This is very specifically not what is being asked for in the regulations being discussed - rather, they're insisting on gateways between the various messaging services.

Yes, I'm sure Apple could write such a program ("Messages for Android"). It appears they haven't, for competition / business reasons. That's their prerogative, since they're not owned by the government. I would prefer it if they did release an Android version, but I'm not in charge, and I'm not paying the bills. Are you volunteering to pay for them to write and maintain an Android version? I suspect that at this point Messages also ties into iCloud and their other infrastructure in numerous ways. So you're looking at either a whole lot of expensive reengineering to support both iCloud-connected and non-iCloud-connected versions of the code, or giving (selling?) iCloud accounts to any prospective "Messages on Android" users. Again, this is all quite different from the main topic of this thread.

It could also be there are some patent reasons involved - that's what kept FaceTime (initially announced as something that would eventually be cross-platform), from actually becoming cross-platform - someone made a patent claim against parts that made it work in a distributed manner, and they had to redesign parts of the mechanism, which now, if I understand correctly, route some things through Apple servers - not something they'd want to do for free for users on other platforms.
 
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I doubt it is the majority, though. The overwhelming majority of Apple users are snobs who have become fans and just follow the brand. They will buy absolutely anything Apple makes at whatever price they sell it, and either don’t care about the limitations or will find a way to justify them (with Apple’s help, of course).
True, probably not the majority, especially amongst the low intelligence, low education majority. However, there are clearly enough people with high intelligence, and the power to do something about it, that are annoyed enough that the world over we have anti-trust cases flying thick and fast.
 
Yes.
If I could have say … Signal as my default messaging app and could use it to reply to any other messaging app.
and use something as the base default other than 40 years old SMS tech Would be a boon.
Herein lies the problem....the proposed RCS isn't a standard and is far from being supported by networks worldwide. SMS is a standard, exactly what a number of people in here are calling for, yet conveniently don't want to acknowledge that elephant in the room.
 
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The services you mention are regulated for customer safety, not to provide market opportunities for other independent businesses
Not all of them are. Interoperability of payment systems for bank transfers in the EU - certainly not regulated for safety reasons (though there are provisions to ensure customer safety as well).
The services you mention are regulated for customer safety, not to provide market opportunities for other independent businesses. The EU are pretending that their measures are to benefit customers, but no customers are being harmed or prevented in doing anything they wish to do
One of the main intentions of regulation of the payments market was exactly that: To provide market opportunities for businesses - and they've clearly benefited customers. I can use my EUR bank account in one country in another.
I'm not aware of any popular protocol/standard in computing that is legally enforced by a government to my knowledge.
I'm sure you're familiar with licensing and auctioning of the wireless frequency bands that are used by the very handheld computers (smartphones) we're talking about.

Payment processing is also arguably done by computing these days - and the EU has also mandated very clear technical protocols/standards for that.
This is not true at all. I've been using computers since I was a child in the 80s
If you've been around since the 1980s, you should have the explosion of the internet - that was (for the most part) NOT based on proprietary standards. Clearly illustrates the benefits of interoperable standards.
This is how it works: Every company needs to work out how to charge for what they do.
Tell that that to all the mobile app developers that are not able to freely work out how to charge their customers - due to being bound by Apple's terms. Such as the Dutch dating apps ;)
Basically it should be up to the inventor of software and services to decide how they fund their company. How they generate cash. Not some government lobby.
Exactly.

Only when there is a very clear lack of competition in the market should legislators and regulators intervene.
And that's exactly what we're now seeing with mobile phone operating systems and app distribution.
As I said, opening up services that provide differentiation is directly attack Apple's business model.
It is. Having obstacles to customers switching platforms is part of Apple's business model.

We basically have a duopoly of (relevant) mobile operating systems (iOS, Android) and app distribution stores (Apple App Store, Google Play). And a lack of competition in those important "gatekeeping" platforms. That is why legislators have decided it's beneficial to the overall economy and society to tackle the issue by new legislation.

It's only fair and appropriate to call that "directly attacking" such anticompetitive business models.
 
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Indeed I am. These are two different conditions with two different markets and two different user bases. Pretending and saying otherwise is a false equivalency.
You are not. Or you'd be:

Sure, let's do this. Ransomware on Macs, peoples most intimate secrets will be auctioned or posted openly, financial fraud on a whole new level, massive spy networks with secretly always-on cameras and microphones, ... yep, good times ahead. No more secrets, indeed.

I know I won't be installing certain apps ever again. Core apps from specific sources only, never any sort of "game" or "utility" app. I'd keep my device nearly pristine default-only.
 
Regulation and forcing independent companies to expose IP are two different things entirely. The services you mention are regulated for customer safety, not to provide market opportunities for other independent businesses. The EU are pretending that their measures are to benefit customers, but no customers are being harmed or prevented in doing anything they wish to do. This is purely about enriching private competitors.
I don't say this very often, but I regret that I have but one upvote to give you. Everything you say in this post is spot on.

This is not true at all. I've been using computers since I was a child in the 80s. Pretty much everything was proprietary. You couldn't run commodore programs on an Atari! You couldn't use the floppy disk drive from your C64 on an IBM PC etc.. etc..
Very much this. Personal computers (as in, computers that persons could own, before IBM co-opted the "PC" title as their own property) had lots of competition and almost none of it was compatible with each other. Competition is good, it helps us work out which competing bits are better (often, but not always, it's the better design that wins out). You don't have a government design, and then mandate, a particular format for floppy disks. For one, they don't have the experience or expertise to do it right, for another, they don't have the interest to keep iterating for a better design, replacing the old design when necessary.

You're talking about low level networking interoperability. Http etc.. are built on TCP/IP. But even that is not legislated. Its not a standard that you are bound to use. I'm not aware of any popular protocol/standard in computing that is legally enforced by a government to my knowledge.

The reality is standards happen by choice not by being dictated to in this industry. The reason is simple: There could be something better, so why force everyone to do the same thing? If something settles down and enough people see value then the standard prevails. If it doesn't, then it dies. The tech industry is just a process of evolution.
This! The entire fundamental underpinnings of what makes the internet work (and thus makes much of the modern world work), is controlled by standards that were designed and debated and tested, and then adopted, by companies and organizations, because they saw a need. IP, TCP, UDP, BGP, DHCP, DNS, HTTP, IMAP, NTP, SMTP, TLS, SSH - these (and others) are the standards that make the internet work, and they were designed by interested parties, who then agreed to implement them in their software and products, in the name of interoperability. Vanishingly little of it is required by law, and I don't know any bits that were designed/mandated by bureaucrats (that is, cases where a government came along and said, "I've decided that you have to use this protocol that I've thrown together" - I expect that in Europe, parts of the GSM standard and related standards are mandated by the governments, but were not designed by the governments).

And, yeah, before the current push to mandate USB-C, the EU was working hard to mandate MicroUSB, but the timing didn't quite work out. Just think how great it would be if they had made that a legal requirement - we'd never have gotten adoption of USB-C. The governments would be thinking, "but we've already got MicroUSB", and would refuse to change the laws.

As I said earlier, MS's success was a fortunate accident by IBM that MS capitalised on. If you want to see MS's real business decisions how about getting access to MS's Word and Excel formats?
The bit that really annoys me about Word/Excel is how the actual standards bodies were working on an open document format standard, that was coming along well, designing something that could be implemented by all sorts of software, and and then Microsoft bribed sorry, lobbied a number of small countries that had otherwise zero interest in the standard to vote for amendments that read into the standard a whole bunch of existing Word/Excel crap - if I recall correctly, there are literally places in the resulting standard that say, "or there can be this big opaque block of binary data here that is the way Microsoft Word does it" - which has no place in a standard, and is literally impossible for anyone besides Microsoft to implement. They literally ****ed over what would have been a good standard so that it wouldn't be able to compete with MS Word, and so that they could keep selling Word into government offices (that were required to buy only standards-compliant software), without having to make any changes in Word. This still infuriates me.

And lets not get into actual criminal behaviour that MS did to entrench their position as the no.1 OS. They illegally bullied OEM's into not selling rival OS's with their machines. This is on record. MS' success is not just built on "low barriers to entry" as you suggest.
Yep, Bill Gates is spending a lot of money now doing very nice and very worthy things (fighting diseases worldwide and such), but it feels more than a little like the robber barons of a hundred-ish years ago, who set up all sorts of foundations and museums and scholarships and such to try to make up for their previous awful behavior that had made them so rich. Like, couldn't you have done philanthropy after a long career of running a great and ethical company?

Basically it should be up to the inventor of software and services to decide how they fund their company. How they generate cash. Not some government lobby.

As I said, opening up services that provide differentiation is directly attack Apple's business model.
Very much this. But people on this forum (and the bureaucrats in the EU) keep telling us "it's for your own good!", in much the same impassioned tone of "think of the children!".

As I said earlier, private companies are lobbying the EU to shakedown Apple. Its that simple. Its like corporate gangsterism.
Yep. People need to stop saying, "but think of the children!" and start looking at who is paying for the lobbying behind these regulations.
 
Not all of them are. Interoperability of payment systems for bank transfers in the EU - certainly not regulated for safety reasons (though there are provisions to ensure customer safety as well).

One of the main intentions of regulation of the payments market was exactly that: To provide market opportunities for businesses - and they've clearly benefited customers. I can use my EUR bank account in one country in another.

I'm sure you're familiar with licensing and auctioning of the wireless frequency bands that are used by the very handheld computers (smartphones) we're talking about.

Payment processing is also arguably done by computing these days - and the EU has also mandated very clear technical protocols/standards for that.

If you've been around since the 1980s, you should have the explosion of the internet - that was (for the most part) NOT based on proprietary standards. Clearly illustrates the benefits of interoperable standards.

Tell that that to all the mobile app developers that are not able to freely work out how to charge their customers - due to being bound by Apple's terms. Such as the Dutch dating apps ;)

Exactly.

Only when there is a very clear lack of competition in the market should legislators and regulators intervene.
And that's exactly what we're now seeing with mobile phone operating systems and app distribution.

It is. Having obstacles to customers switching platforms is part of Apple's business model.

We basically have a duopoly of (relevant) mobile operating systems (iOS, Android) and app distribution stores (Apple App Store, Google Play). And a lack of competition in those important "gatekeeping" platforms. That is why legislators have decided it's beneficial to the overall economy and society to tackle the issue by new legislation.

It's only fair and appropriate to call that "directly attacking" such anticompetitive business models.
bank transfers are regulated for fraud and protecting the money supply. It’s not regulated to help private busnisses make money off other private businesses.

the wireless frequencies auctioned off by the govt were not intellectual property that was invented by a private company. They are just radio wave frequencies the govt allow companies to use. it’s essentially a physical location in the air that the govt license. A bit like licensing a physical area for fishing or something. Again, nothing to do with what your talking about.

if Tim Bernes Lee was told he couldnt make the world wide web software unless he created in such a way to allow other companies to make money from it, perhaps he would have said, “stuff that, dont tell me what to to do and not bothered“. Same with Wozniak, sir Clive Sinclair and several other inventors. It’s a ridiculous ruling in a capitalist country.

again payment processing is more about fraud than allowing business opportunities.

btw, these mobile developers are only mobile developers because a private company decided to INVENT something out of thin air that they use. These devs make out like apple is selling oxygen or something.. no, they are selling a system and platform that THEY made. They didnt have to make it. And you dont have to use it. its a free world.

how on earth you can be anti competitive on your own system is beyond me. when Nokia were selling phones that couldn’t be updated with 3rd party apps (even though it was technically possible) , we’re Nokia being anti competitive?

its a shakedown. thats all it is.
 
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The entire fundamental underpinnings of what makes the internet work (and thus makes much of the modern world work), is controlled by standards that were designed and debated and tested, and then adopted, by companies and organizations, because they saw a need. IP, TCP, UDP, BGP, DHCP, DNS, HTTP, IMAP, NTP, SMTP, TLS, SSH - these (and others) are the standards that make the internet work, and they were designed by interested parties, who then agreed to implement them in their software and products, in the name of interoperability. Vanishingly little of it is required by law, and I don't know any bits that were designed/mandated by bureaucrats
Arpanet and TCP/IP as foundations of the internet were mostly ordered by, for and according to orders from the (bureaucrats of the) US Department of Defense.
I expect that in Europe, parts of the GSM standard and related standards are mandated by the governments, but were not designed by the governments).
Wikipedia explains it: „The Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) is a standard developed by the European Telecommunications Standards InstituteETSI was set up in 1988 by the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) following a proposal from the European Commission.

So initiated by the EU. And a very successful standard at that.
 
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bank transfers are regulated for fraud and protecting the money supply. It’s not regulated to help private busnisses make money off other private businesses.
You may want to read up on the EU's SEPA regulation and Payment Services Directive to prove you wrong.

The interoperability and non-discrimination requirements are designed to help payees save money by having access to an affordable union-wide EUR payments system. And it's other private business (banks) that have borne the costs of implementing these cross-border payment systems.

And the Payment Services Directives are literally mandating banks to allow third-party payment services and other account information/payment initiation services access to their customers bank accounts.
 
Standard Oil, American Tobacco, Internet Explorer, Kodak, Apple's ebook pricing, Glaxo and Loews: all monopolies brought low by the US government in the name of consumer rights.
Scenario: Amazon controls the vast majority of the ebook market, and often determines prices to be charged for ebooks (going as far as to put people's books "on sale" without their agreement, if I recall correctly). Apple enters the ebook market with a system like the App Store - authors and their publishers can charge whatever they want, and Apple gets a fixed percentage of the price. Apple gets a tiny fraction of the market.

Result: At the behest of lobbyists, the government goes after Apple for their behavior in controlling the ebook market. Smh.
 
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Not all of them are. Interoperability of payment systems for bank transfers in the EU - certainly not regulated for safety reasons (though there are provisions to ensure customer safety as well).

One of the main intentions of regulation of the payments market was exactly that: To provide market opportunities for businesses - and they've clearly benefited customers. I can use my EUR bank account in one country in another.

I'm sure you're familiar with licensing and auctioning of the wireless frequency bands that are used by the very handheld computers (smartphones) we're talking about.

Payment processing is also arguably done by computing these days - and the EU has also mandated very clear technical protocols/standards for that.

If you've been around since the 1980s, you should have the explosion of the internet - that was (for the most part) NOT based on proprietary standards. Clearly illustrates the benefits of interoperable standards.

Tell that that to all the mobile app developers that are not able to freely work out how to charge their customers - due to being bound by Apple's terms. Such as the Dutch dating apps ;)

Exactly.

Only when there is a very clear lack of competition in the market should legislators and regulators intervene.
And that's exactly what we're now seeing with mobile phone operating systems and app distribution.

It is. Having obstacles to customers switching platforms is part of Apple's business model.

We basically have a duopoly of (relevant) mobile operating systems (iOS, Android) and app distribution stores (Apple App Store, Google Play). And a lack of competition in those important "gatekeeping" platforms. That is why legislators have decided it's beneficial to the overall economy and society to tackle the issue by new legislation.

It's only fair and appropriate to call that "directly attacking" such anticompetitive business models.
Food, air, water, money should be subject to protections. The transfer of money has been around since the Romans. Checks, letters of credit, etc. modern times have seen improvements with checks.

That analogy has nothing to do with methods introduced by consumer oriented mass produced electronic devices, who throughout the last many decades have differentiated themselves via proprietary innovation while still supporting protocols not regulated by the government.

Having many methods to transfer and control money, sure, can even use a non-tech method like a check. Force apple to open its hardware, nah.

The eu might squeeze big tech only so far before they find American big tech absent.
 
The transfer of money has been around since the Romans. Checks, letters of credit, etc. modern times have seen improvements with checks.
(...)
Having many methods to transfer and control money, sure, can even use a non-tech method like a check.
EU regulation has been instrumental in creating a cheap, fast and secure pan-European international payment systems for the benefits of consumers and businesses (arguably not so much the banks).

That's why I never in my life had to use such antiquated payment methods as checks (like they do in the U.S.).

This thread isn’t really about payments - but payment markets are a good example of - forceful but successful - EU regulation that has benefitted both small businesses and consumers.

We‘ll see how that‘ll play out with regulating the tech companies - and particularly the big smartphone software ones. One may disagree that such regulation is „justified“ or necessary and be of the opinion that it‘s an overreach. But EU regulation has certainly been beneficial to consumers and businesses and created more competitive markets in some areas.

It has proven wrong the narrative that only unfettered free-market competition free of government intervention and regulation will always be best in promoting technological progress and innovation.
 
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Herein lies the problem....the proposed RCS isn't a standard and is far from being supported by networks worldwide. SMS is a standard, exactly what a number of people in here are calling for, yet conveniently don't want to acknowledge that elephant in the room.

Who said it had to be RCS?
SMS is a carrier standard built for small cost effective messaging. That is so yesterday.
 
LOL, What? Of course they claim iOS to be a general purpose operating system. They may not use those words exactly, but they constantly boast about all the apps available on the app store, their support for developers and business through application support, and their ability to interoperate in various systems. They absolutely market iOS as a general purpose operating system and it is incredibly silly to say that they don't.

The ability to use a smartphone as a general purpose computer is literally the only reason people buy smartphones over regular cell phones.


No, it is simply forcing Apple to make already existing APIs available to everyone, not just themselves. There is nothing new that Apple has to create, here. Apple may need to untangle the artificial interlocks that they, themselves, created intentionally, but that is hardly an expense that Apple shouldn't be expected to bear on their own, since it is a situation that they created on their own.
No. A general purpose OS would allow you to do many things that Apple, at their discretion, does not allow in IOS. You can wave your hands all you want, but IOS is not and has never been a general purpose operating system.
 
Arpanet and TCP/IP as foundations of the internet were mostly ordered by, for and according to orders from the (bureaucrats of the) US Department of Defense.
Yes, Arpanet, and the beginnings of TCP/IP were written by engineers/companies working on DOD contracts to build a communications system capable of surviving a nuclear war (literally, routing around nodes in the network that might no longer exist). The bureaucrats weren't designing it, they asked for a system to be built meeting specific requirements. The design work was done by engineers and academics. And once it emerged from military use out to "civilian" use, basically every standard that controls how the internet works, since then, has been done by RFC - a process where someone (person or company) proposes a protocol or a change, and it is debated and tested thoroughly before being possibly approved.

The point being, it gets designed by engineers, not by politicians, it gets implemented by consensus, not by mandate, and it gets replaced as technological improvements merit, not when someone passes a new law.

No government (thus far) says, for instance, "we've decided that POP is the proper way to handle client-to-server email transfer, so we're legally mandating that to the exclusion of all other protocols" (which is a good thing, because IMAP presented a superior protocol for that task and largely replaced POP).
 
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