EU Probes Apple's Decision to Shut Down Epic's Developer Account

[diamond.g]

Because free is never free.

If it's Google you sign away data & privacy, if it's Apple you pay a commission.

Back OT, Epic basically injected malware into their App remotely and therefore should be classed as a bad actor and good riddance.

Let them host their games on someone else's third party App Store and pay commission to someone else if they wish.

It is curious that Apple isn't terminating the Unreal Engine developer account. You'd think if they didn't trust Epic they would cut all ties.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Because free is never free.

If it's Google you sign away data & privacy, if it's Apple you pay a commission.

Back OT, Epic basically injected malware into their App remotely and therefore should be classed as a bad actor and good riddance.

Let them host their games on someone else's third party App Store and pay commission to someone else if they wish.

Apple is the one who aare the bad actors in the Eyes of EU.

Apple is in breach of the Digital service act. Epic and apples legal squandering in the U.S. is 100% irrelevant to the EU.

You can’t arbitrarily terminate a contract within the EU legal jurisdiction.

 

[Xiao_Xi]

Thierry Breton is the current Internal Market Commissioner of the European Union.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765793776692326891

By the way, for those who think that those who made the DMA are clueless, I hope they are not referring to Thierry Breton.

 

[Beautyspin]

Yep, epics ban is justifiable.

Not according to Thierry Breton.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765793776692326891

 

[I7guy]

Not according to Thierry Breton.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765793776692326891

we’ll see who prevails right? Right now epic is banned. Go #dma.

 

[Abazigal]

Thierry Breton is the current Internal Market Commissioner of the European Union.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765793776692326891

By the way, for those who think that those who made the DMA are clueless, I hope they are not referring to Thierry Breton.

I don't think it's useless (in that I get what the EU is trying to accomplish here), but I still feel it is not a good piece of legislation, not least people they can't even be honest about just what it is they are trying to do here.

It seems to me like Apple is trying to shine the spotlight on the DMA and the EU commission's absurdity in attacking Apple. If Apple can show that the EU is willing to go so far as to break Apple's existing contractual agreements with developers, then Apple will have demonstrated just what it is that the EU is really after.

This is why I disagree with many people here who feel that Apple should simply capitulate, open up the App Store and save themselves a lot of potential legal trouble and bad PR. That Apple should just bend over backwards to regulators and do whatever it is that a third-party wants them to do to make this mess “go away.”

There is one fundamental problem with this line of thinking: There won’t be an end to the madness. It is not going away. Since the EU is going after Apple’s power, they will not stop, ever, until all power is lost at which point both Apple and its customers lose.

I am personally behind Apple fighting that outcome at every turn possible. Maybe I am the only here who thinks that way, and I am perfectly fine with it. Maybe Apple does wind up losing, and losing terribly at the end of it all, but in the very least, if the folks at the EU commission want their victory, they are going to have to fight tooth and nail for it.

I do believe there is a method to Apple's apparent madness here. We shall see soon enough.

 

[wyrdness]

Apple should leave EU market, too many lawsuits, regulations and fines. Germany, Italy and France should use their own phone or export from Spain or Greece.

There are will be much more demand on other markets to resell iPhones in EU.
Apple should be strong hear or they pay, pay and pay

The population of the EU is around 450 million. The population of the USA is around 335 million. Do you really think that leaving the EU market makes sense?

 

[wyrdness]

Why. The court stated they were allowed to. If the EU wants to go against court rulings with their own BS rules. Businesses will pull out. Epic have breach TOS which is effectively a contract.

You sound as if you don't actually know what the EU is.

 

[Beautyspin]

I don't think it's useless (in that I get what the EU is trying to accomplish here), but I still feel it is not a good piece of legislation, not least people they can't even be honest about just what it is they are trying to do here.

It seems to me like Apple is trying to shine the spotlight on the DMA and the EU commission's absurdity in attacking Apple. If Apple can show that the EU is willing to go so far as to break Apple's existing contractual agreements with developers, then Apple will have demonstrated just what it is that the EU is really after.

This is why I disagree with many people here who feel that Apple should simply capitulate, open up the App Store and save themselves a lot of potential legal trouble and bad PR. That Apple should just bend over backwards to regulators and do whatever it is that a third-party wants them to do to make this mess “go away.”

There is one fundamental problem with this line of thinking: There won’t be an end to the madness. It is not going away. Since the EU is going after Apple’s power, they will not stop, ever, until all power is lost at which point both Apple and its customers lose.

I am personally behind Apple fighting that outcome at every turn possible. Maybe I am the only here who thinks that way, and I am perfectly fine with it. Maybe Apple does wind up losing, and losing terribly at the end of it all, but in the very least, if the folks at the EU commission want their victory, they are going to have to fight tooth and nail for it.

I do believe there is a method to Apple's apparent madness here. We shall see soon enough.

A company that is tight-fisted enough that it would not leave a single opportunity to earn money from its developers, partners, suppliers, and above all its customers, will buckle at some point. Even I would like to know at which will it buckle. I do not think it is too far as we already have instances of it buckling to Chinese government for just staying in the market.

 

[wyrdness]

Please state your sources for those claims

No, I don't want to see a picture of his backside.

 

[gnipgnop]

Not according to Thierry Breton.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765793776692326891

Apple isn't just making a "threat to silence a developer". The U.S. court system ruled that Apple could terminate Epic's developer account due to Epic intentionally violating the developer contract. That happened long before the EU ever put the DMA into effect. Epic's "hot garbage" comments per Apple's compliance with the DMA is not the only thing that has happened between Epic/Apple from a business perspective.

 

[Beautyspin]

Apple isn't just making a "threat to silence a developer". The U.S. court system ruled that Apple could terminate Epic's developer account due to Epic intentionally violating the developer contract. That happened long before the EU ever put the DMA into effect. Epic's "hot garbage" comments per Apple's compliance with the DMA is not the only thing that has happened between Epic/Apple from a business perspective.

Well, I am not saying that Apple is threatening Epic. Thiery Breton is. The investigation will surface whether that is true or not.

 

[gnipgnop]

Thierry Breton is the current Internal Market Commissioner of the European Union.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765793776692326891

By the way, for those who think that those who made the DMA are clueless, I hope they are not referring to Thierry Breton.

His comment about "silencing developers" certainly seems clueless in the context of Epic/Apple. Epic's lawsuit and subsequent loss in court was widely publicized.

 

[gnipgnop]

I do believe there is a method to Apple's apparent madness here. We shall see soon enough.

They're putting the EU in the position of vouching for Epic. I actually think that's kind of funny considering it's a near certainty that Epic will violate the EU contract as well.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

we’ll see who prevails right? Right now epic is banned. Go #dma.

Banned with no apparent legal justification. The current contract Apple terminated wasn’t breached by Epic. Apple asked for a written guarantee they wouldn’t break their current agreement and got one, but chose to terminate it on gut feelings unrelated to their current contract.

Talking **** about apples stance on the DMA or other isn’t grounds for termination.

I don't think it's useless (in that I get what the EU is trying to accomplish here), but I still feel it is not a good piece of legislation, not least people they can't even be honest about just what it is they are trying to do here.

It seems to me like Apple is trying to shine the spotlight on the DMA and the EU commission's absurdity in attacking Apple. If Apple can show that the EU is willing to go so far as to break Apple's existing contractual agreements with developers, then Apple will have demonstrated just what it is that the EU is really after.

This is why I disagree with many people here who feel that Apple should simply capitulate, open up the App Store and save themselves a lot of potential legal trouble and bad PR. That Apple should just bend over backwards to regulators and do whatever it is that a third-party wants them to do to make this mess “go away.”

There is one fundamental problem with this line of thinking: There won’t be an end to the madness. It is not going away. Since the EU is going after Apple’s power, they will not stop, ever, until all power is lost at which point both Apple and its customers lose.

I am personally behind Apple fighting that outcome at every turn possible. Maybe I am the only here who thinks that way, and I am perfectly fine with it. Maybe Apple does wind up losing, and losing terribly at the end of it all, but in the very least, if the folks at the EU commission want their victory, they are going to have to fight tooth and nail for it.

I do believe there is a method to Apple's apparent madness here. We shall see soon enough.

Kind of ironic of you two. The issue is the DSA (Digital service act), secondary issue apple might be violating is the DMA.

You should read the DSA in regards to service agreements and rules regarding how the termination of a contract must occur.

U.S. legal ruling doesn’t exist from the perspective of EU.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

His comment about "silencing developers" certainly seems clueless in the context of Epic/Apple. Epic's lawsuit and subsequent loss in court was widely publicized.

They're putting the EU in the position of vouching for Epic. I actually think that's kind of funny considering it's a near certainty that Epic will violate the EU contract as well.

You are demonstrating your ignorance. Epic/Apple legal battle in the U.S. is non existent and are from the legislative branch and judiciary completely non existent.

EU isn’t going to vouch for Epic, Apple will be forced to show they have the legal right to terminate a legal contract in EU for violating it. And that the termination was concluded through the legal procedure stipulated in the DSA and B2B contracts law.

If the contract isn’t legally binding then it’s apple is in deep trouble, if they violated the protocol then they are in extremely serious trouble

 

[I7guy]

Banned with no apparent legal justification.

They broke their contract. That is legal justification enough for apple.

The current contract Apple terminated wasn’t breached by Epic. Apple asked for a written guarantee they wouldn’t break their current agreement and got one, but chose to terminate it on gut feelings unrelated to their current contract.

Talking **** about apples stance on the DMA or other isn’t grounds for termination. [….]

They got banned for breach of contract in the US. Whether or not this is challenged and ultimately reversed, grab your popcorn to find out.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

They broke their contract. That is legal justification enough for apple.

They got banned for breach of contract in the US. Whether or not this is challenged and ultimately reversed, grab your popcorn to find out.

What part of the current development contract did they violate? As provided in the email exchange I posted above? Apple didn’t refer to any violating of their contract.


And EU won’t challenge it because it’s irrelevant to EU. You getting a speeding ticket 10 years ago in New York is more relevant to a judge in EU than this.

US contract dispute isn’t relevant so it’s pointless to bring it up here.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

They broke their contract. That is legal justification enough for apple.

They got banned for breach of contract in the US. Whether or not this is challenged and ultimately reversed, grab your popcorn to find out.

Just how the death penalty isn’t a recognized or respected in EU, nether is random irrelevant laws from a foreign market in a foreign jurisdiction.

only if the U.S. invades EU and enforced their legal jurisdiction would this change….

 

[bsolar]

They broke their contract. That is legal justification enough for apple.

Apple doesn't even need any legal justification to terminate a developer account as the agreement states that both parties can terminate it "for any reason or no reason".

The issue is whether Apple can use this to ban third-parties completely and prevent them from providing competing services like third-party application stores or applications sold through those stores.

 

[I7guy]

Just how the death penalty isn’t a recognized or respected in EU, nether is random irrelevant laws from a foreign market in a foreign jurisdiction.

only if the U.S. invades EU and enforced their legal jurisdiction would this change….

Apple doesn't even need any legal justification to terminate a developer account as the agreement states that both parties can terminate it "for any reason or no reason".

The issue is whether Apple can use this to ban third-parties completely and prevent them from providing competing services like third-party application stores or applications sold through those stores.

I’m assuming a valid Apple ID is needed and epic may not have a valid Apple ID in any location. At any rate, we will see what will happens. It will be bad business if bad actors are allowed to do business within the App Store. That will lead to a downhill spiral.

 

[vakarpochui]

It is curious that Apple isn't terminating the Unreal Engine developer account. You'd think if they didn't trust Epic they would cut all ties.

That is interesting.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Your assuming "hate", but that's nothing but loaded language and cynicism. There is a clear, rational business reason for Apple to not trust Epic. Epic was given clear, unambiguous instructions on how to reestablish their account, and they basically blew Apple off.

Yes, I suppose you could call it "colorful criticism." Tell me Schiller didn't write that over a glass of Scotch with a scowl on his face.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I don’t

I’m assuming a valid Apple ID is needed and epic may not have a valid Apple ID in any location. At any rate, we will see what will happens. It will be bad business if bad actors are allowed to do business within the App Store. That will lead to a downhill spiral.

Epic did have a valid Apple ID for months. Epic may not have a valid Apple ID only within US jurisdiction. Apple vs Epic legal case is only within US jurisdiction, the second its in a different jurisdiction it’s not a legally binding legal case and can be dismissed as such.

If epic is a bad actor is completely irrelevant to the legality of the contract allowing Epic to launch an alternative AppStore service using an alternative developer account.
every contract is a separate entity that is needed to be legally scrutinized.

Apple today reversed a decision to shut down Epic Games' developer account in the European Union, and the account has now been reinstated. In a statement to MacRumors, Apple said that Epic Games has committed to following the rules, allowing Epic Sweden to be reaccepted into the Apple Developer Program

Seems like Apple knew they screwed the pouch and did a quick backpedal considering they didn’t believe them a moment ago. Perhaps Apple have some legal counseling from European lawyers telling them some actual advice.

 

[I7guy]

I don’t

Epic did have a valid Apple ID for months. Epic may not have a valid Apple ID only within US jurisdiction. Apple vs Epic legal case is only within US jurisdiction, the second its in a different jurisdiction it’s not a legally binding legal case and can be dismissed as such.

Or it will be upheld as such.

If epic is a bad actor is completely irrelevant to the legality of the contract allowing Epic to launch an alternative AppStore service using an alternative developer account.

The point is the downhill spiral aspect of it. I sure as **** hope that the epic ban is upheld.

every contract is a separate entity that is needed to be legally scrutinized.

Or the ban can be continued.

Seems like Apple knew they screwed the pouch and did a quick backpedal considering they didn’t believe them a moment ago. Perhaps Apple have some legal counseling from European lawyers telling them some actual advice.

Seems like apple knows what it is doing while the EU dma cognoscenti may not.