EU Proposes Enforcing Data Encryption and Banning Backdoors

[ksnell]

As long as their intentions are true, this is probably the first time I have agreed with the EU.

 

[danckwerts]

So is it a political issue to allow rape and torture?

No, because those are human rights issues. Fundamental human right to not be raped, and to not be tortured. It's inexcusable. If you don't believe in basic human rights, then you shouldn't get to participate in a society of other humans. Freedom only goes so far, and that's violating fundamental human rights of another person.

That response demonstrates my point. YOU are laying down the law and deciding what constitutes human rights and, rather worryingly, deciding who should not benefit from these rights. That seems
very illiberal to me. We were not discussing protection from rape or torture. And, yes, they ARE political issues. I would certainly consider them fundamental human rights. But I wouldn't suggest that only those who agreed with my interpretation of human rights should be protected from transgressions of them.

 

[meaning-matters]

Yeah, that is the proper reaction to a proposal by the European Parliament.
[doublepost=1497874762][/doublepost]
Sure, true populists have no need for parliaments, they need one strongman (or woman) they can make responsible for everything. Everything else is just too complicated for their gut thinking.

Not what I meant. That parliament is NOT chosen by me, nor is the bloody EU president, nor any other person that decides, nor did I have any say in all these laws, billions of wasting, ...
I believe in direct democracy, not one strongman (or woman) and in leaders that can be voted in or out by me. I hate the circus in and between Brussels and Strasbourg with an alcoholic 'leader'.

 

[MLVC]

Not what I meant. That parliament is NOT chosen by me, nor is the bloody president, nor did I have any say in all these laws, billions of wasting, ... I pay these people, so I want to have a say, I believe in direct democracy and in leaders that can be voted in or out by me. I hate the circus in and between Brussels and Strasbourg with an alcoholic 'leader'.

You should have gone out to vote at the last European elections. Then it would have been chosen by you as well

 

[nt5672]

I think terrorist is smart enough to create thier own encryption.

Creating a new encryption algorithm is terribly difficult to do (excluding one time pads). The best thing that could happen from an NSA standpoint is for terrorists to create their own. The NSA would own it in very short time.

 

[Rigby]

Not what I meant. That parliament is NOT chosen by me

If you choose not to participate in the European election, that's nobody's fault but yours.

nor is the bloody EU president

There is no "EU president".

nor any other person that decides, nor did I have any say in all these laws, billions of wasting, ...

All EU bodies that can make decisions or pass legislation are democratically elected, either directly (EU Parliament) or on the national level (members of the EU Council). And you are not subject to a single law that hasn't been passed or approved by your national government.

 

[Gaspode67]

OK as much as I like the sentiment it's all fairy dust until there's a realistic chance of passage and the article already says it's been tabled.

In the majority of the English speaking world, tabling a motion means presenting it for consideration. It's only really in the US that tabling something means postponing it. If you read news articles regarding the proposal, you'll see that it's the former that applies in this case. This is a measure that is under active consideration.

 

[VulchR]

Excellent move EU! Oh wait – Brexit – it won't apply to the UK.

 

[manu chao]

Not what I meant. That parliament is NOT chosen by me, nor is the bloody EU president, nor any other person that decides, nor did I have any say in all these laws, billions of wasting, ...
I believe in direct democracy, not one strongman (or woman) and in leaders that can be voted in or out by me. I hate the circus in and between Brussels and Strasbourg with an alcoholic 'leader'.

If the parliament was not chosen by you, who elected it then?

 

[Tinmania]

What will happen when Quantum computing comes to the fore?

This because the fundamental mathematics behind all encryption makes all NP algorithms breakable in polynomial time.

And, Quantum computing will be available to the few.

The equivalent of a modern-day Enigma Machine of the past century.

And Quantum cryptography makes your point, pointless.



Mike

 

[Rigby]

Research on cryptography in a post-quantum world has been ongoing for a while (see e.g. here for an overview). Note that this primarily affects public-key cryptography. Symmetric-key algorithms such as AES are mostly quantum-resistant.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

And Quantum cryptography makes your point, pointless.



Mike

What part, Mike, to the few you do not understand?

 

[macduke]

That response demonstrates my point. YOU are laying down the law and deciding what constitutes human rights and, rather worryingly, deciding who should not benefit from these rights. That seems
very illiberal to me. We were not discussing protection from rape or torture. And, yes, they ARE political issues. I would certainly consider them fundamental human rights. But I wouldn't suggest that only those who agreed with my interpretation of human rights should be protected from transgressions of them.

There's nothing to agree about! They're human rights. Don't violate them, including privacy. As it pertains to the U.S., the constitution protects these rights. It's not a political thing. The constitution is not political. It guarantees certain rights, including unreasonable search and seizure and people to be secure in their persons. They want to be able to monitor everything everywhere at all times. This is B.S.

 

[Rigby]

That response demonstrates my point. YOU are laying down the law and deciding what constitutes human rights

Actually privacy is protected according to Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."

 

[0098386]

Who cares if People voted for Brexit believing it would be to their benefit. it was not and a lot of things were said to people that will never be delivered, as they are not deliverable. But they believed it and so they are the fools.

Now that we are leaving the EU we can strip away regulations, remove workplace protections and lower taxes. This will include stripping away privacy for the U.K. Citizens by banning encryption and monitoring all internet access so that we may restrict what can be accessed and punish those that view unsuitable or otherwise innapripritate materials

Well said. I hate how lies and misinformation spread so well among certain groups. It impacts all of us.
[doublepost=1497898469][/doublepost]

Really, you can't see how elitist that sounds? perhaps some "educated folks" want nothing to do with the EU. For better or worse, the majority voted to leave. Are you saying the voices of the majority shouldn't be heard?

Hello, I really don't like to engage with people who seek to sensationalise like that. Where did I say they shouldn't be heard? I'd love to discuss this more but only if it's a genuine discussion and not some weird game where you put words in my mouth. Cheers.
[doublepost=1497898635][/doublepost]

While people may be manipulated by "friends/press/propaganda" (which presumably includes yourself), many think for themselves and realise that they don't want people who they can't remove by any democratic mechanism having executive power over them.

It is annoying when people opine that those who voted for Brexit somehow "didn't understand" the issues. Maybe they understood them all too well. Oh but isn't democracy annoying, too, when it doesn't do what you want it to? But that's the point. Let the people decide, and don't patronise them when they vote against your ideas. As the old adage runs: democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others.

Again, I notice fervent Leave types bring that attitude with them, where you'd like to put words in others mouths. Please don't do that. We could have a normal talk where we talk about manipulation, about the role of the press in all of this. It could be fun!

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Hello, I really don't like to engage with people who seek to sensationalise like that. Where did I say they shouldn't be heard? I'd love to discuss this more but only if it's a genuine discussion and not some weird game where you put words in my mouth. Cheers.

There's nothing to discuss; people were given the choice, they voted to leave, job done. Now I'm not going to put words in your mouth but I have a feeling you think something went wrong.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I don't trust the EU with its unelected elites deciding on our lives.
It's the same EU that wastes billions, lets in (or even (let) picks up at the other side of the Mediterranean Sea) illegal immigrants by the thousands, ...

Some lies never dies.

"unelected [EU] elites" is part of the bs propaganda that made UK to vote for Brexit.

European Parlament = directly elected. One of its tasks is to set European Commission.
European Commission = each member State has one "commissioner", chosen by European Parlament after every election.
Council of the European Union = ministers of the member states = local governments (directly elected) send one minister per State

Sounds pretty democratic to me. How about some queens, and lords and sirs... that is not an elite, right?

 

[0098386]

There's nothing to discuss; people were given the choice, they voted to leave, job done. Now I'm not going to put words in your mouth but I have a feeling you think something went wrong.

I have a feeling you won't apologise for putting words in my mouth. But moving on;
People were lied to, on both sides sure but the scale and severity from Leave was bewildering. Nigel Farage releasing an identical poster to some old Nazi propaganda, playing on people's fears of immigrants, well that's wrong isn't it? Wouldn't you say so?

From discussions I've had with local Leave supporters their arguments always boiled down to race and didn't understand what the EU brought to us. When I told them about May (at the time) talking about eroding Human Rights, well they were shocked. As one would be. The EU guarantees human rights, and with May now as PM well it's a recipe for disaster. What do you think about that?

I found that literally all Leave people I spoke to were manipulated. Obviously I know not all are, I know there are smart folk that have well researched reasons for wanting to Leave too. (Just to prevent any manipulating of my words )

And it's a powerful and simple situation. 1) people didn't know how beneficial the EU is in terms of human rights, consumer law, travel freedoms, and of course economic benefits. 2) powerful vile people like Murdock have the ability to sway people's opinions. They don't like people to research and know, they like people malleable.

Personally I think it's sad but it's a global phenomena. It's just really sad in the UK as it was the young that voted to remain, and it's them that will have to live with this longer. Critical thinking skills are being eroded and expert manipulators are at the helm.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Some lies never dies.

"unelected [EU] elites" is part of the bs propaganda that made UK to vote for Brexit.

European Parlament = directly elected. One of its tasks is to set European Commission.
European Commission = each state has one "commissioner", chosen by European Parlament after every election.
Council of the European Union = ministers of the member states = local governments (directly elected) send one minister per State

Sounds pretty democratic to me. How about some queens, and lords and sirs... that is not an elite, right?

No, the problem is you could, in the UK, elect a democratic leader who makes all these election promises, and then gets into power. Then goes to the EU and finds out that the other 27 member states don't share that opinion. Well then you've just elected a ruler with no real power.Of course brexit happened.

 

[MLVC]

No, the problem is you could, in the UK, elect a democratic leader who makes all these election promises, and then gets into power. Then goes to the EU and finds out that the other 27 member states don't share that opinion. Well then you've just elected a ruler with no real power.Of course brexit happened.

I know a lot of Italians who were very happy about that during the Berlusconi years.... just saying.

 

[Rigby]

No, the problem is you could, in the UK, elect a democratic leader who makes all these election promises, and then gets into power. Then goes to the EU and finds out that the other 27 member states don't share that opinion. Well then you've just elected a ruler with no real power.

By that definition any "ruler" (I hope you mean democratic leader by that) in a democracy with separation of powers has "no real power", since it can always happen they they don't find a majority for their election promises in the national legislative body. That's by design, of course.

 

[Zarniwoop]

No, the problem is you could, in the UK, elect a democratic leader who makes all these election promises, and then gets into power. Then goes to the EU and finds out that the other 27 member states don't share that opinion. Well then you've just elected a ruler with no real power.Of course brexit happened.

Would it be a democracy if a 64 million people state could dictate 500 million people trade union? I know they do that in USA, but EU doesn't have the almighty president.

And what comes to the illegal immigrants, UK is not even part of the Schengen, so the past events with refugees coming to Europe haven't hit UK (mostly) in any way. UK borders were already closed, and the passport control for ferries and train is in mainland (France). Having 3.000.000 legal immigrants working as painters, plumbers etc is another thing, but those are not illegal.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

By that definition any "ruler" (I hope you mean democratic leader by that) in a democracy with separation of powers has "no real power", since it can always happen they they don't find a majority for their election promises in the national legislative body. That's by design, of course.

Those exact words are in my post.

 

[Gudi]

LOL, dissing Brits on Brexit while Nationalism flourishes in "Mein Land". Don't get too comfy.

How's the weather in Trumpland? Do you need help to build that wall.

Snowden and Durov argue over security of WhatsApp & Telegram

Basically what the EU is saying, everybody switch to Telegram!

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Enough arguing, brexit happened, the UK is out of the EU and we are never going back. Deal with it.