EU Proposes to Force Apple to Switch iPhone, iPad, and AirPods From Lightning to USB-C

[AndiG]

Having hundreds of millions of cables hit the garbage dump Is not shortsighted thinking, it seems like a legitimate issue. You can rehash or not; makes no difference.

Don't understand. As long as there are devices that rely on Lightning, those cables won't get scrapped. Lightning cables normally fail during the lifecycle of an iPad or iPhone.

So what exactly should cause a Problem? If I would buy a new iPhone with USB-C I wouldn't buy another USB-C cable since moste devices already use USB-C (starting with the Macbook, iPad Pro, GoPro, Wahoo Elemnt - to name only a few).
If the old Lightning cable ist still alive and kicking, it will be sold together with the phone.

So where exactly do you see "hundreds of millions of cables hit the garbage"?

 

[vipergts2207]

As the EU sinks into a 2nd class technological tier, absent of meaningful innovation with regulation that hampers, not supports innovation, sure. That will be an intended consequence of over-draconian regulation. In addition, this will cost consumers more as consumers now have to replace the cables they have lying around their houses and cars. Sounds like a win-win-win /s

My guess is Apple has another plan. But yeah, as iphones die out cables go into e-waste as new cables are purchased, this will cost consumers more.

Not lost any lightning cables to planned obsolescence or breaking or corrosion. One anecdotal story against another anecdotal story.

Yes, I’m sure the EU is worried about missing out on all of the innovation that’s surely going to happen with wired connectors in 2021 and beyond. They’re also probably worried about all that dial-up modem innovation they’re going to miss out on as well. 😂

Those are some seriously impressive blinders you have on to gloss over the plethora of sources and photos relating to the lighting cable durability issues. I suppose when you don’t have an actual argument to make about why such a defect is acceptable, all you’re left to respond with is “fake news”.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, I’m sure the EU is worried about missing out on all of the innovation that’s surely going to happen with wired connectors in 2021 and beyond. They’re also probably worried about all that dial-up modem innovation they’re going to miss out on as well. 😂

Those are some seriously impressive blinders you have on to gloss over the plethora of sources and photos relating to the lighting cable durability issues. I suppose when you don’t have an actual argument to make about why such a defect is acceptable, all you’re left to respond with is “fake news”.

Really am surprised about your lack of understanding about how governmental micro-regulation in this case will keep everyone at the lowest common denominator. I suppose when you don't have a real argument it's easier to try and cast shade then respond to the points. Carry on!

 

[jlc1978]

So what exactly should cause a Problem? If I would buy a new iPhone with USB-C I wouldn't buy another USB-C cable since moste devices already use USB-C (starting with the Macbook, iPad Pro, GoPro, Wahoo Elemnt - to name only a few).
If the old Lightning cable ist still alive and kicking, it will be sold together with the phone.

That's assuming all cables follow the same standard pinout, which isn't true. You ould have one that is for USB-2 and thus not work with PD. If a company includes Thunderbolt for data a long USB-C cable may not work properly. There is also on assurance that companies will devise their own USB pinout configurations or at some point or add new ones to the spec obsoleting old cables.

All this does is mandate a port, which does not have the same pinouts in all cases, and is even used in other applications beyond phones and computers.

Of course, wireless will change the entire discussion.

 

[I7guy]

Don't understand. As long as there are devices that rely on Lightning, those cables won't get scrapped. Lightning cables normally fail during the lifecycle of an iPad or iPhone.

So what exactly should cause a Problem? If I would buy a new iPhone with USB-C I wouldn't buy another USB-C cable since moste devices already use USB-C (starting with the Macbook, iPad Pro, GoPro, Wahoo Elemnt - to name only a few).
If the old Lightning cable ist still alive and kicking, it will be sold together with the phone.

So where exactly do you see "hundreds of millions of cables hit the garbage"?

I don't know. I have two lightning cable in every room plus two in my car. Assuming I had usb-c, I would need two in every room plus two in my car. But I'm assuming as the need for lightning dies, they end up as e-waste and replaced with other cables...and those who are now buying devices with usb-c would have the same amount of cables as I would. How else could I charge an ipad and iphone simultaneously for example.

 

[vipergts2207]

Really am surprised about your lack of understanding about how governmental micro-regulation in this case will keep everyone at the lowest common denominator. I suppose when you don't have a real argument it's easier to try and cast shade then respond to the points. Carry on!

I see we’re back here again. The problem isn’t that I didn’t respond to the point that you made. It’s that I’ve already addressed it. I can’t help it if you can’t follow along with the thread. See two different posts below.

EU Proposes to Force Apple to Switch iPhone, iPad, and AirPods From Lightning to USB-C

The first half of your post completely misses the fact that USB-C was designed to allow for future upgrades. Hence why it now supports 40 Gb/s. If you're worried about being stuck with an aging connector on your iPhone, clearly Apple is not. The proprietary lightning connector they're shipping...

forums.macrumors.com

EU Proposes to Force Apple to Switch iPhone, iPad, and AirPods From Lightning to USB-C

Every other USB port had significant drawbacks wouldn't you say? Your comparison to the other flavors of USB is incomplete at best and highly flawed at worst. USB-C is the only USB plug that's reversible, which let's face it, is the biggest plus of lightning. USB-C has also been designed to be...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[I7guy]

I see we’re back here again. The problem isn’t that I didn’t respond to the point that you made. It’s that I’ve already addressed it. I can’t help it if you can’t follow along with the thread. See two different posts below.

EU Proposes to Force Apple to Switch iPhone, iPad, and AirPods From Lightning to USB-C

The first half of your post completely misses the fact that USB-C was designed to allow for future upgrades. Hence why it now supports 40 Gb/s. If you're worried about being stuck with an aging connector on your iPhone, clearly Apple is not. The proprietary lightning connector they're shipping...

forums.macrumors.com

EU Proposes to Force Apple to Switch iPhone, iPad, and AirPods From Lightning to USB-C

Every other USB port had significant drawbacks wouldn't you say? Your comparison to the other flavors of USB is incomplete at best and highly flawed at worst. USB-C is the only USB plug that's reversible, which let's face it, is the biggest plus of lightning. USB-C has also been designed to be...

forums.macrumors.com

Where we are is imo, governmental micro-regulation is bad for all involved. As it relates to product design it will leave the EU with the lowest common denominator of some tech. Which is their prerogative of course.

Until it happens, and Apple releases new phones that conform with the regulation we will not know how this turns out. It may be that Apple goes portless or smart connector. Maybe they will have a usb-c for charging, but include a magsafe charging and data connection. Who knows what Apples response will be? We will see what happens.

 

[vipergts2207]

Where we are is imo, governmental micro-regulation is bad for all involved. As it relates to product design it will leave the EU with the lowest common denominator of some tech. Which is their prerogative of course.

Until it happens, and Apple releases new phones that conform with the regulation we will not know how this turns out. It may be that Apple goes portless or smart connector. Maybe they will have a usb-c for charging, but include a magsafe charging and data connection. Who knows what Apples response will be? We will see what happens.

What’s funny about the crowing about the EU getting left behind in port technology is that Apple hasn’t even seen fit to bring over the USB 3.0 speeds for lightning in the iPhone that they had in the iPad several years ago. If you want to look at who’s holding back port progress, look directly at Apple.

 

[mrex]

Where we are is imo, governmental micro-regulation is bad for all involved. As it relates to product design it will leave the EU with the lowest common denominator of some tech. Which is their prerogative of course.

Until it happens, and Apple releases new phones that conform with the regulation we will not know how this turns out. It may be that Apple goes portless or smart connector. Maybe they will have a usb-c for charging, but include a magsafe charging and data connection. Who knows what Apples response will be? We will see what happens.

if we trust apple to innovate something rather than copy from others, apple would still live in a stone age.

Also cables etc have huge environmental effect.. loghtning isnt any better than usbc and apple can choose which usbc they will apply (probably the cheapest one).

 

[polyphenol]

Let's put the EU proposal to one side. Imagine the thoughts behind it have never been thought.

An even bigger leap of imagination, and even less likely, Apple has never made a phone but has now decided to launch one.

They have a choice of using USB-C or something else. Does anyone think that Apple would a) choose a proprietary connector, however well-featured and wonderful in its own ways, or b) join with everyone else in using USB-C?

I really doubt they would jump to a proprietary connector - we, the consumers, would not be impressed. Even if it could charge at a kilowatt, carry data at muti-terabytes a second, be utterly unbreakable and be very cheap.

Just don't need the first two for phones. And the last two are desirable whatever the technology but unlikely ever to be available.

 

[I7guy]

What’s funny about the crowing about the EU getting left behind in port technology is that Apple hasn’t even seen fit to bring over the USB 3.0 speeds for lightning in the iPhone that they had in the iPad several years ago. If you want to look at who’s holding back port progress, look directly at Apple.

Yeah, it's pretty funny about the ignorance that's displayed when people clamour for more governmental involvement and not less.

 

[vipergts2207]

Yeah, it's pretty funny about the ignorance that's displayed when people clamour for more governmental involvement and not less.

This may be news to you, but not everybody is a Libertarian lol. Of course, you ignored the fact that Apple’s clearly lagging behind in port technology. USB 2.0 lightning is a sad state of affairs for phones launched in 2021. In fact I’d say it’s sad for phones launched over the last few years. As Apple’s demonstrated, the technology is clearly there for improved lightning speeds. Guess they either don’t care about the innovation there or don’t care about the worse user experience.

 

[I7guy]

This may be news to you, but not everybody is a Libertarian lol. Of course, you ignored the fact that Apple’s clearly lagging behind in port technology. USB 2.0 lightning is a sad state of affairs for phones launched in 2021. In fact I’d say it’s sad for phones launched over the last few years. As Apple’s demonstrated, the technology is clearly there for improved lightning speeds. Guess they either don’t care about the innovation there or don’t care about the worse user experience.

Well it may news to you that not everybody wants government to regulate every aspect of our existence and let the market choose whether it believe Apple lags or not. And of course please feel free to prove that an iphone with usb-c will have a better user experience than one with lightning. Faster and more breakable port doesn't mean better user experience.

 

[vipergts2207]

Well it may news to you that not everybody wants government to regulate every aspect of our existence and let the market choose whether it believe Apple lags or not. And of course please feel free to prove that an iphone with usb-c will have a better user experience than one with lightning. Faster and more breakable port doesn't mean better user experience.

Unfortunately for you, citizens living in the EU have decided to empower legislators to regulate Apple and other tech companies. You don’t have to like it, but that’s reality.

As for a better user experience, for starters hopefully Apple, who is supposed to be the premier tech company in the world, would see fit to implement a port with faster transfer speeds than what was impressive in *checks notes…* the year 2000. You know, back when a typical HDD would’ve been 10 GB. Meanwhile we’ve got phones with 100 times that storage, while Apple still replies on transfer speeds that are essentially an antique at this point.

Wow Apple. Much speed. So innovation.

 

[I7guy]

Unfortunately for you, citizens living in the EU have decided to empower legislators to regulate Apple and other tech companies. You don’t have to like it, but that’s reality.

Correct, but it doesn't make it best for consumers or customers is the point. And we don't know Apples' response...either here or in the EU. Additionally it seems like this might be several years in the future so there is time to see how this developers.

As for a better user experience, for starters hopefully Apple, who is supposed to be the premier tech company in the world, would see fit to implement a port with faster transfer speeds than what was impressive in *checks notes…* the year 2000. You know, back when a typical HDD would’ve been 10 GB. Meanwhile we’ve got phones with 100 times that storage, while Apple still replies on transfer speeds that are essentially an antique at this point.

And what is the point and why does an iphone need to transfer more than 480B/s? My anecdotal experience is not degraded on an iphone by use of the lightning port and USB-C hasn't, thank goodness been mandated in the US.

 

[vipergts2207]

Correct, but it doesn't make it best for consumers or customers is the point. And we don't know Apples' response...either here or in the EU. Additionally it seems like this might be several years in the future so there is time to see how this developers.

And what is the point and why does an iphone need to transfer more than 480B/s? My anecdotal experience is not degraded on an iphone by use of the lightning port and USB-C hasn't, thank goodness been mandated in the US.

So since you wouldn’t benefit from faster transfer speeds, nobody would? There are certainly people out there with rather large troves of data that would benefit. Otherwise 1 TB iPhones wouldn’t need to exist. Some folks music and movie libraries are rather large I imagine. Come on, understanding why someone might want faster transfer speeds takes no imagination.

 

[I7guy]

So since you wouldn’t benefit from faster transfer speeds, nobody would?

I don't know, would the masses? That's different than "nobody would." But faster above what? Saying faster is better is specs for specs sake.

There are certainly people out there with rather large troves of data that would benefit.

What exactly is the difference between 480B/s and usb-c speeds and where would it make a difference and for how many.

Otherwise 1 TB iPhones wouldn’t need to exist.

1 TB phones exists because Apple doesn't want to add a micro-sd slot, not because of "slow" transfer speeds.

Some folks music and movie libraries are rather large I imagine. Come on, understanding why someone might want faster transfer speeds takes no imagination.

Because there is someone who is "clamoring" for higher speeds doesn't mean the masses need it. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. How much faster would usb-c be than the 480B/s that the lightning cable offers?

 

[vipergts2207]

1 TB phones exists because Apple doesn't want to add a micro-sd slot, not because of "slow" transfer speeds.

I don’t even understand what this is supposed to mean. I never said 1 TB iPhones exist because of slow transfer speeds. That’s a nonsensical statement that you came up with all on your own. I said some people have lots of data, hence the reason 1 TB iPhones exist. People with lots of data would find faster transfer speeds useful.

I don't know, would the masses? That's different than "nobody would." But faster above what? Saying faster is better is specs for specs sake.

What exactly is the difference between 480B/s and usb-c speeds and where would it make a difference and for how
many.

Because there is someone who is "clamoring" for higher speeds doesn't mean the masses need it. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. How much faster would usb-c be than the 480B/s that the lightning cable offers?

How would I know how fast Apple would deign to make such a port? One would hope they would at least aim for the 5 Gbps of USB 3.0, but the ceiling would be as high as 40 Gbps.

To me what is notable here is that you’ve gone from, “the EU shouldn’t hamper innovation” to “well 480 Mbps should be fast enough for almost anybody.” Pick a lane.

What I think is funny is that when USB 2.0’s transfer speeds were novel at launch, here’s what else was going to in the tech world.

VHS sales we’re still dominant over DVD.

The very first iPod wouldn’t launch for another year.

The Motorola Razr wouldn’t launch for another 3 years.

Apple has undeniably stagnated in this area, yet it’s the EU you’re worried about halting innovation. 🙄

 

[I7guy]

I don’t even understand what this is supposed to mean. I never said 1 TB iPhones exist because of slow transfer speeds. That’s a nonsensical statement that you came up with all on your own. I said some people have lots of data, hence the reason 1 TB iPhones exist. People with lots of data would find faster transfer speeds useful.

Maybe go read your own post and then the reply?

How would I know how fast Apple would deign to make such a port? One would hope they would at least aim for the 5 Gbps of USB 3.0, but the ceiling would be as high as 40 Gbps.

Exactly. Apple could implement a usb - c port and provide equivalent transfer speeds to the lightning cable. Would they do that? I don't know.

To me what is notable here is that you’ve gone from, “the EU shouldn’t hamper innovation” to “well 480 Mbps should be fast enough for almost anybody.” Pick a lane.

Sure, if you stop swerving.

What I think is funny is that when USB 2.0’s transfer speeds were novel at launch, here’s what else was going to in the tech world.

VHS sales we’re still dominant over DVD.

The very first iPod wouldn’t launch for another year.

The Motorola Razr wouldn’t launch for another 3 years.

Apple has undeniably stagnated in this area, yet it’s the EU you’re worried about halting innovation. 🙄

Apple has created a ecosystem, where there are standardized ports, that are fairly rugged and serve the population (except for a select few). I'm not sure of your point that many inventions we use on the cell phone today were invented in the 60s-80s like oled?

Apple hasn't stagnated because most have proved that the use case of a typical iphone doesn't outdistances lightning.

 

[vipergts2207]

Maybe go read your own post and then the reply?

Exactly. Apple could implement a usb - c port and provide equivalent transfer speeds to the lightning cable. Would they do that? I don't know.

Sure, if you stop swerving.

Apple has created a ecosystem, where there are standardized ports, that are fairly rugged and serve the population (except for a select few). I'm not sure of your point that many inventions we use on the cell phone today were invented in the 60s-80s like oled?

Apple hasn't stagnated because no one has proved that the use case of a typical iphone outdistances lightning.

I’ve read my own post. You’re catastrophically misinterpreting something to make the statement you made.

I’m not swerving, I’ve been very consistent in stating the reasons why lightning should go. Honestly, the conversation seems to have reached a conclusion.

A summation of your points :

- Government bad
- Transfer speeds from 2 decades ago are innovative and not stagnation
- People don’t need faster than the above speeds from the VHS-era
- If forced to use USB-C the most likely scenario is that Apple will intentionally put out a slow USB 2.0 implementation
- Everyone will throw away their lightening devices and cables the very day legislation is enacted
- Documented lightning connector failures don’t exist
- Wired, not wireless is the future

Let me know if there’s anything I missed.

 

[I7guy]

I’ve read my own post. You’re catastrophically misinterpreting something to make the statement you made.

I’m not swerving, I’ve been very consistent in stating the reasons why lightning should go. Honestly, the conversation seems to have reached a conclusion.

A summation of your points :

- Government bad

True. Some types of governmental regulations that micro-manage will imo, result in unforeseen consequences.

- Transfer speeds from 2 decades ago are innovative and not stagnation

Transfer speeds are now 480. Are they innovative. No. Is a transfer speed of 1 gig innovative. Not really. Does this speed hamper usability. In general I'm positing no, although others will post their own use cases.

- People don’t need faster than the above speeds from the VHS-era

480 is from the VHS era?

- Apple will intentionally put out a slow USB 2.0 implementation if they’re forced to use USB-C

Can you tell me the protocol of a potential usb-c port on an iphone 14. Apple throttled the ipad mini, is it a stretch to believe Apple won't throttle usb-c speeds on an iphone, should these come to pass?

- Everyone will throw away their devices and cables the very day legislation is enacted

Your words. I never mentioned a timeframe.

- Documented lightning connector failures don’t exist

Documented, anecdotal failures do exist. Same as documented anecdotal, usb-c failures. It's a fallacy that anything is all or nothing.

- Wired, not wireless is the future

The way Apple is moving, it seems wireless is the future. But all we can do is read the tea leaves.

Let me know if there’s anything I missed.

 

[vipergts2207]

Transfer speeds are now 480. Are they innovative. No. Is a transfer speed of 1 gig innovative. Not really. Does this speed hamper usability. In general I'm positing no, although others will post their own use cases.

Yup, nothing like having a brand new iPhone 13 Pro Max that can do 4K ProRes video that gobbles up 6 GB per minute. Oh, but lightning will transfer that video for you at blazing fast USB 2.0 speeds..

480 is from the VHS era?

USB 2.0 was released in April 2000. VHS would continue to outsell DVDs for another 2 years after that. So yes, VHS-era.

Can you tell me the protocol of a potential usb-c port on an iphone 14. Apple throttled the ipad mini, is it a stretch to believe Apple won't throttle usb-c speeds on an iphone, should these come to pass?

The iPad mini is throttled in what sense? It can do data transfer at 5 Gbps USB 3.0 speeds which is 10x faster than USB 2.0 speeds. If that’s the kind of “throttling” Apple will offer, I’ll happily take it.

Documented, anecdotal failures do exist. Same as documented anecdotal, usb-c failures. It's a fallacy that anything is all or nothing.

You’re the only one talking all or nothing. Nobody said said all lightning connectors fail. However there’s a notable issue with the fact that they are designed with no protection for the pins, which can result in premature failure. USB-C does not have this flaw. All you managed to point out is that USB-C can get lint inside of the port, which is a flaw with all ports. That’s not unique to USB-C. It also doesn’t render your cable garbage either.

The way Apple is moving, it seems wireless is the future. But all we can do is read the tea leaves.

Exactly, so the whining about the EU missing out on innovation is useless.

 

[jlc1978]

So since you wouldn’t benefit from faster transfer speeds, nobody would? There are certainly people out there with rather large troves of data that would benefit. Otherwise 1 TB iPhones wouldn’t need to exist. Some folks music and movie libraries are rather large I imagine. Come on, understanding why someone might want faster transfer speeds takes no imagination.

However, should Apple spend the money and add to the phone's costs to satisfy a small percentage of users? I think Apple would answer no. Just because some customers want X doesn't mean you should do it.

I would guess most users use the cable to charge and perhaps backup, so faster speeds would not be noticed by them. Wireless will probably be fast enough and lets Apple finally get rid of ports on an iPhone.

Apple could very well stick with USB-2 USB-C for cost reasons and still comply with the directive if it becomes law.

 

[vipergts2207]

However, should Apple spend the money and add to the phone's costs to satisfy a small percentage of users? I think Apple would answer no. Just because some customers want X doesn't mean you should do it.

I would guess most users use the cable to charge and perhaps backup, so faster speeds would not be noticed by them. Wireless will probably be fast enough and lets Apple finally get rid of ports on an iPhone.

Apple could very well stick with USB-2 USB-C for cost reasons and still comply with the directive if it becomes law.

Do we even know the price difference between lightning versus USB-C receptacles?

Your argument that most people only use the port to charge with is one I agree with. However it also undercuts those making the argument that the EU is going to miss out on future innovation in that area. Clearly the innovation will be coming in wireless paradigms, not wired.

 

[jlc1978]

Do we even know the price difference between lightning versus USB-C receptacles?

For me it’s the development costs, not the component costs, that drive adoption. Apple no doubt feels it has a reliable cost effective solution and thus no reason to spend money to change the plug.

Your argument that most people only use the port to charge with is one I agree with. However it also undercuts those making the argument that the EU is going to miss out on future innovation in that area. Clearly the innovation will be coming in wireless paradigms, not wired.

I agree wireless is the next big move. By the time the EU directive becomes law it may be moot as cables are no longer used for charging or data.