Hmm...being an American is pretty troublesome, isn't it? You have to defend companies that might be helping to steal your money?
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EU Questions Apple on Fraud Prevention After Forcing Support for Riskier App Distribution
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These days it's mostly embarrassing on the international stage ... even if just considering the last 72 hours or so.
Pet social project ? You have no clue what EU is right? You write as if is a federal government - it is not. You have point, EU should be better to develop their ideas and regulators are part of the issue. Risk capital is another.
I don't have to do anything, and I'm honestly not even defending Apple here, although I'd strongly push back on the assertation they are "helping steal my money".
As I said up thread, I have no issue with the EU looking into this. It certainly makes more sense than forcing Apple open because they don't think closed ecosystems should be allowed to exist. But the EU should recognize that they have made the problem worse with their actions. However I suspect they will continue to believe that their regulations can do no wrong, only the regulated can.
There is a difference between fraud with an app that not caught in the review process and a fraud in which Apple actively participates. You do not seem to make that distinction in your comment. Admittedly, I am just reading what is in the comment I am replying to nd that may not fairly represent what your are saying.
Unfortunately, EU regulatory authorities have little if any credibility with anyone outside of the EU. They are not viewed as unbiased or unmotivated by geopolitical forces. They are seen as extremely nationalistic and as subsidizers of inefficiency. The exterior presentation is as you say, what's underneath it as not perceived as you seem to think it should be. The perception is not that they are leveling the playing field for consumers but that they are acting in the interest of their geopolitics. They have made it clear on several occasions that intend to use taxes as a punishment for success. They have proposed exceeding justified and needed regulation to keep tech companies from being unaccountable. Although Trump has employed extortion politics to remedy what he sees as economic injustice, this is not a Trump issue beyond his responses.e short version is even Apple haters in North America along with other platforms and the South Koreans and Chinese have almost zero trust that EU regulators are unbiased and seek fair outcomes.
As a side question, why have almost no EU tech companies come even close to the success of American, Chinese or South Korean tech companies? Consider if tax and regulatory environment have failed to aid in building the infrastructure that allows those kinds of successes.
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You have. You are one of the most vociferous.
No one in the EU is asking opening up any closed systems, but...all the EU is asking/demanding is that make those systems more secure, especially for their citizens, so some creepy app would not steal their citizens money. If those systems are quite secure, then even the Americans money will be safe.
Me, upthread:
Again, I have no issue with EU looking into this. I do think it's ironic they are given the DMA, but this is absolutely something worth looking into. If it turns out Apple could be doing more then I'll be glad the EU did look into it. Unlike the DMA's overreaches, preventing scam apps from harming citizens is an appropriate use of government regulation.
Not sure how you can argue that the DMA doesn't force open closed systems. It absolutely does and that makes EU citizens less safe and secure. It exposes them to a lot more creepy apps that will steal their money on third party stores. According to the EU, Apple isn't even allowed to warn users third party stores are less safe, even though they are, because that might discourage people from using third party stores.No one in the EU is asking opening up any closed systems, but...all the EU is asking/demanding is that make those systems more secure, especially for their citizens, so some creepy app would not steal their citizens money. If those systems are quite secure, then even the Americans money will be safe.
Read your posts in all other such threads.
What makes things secure for EU citizens is up to them, not up to the Americans. Simple?
Read your posts in all other such threads.
What makes things secure for EU citizens is up to them, not up to the Americans. Simple?
You know it's possible that people can think government regulation is appropriate in some instances and not others.
Fun fact: I actually approve of a lot of EU regulations that we don't have in the US, just not the major ones around tech, because on the whole I think those particular regulations harm innovation, show a complete disregard for good user experience, and make everyone's devices less safe and secure in attempt to solve made up problems the free market already has.
But sure, you got me. Because I said "EU regulation bad" about the DMA, I'm not allowed to think "It's ok for the EU to investigate how companies deal with scam apps." Apologies.
Hmm...what would you do if/when your Apple product dies after one year (+ one day) in the US? Would Apple repair it for free?
My only point was, I don't have an issue with the EU investigating how Apple deals with scam apps, and further, just because I am strongly against one regulation doesn't mean I can't support others. In fact, there are parts of the DMA I actually am in favor of, I just think on the whole the regulation does much more harm than good, and in this particular instance is ironic because the EU has done more to expose its citizens to scam apps than anyone who isn't actively scamming people.
To read behind the lines of your question above, while I don't have a strong opinion, I am not particularly in favor of the government mandating a warranty period for devices. I think in general it raises prices for everyone, and the free market is perfectly capable of dealing with companies with poor reliability without government interference. But I also don't think that sort of regulation hurts innovation or leads to bad user experience. (I would note that every time Apple prices are announced, we get a lot of EU citizens on MacRumors complaining that prices are higher in the EU; regulations like "mandatory longer warranties" are a contributing factor to the price differences between the US and EU.)
HOWEVER, despite my (tepid) opposition to that type of regulation, if significant numbers of Apple devices were failing right after the base warranty expired, I do think it would be reasonable for the government to look into whether or not Apple was doing something nefarious, say trying to push Apple Care sales.
So to repeat, I am happy to have the EU look into how Apple and others deal with scam apps on their App Stores. If they find Apple/Google/etc. could do things better, I'd be open to the idea of regulations to make them be better, assuming the regulations didn't go overboard and, in my opinion, do more harm than good.
Oh, you do!
Go read all your past posts in other such threads.
The EU regulations are for the people, who live there, not for the Americans.
To be perfectly clear, I don't have an issue with the EU. I do have issues with certain EU laws/regulations (in the same way I have issues with a lot of US laws/regulations). But, I used to live in the EU, I speak a non-English EU language fluently, and my brother is a naturalized citizen of an EU country. My wife is investigating EU citizenship for herself and our kid. I have lots of friends who live in and are from the EU, and I think, on the whole, the EU does a lot of good for its citizens. They're just, in my opinion, misguided when it comes to regulating big tech and in the process are making things worse for their citizens (and non-EU citizens too). So while you say the DMA and similar laws are "for the people who live there", I think those laws are actually making things worse for the people who live there, and actively hampering innovation in a misguided, if well meaning, attempt to make things better.
The entire point of this conversation was me saying "I think it's fine for the EU to look into this." I stand by that point.
Did ya'll read the article? It clearly says they're asking Apple about fraud in Apple's store. Not other stores on Apple's platforms.
You don't live in the EU, so don't fret so much. Worry about that you'd have to pay more for the same things that you'd paid less a few months ago, few weeks ago, you know, tariffs.
I have read this several times and still can't understand what point you think you are making or what you expect the EU regulators to do about it except abolish capitalism. There have been lots of large European tech companies who basically concentrated on Europe. There have been lots who went global as soon as they could because they wanted to. Your premise that "just about none achieved success" before spreading overseas is a nonsense. You don't get the funding to do that without showing investors both success in your local market and the likely prospect of more overseas, unless you were born stinking rich to start with.
Lots have come and gone. Such is the nature of a fast moving environment such as tech. This isn't limited to Europe. Japan ruled the roost in the 1980s. Not so much these days. Think of the former household names in the US as well. They crop up on nostalgia programs on the television now and then.
You would have to expand your horizons a bit further than household tech - that is pretty much the domain of Asia these days due to labour cost and the supply of raw materials. When it comes to high value commercial tech, that is a different ball game. Less price sensitive and less prone to outsourcing.
"Not sure how you can argue that the DMA doesn't force open closed systems. It absolutely does and that makes EU citizens less safe and secure. "
What does DMA have to do with this investigation? This isn't about alternative app stores, this is about Apple's (and others as well) App Store.
No it’s not.
For certain premium Android phones, Google is going to require an app’s developer to be registered with them before they can be sideloaded, because Google sees 50x more malware coming from sideloaded apps. But they’re not “ending sideloading”.
A new layer of security for certified Android devices
Starting in 2026 and in select countries first, Android apps must be registered to a verified developer in order to be installed.android-developers.googleblog.com
Literally what I said. They're not ending sideloading, but rather requiring apps running on certain, premium devices to have developers register. If the developers register, then they can still offer their apps outside of the Play Store.
From the first line of your link. Emphasis mine:
Google is closing the door on unrestricted sideloading on Android. Starting September 2026, only apps from verified developers will be allowed on Google-certified Android devices.
That's not "ending sideloading."
In Europe, and in the world outside the USA, there are quite a few non-Google-certified Android devices. They don't pay much attention to so-called American technology (made in China ?), and they appear to have much more secure devices.
One can design something, but it has to be manufactured somewhere, and that's where the real technology comes into play.
I was responding to a user who said "no one is forcing Apple open" which is why I brought up the DMA.
I agree this investigation, which again I'm fine with the EU doing, doesn't have anything to do with the DMA, outside of being really ironic given the DMA's forcing Apple to expose its users to more scam apps.
I meant cracking down on unrestricted sideloading. That’s still putting an end to a form of it