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Yeah sure guy that’s why companies require AV on computers attached to their network. But no, you want to attach your phone running apps you got from the internet and the company should accommodate you. Sure guy sure.
Nothing against AV on the client side to safe the client computer from its user stupidity. A decent network structure should be secure without depending of the safety of the attached clients, there are many ways to achieve this. Regarding AV, every access to network resources should be instantly scanned, scanned by AV appliances, specially in the days of BYOD. But you’re right, I see admin noobs doing the same errors over and over again, across multiple companies.
 
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I don't think you get to use the phrase "new comers" when they've been around for 15 years, but you do you. And like I said, the others don't even exist anymore to support
Ok, the are the newer of the phone os's, which makes them the new comers.
 
Disagree to a degree: There is consumer choice between a closed system (iOS) vs an open system (Android). The argument is that the EU is de facto removing those choices by making all devices act the same. This seems it is level-playing field but it is actually creating homogeneity under the guise of choice. These decrees are removing any opportunity to differentiate (why does everybody have to use USBC?). Instead everyone needs to be the same, act the same, and provide a similar experience across the board.
RE: NFC Apple fought the battle to create something that is now proving to be valuable. (Let's not forget how everyone thought that Apple could not be successful in this space). Now that Apple has created it, everyone wants access to it. No one was very supportive when they started. But now Apple is being unfair.

And I do agree with the misleading pricing examples that you cite above. Sadly, we in the US always have to read the fine print. And take into consideration tax + gratuity anytime we go out.
So, you think not having a choice is a choice too? I never would have guessed somebody would use that as an argument.
 
If Apple doesn't like it, they can leave. Though they probably won't have many places left to sell their products by the time it's all said and done.
They should and then block all access to iCloud and such for the EU countries. Maybe the EU will actually develop their own phone. I think the U.S. needs to start looking at all the UK and EU business and see what they can extract from them.
 
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It shouldn't be happening in the first place is my point. Clear government overreach.
Regulating markets isn't government overreach.

Ok, the are the newer of the phone os's, which makes them the new comers.
At this point they're the only game in town, so your point would be...?

They should and then block all access to iCloud and such for the EU countries. Maybe the EU will actually develop their own phone. I think the U.S. needs to start looking at all the UK and EU business and see what they can extract from them.
I can't wait to see shareholder reaction to Apple giving up a quarter of their global revenue. ?
Cook will be gone before the ink dries.
 
Regulating markets isn't government overreach.

Depends on what is being regulated. In this case, clear overreach in my opinion. This isn't protecting anybody or anything. It's micromanaging. Consumers already have plenty of choices. To think they need to be able to have an unlimited number of choices is absurd.
 
What I find concerning is the combination between uncontrolled apps from third parties and an open API to the payment system.
For any app not coming from the Apple App Store there is no safeguard against it using APIs it shouldn't. So if you just sideload the funny fart app everyone is talking about, it may access your payment data even though you don't consider it a "payment app".
Apple has the good concept of entitlements for apps, but that requires someone reviewing these and denying distribution of apps that want to do things they shouldn't.
How so? Even let’s say hypothetically side loaded app has malicious agenda to steal your information. It can’t access to your storaged bank information on iPhone because there is physical and software level protection mechanisms. Also, if you don’t want to use side loaded app don’t side load.
 
Not philosophically, no, there isn’t. It’s perfectly conceivable that someone else could write the API and the code underlying it better than Apple.
Of course there's always the option that someone else could write better software than Apple or anyone else. I wrote operating systems in the past for specific purposes, maybe I could write a better macOS than Apple or a better Windows than Microsoft, maybe not. But that's not the point, the EU is asking for a high level API access to NFC to work with payment systems (and others), no one is asking to write better software than Apple for exactly the same purpose or to bypass Apples implementation of hardware.
 
Not sure what you're saying. If this goes through they still would not allow access to any piece of a device. That's not how APIs and libraries/frameworks/toolkits work. That being said, anyone can already get full access to functionality by reverse engineering right now. George Hotz got access to the low level Neural Engine framework on M1 series, which is closed and only accessible to Apple.
What I'm saying is it illegal for Apple to not allow access to parts of their device? Are they required to allow access to any part of their device? Can they build a device made up of many different technologies that they either paid for/made themselves/ or license (IP), and prevent anyone else developer, user, whatever from accessing it?

Yes, anyone with a lot of time on their hands can hack away at every single thing made on earth. That isn't the point here. The point is clearly, can Apple build something that works the way they intended it to, and it be legal? If the answer is no. Then what is the point of IP, or building anything new if you just have to give it away to everyone else that didn't take the time/energy to build it themselves?
 
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We'd barely notice. Ok technically I'm in the UK not the EU but I expect it's the same. The days of Apple phones being ubiquitous across this side of the Atlantic are long gone. I work in a business with about 400 other employees and, scaling up from the 100 or so employees I know, maybe ten of us have an iPhone. Outside my own family who are all musicians/creators, no one I know owns a Mac, and you never ever see them in UK offices: all Windows PCs. Apple Watch? Literally never seen anybody anywhere wearing one. Air Pods are probably the most common-seen Apple device, but if they disappeared, people would mostly get along just fine with some other equivalent wireless earbud.
I'm in the UK and I work for a fintech bank. We run exclusively using macOS and have thousands of machines deployed across our offices. It's rare for me to leave the house and to not see other people using/wearing an Apple Watch and I don't live in London. I'm a couple of hundred miles north of the capital so this just isn't accurate. Maybe that's your experience but Apple enjoys approaching a 50% market share in smartphone sales in the UK and that percentage is higher still in smart watch ownership.
 
I think the U.S. needs to start looking at all the UK and EU business and see what they can extract from them.
Extract? No one is extracting anything from anyone. But hey, newsflash, anyone who wants to sell a products in the US is already complying with US regulations and required certifications, believe it or not. Same for Japan, Australia and basically all other countries in the world.
 
What I'm saying is it illegal for Apple to not allow access to parts of their device? Are they required to allow access to any part of their device? Can they build a device made up of many different technologies that they either paid for/made themselves/ or license (IP), and prevent anyone else developer, user, whatever from accessing it?

Yes, anyone with a lot of time on their hands can hack away at every single thing made on earth. That isn't the point here. The point is clearly, can Apple build something that works the way they intended it to, and it be legal? If the answer is no. Then what is the point of IP, or building anything new if you just have to give it away to everyone else that didn't take the time/energy to build it themselves?
Did you know it's actually possible to profit from your work and IP without resorting to using it in an anti-competitive manner? Companies do it every day.

That's their claim for what they're trying to do. I reject it. You don't have to agree with me.
Yup and you don't have to agree with me or governments all around the world. ?‍♂️
 
Of course there's always the option that someone else could write better software than Apple or anyone else. I wrote operating systems in the past for specific purposes, maybe I could write a better macOS than Apple or a better Windows than Microsoft, maybe not. But that's not the point, the EU is asking for a high level API access to NFC to work with payment systems (and others), no one is asking to write better software than Apple for exactly the same purpose or to bypass Apples implementation of hardware.
As I said in my original response to you, the statement was directed at those arguing that third party software might be better than Apple’s and that’s why it should be allowed. That argument applies to the OS and API just as much as it does to browsers, or whatever. That’s why I tole you that you were arguing against something they and I weren’t even talking about.
 
It’s no longer my choice but developer’s choice. That’s what people aren’t getting. As I said elsewhere, if it can be guaranteed by law or a clause in the regulation or whatever that any App on iOS sold elsewhere must also be sold on Apple’s App Store, then we have an agreement to your statement. Other than that, the “keep your phone locked down, nothing will change” take doesn’t line up.

Apps will be pulled from the App Store. Using historical trends says Epic will make their own store and buy up exclusives. How do I get Final Fantasy 7 Remake on PC as an example? Not “the” gaming platform Steam, but only via Epic. This will happen on iOS. And if you say ignore said apps because they aren’t important, well I say to you ignore side loading because it’s not important.

It hasn't happened on Android.
What makes you so sure it WILL happen on iOS?
 
This is the solution if the kleptocrats in the EU continue this: an EU version of iPhone and iOS.

Charge more for the extra engineering, specific manufacturing and software development so that the people who are advocating for this are paying for it. Everything has a cost and the EU should be the ones to cover it.
You see to consider iPhone a necessity and that people will buy it irrespective of what it is on the phone. Even as it is, iOS is a minority in the EU. If they try to do such "creative" stuff, the people of the EU will reject the phones so fast, Apple will be embarrassed.
 
It hasn't happened on Android.
What makes you so sure it WILL happen on iOS?
Again, if it’s not an issue on Android where the numbers of side loading is so low, why do we have this coming at Apple right now?
 
Did you know it's actually possible to profit from your work and IP without resorting to using it in an anti-competitive manner? Companies do it every day.
There's nothing anti-competitive about building a competitive advantage for yourself. Anti-competitive behaviours are usually when you interfere with competition. Microsoft in the 90s is the obvious example. They entered into contract with PC vendors to prevent the PC vendors from pre-installing alternative web browsers. Google is doing a similar thing now with smartphone vendors, by entering into contracts with their own horizontal competitors to install Google Play services.

Apple isn't doing anything to prevent competition. They simply have invested billions to create an advantage for themselves.
 
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