EU to Appeal Against Apple's $15 Billion Tax Bill Ruling

[MacRumors]

The European Commission on Friday said it would appeal a court ruling that overturned its demand that Apple pay 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) in tax to the Irish government (via CNBC).

"The Commission has decided to appeal before the European Court of Justice the General Court's judgment of July 2020 on the Apple State aid case in Ireland," Margrethe Vestager, the head of competition policy in the EU, said in a statement.

The EU's General Court in July sided with Apple, and said the EU's executive arm, led by antitrust chief Margrethe Vestager, had failed to show Ireland's tax arrangements with the company were illegal state aid.

Both Apple and Ireland appealed the original 2016 ruling, which stated that Apple owed the country over 13 billion euros in tax payments because the arrangements between the two countries were unfair.

In 2016, Apple CEO Tim Cook called the EC's original decision "total political crap" and said that Apple believed it would be reversed. "The decision is wrong, and it's not based on law or facts, it's based on politics. And I think it's very important that we stand up and say that very loudly," said Cook at the time.

The final decision will now be made by the Court of Justice of the EU (CJEU), the highest court in the European Union.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: EU to Appeal Against Apple's $15 Billion Tax Bill Ruling

 

[TiggrToo]

It’s times like this where I wonder if countries begin to look at EU membership and begin to think about the “what-if”s...

 

[MLVC]

It’s times like this where I wonder if countries begin to look at EU membership and begin to think about the “what-if”s...

And next they see the shambles that is Brexit and think "nah, better not"

 

[Unggoy Murderer]

Crazy, even the country that Apple "owes" the tax to, is on Apple's side.

Why the hell people think the EU is a good thing is absolutely beyond me - why should countries allow their customs and rules be dictated by and rotten, unelected group of old slugs...?

 

[maerz001]

It's absolutely crazy that even the country that Apple "owes" the tax to, is on Apple's side.

Why the hell people think the EU is a good thing is absolutely beyond me - why should countries allow their customs and rules be dictated by and rotten, unelected group of old slugs...?

What power do you think would a 4 million people country like Ireland, Croatia or Slovenia without the EU have to negotiate with China, US or India???

 

[TiggrToo]

And next they see the shambles that is Brexit and think "nah, better not"

Today yes, but that debacle will not last forever. If the UK finally extradites it’s collective head from it’s posterior, and the economy finally improves outside of the EU...

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

It’s times like this where I wonder if countries begin to look at EU membership and begin to think about the “what-if”s...

We actually have gained a number of good things. I only know a good source in danish, which most likely wouldn't be of good use to you, but here's a great page available in english by a quick google: www.myeu.uk

There's a reason that most europeans actually quite like the EU: https://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/archives/eb/eb49/eb49_report_en.pdf

It's absolutely crazy that even the country that Apple "owes" the tax to, is on Apple's side.

Why? They earn way more than 13B$ long term, and makes them a corporate haven, which provides them with even more money, so it makes pretty good sense for them to be on Apples side.

Why the hell people think the EU is a good thing is absolutely beyond me

Simple: Most people think that companies should pay their share of wealth to the societies they operate in, and not just channel them out of the country.

- why should countries allow their customs and rules be dictated by and rotten, unelected group of old slugs...?

The average age of EU staff in 2018 was 48, which isn't really 'old slugs' by any means. And surprise, surprise, we do actually elect them.

 

[RickDEGH]

What power do you think would a 4 million people country like Croatia or Slovenia without the EU would have to negotiate with China, US or India???

Let’s expand the blog to cover all countries of the world so that we don’t have to negotiate with each other anymore. Then the African Union wouldn’t have to withstand the bullying powers of the European Union.

 

[MLVC]

It's absolutely crazy that even the country that Apple "owes" the tax to, is on Apple's side.

Why the hell people think the EU is a good thing is absolutely beyond me - why should countries allow their customs and rules be dictated by and rotten, unelected group of old slugs...?

I suggest you read up on the democratic process of the EU, you'll find it's more democratic than some (former) member states.

Today yes, but that debacle will not last forever. If the UK finally extradites it’s collective head from it’s posterior, and the economy finally improves outside of the EU...

I've been hearing this since 2016 and instead of getting better it's continuously getting worse. But I'm sure next year will be the year of the UK. Like it was supposed to be this year, and last year etc.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Threads like this you get to learn so much

 

[TiggrToo]

I suggest you read up on the democratic process of the EU, you'll find it's more democratic than some (former) member states.



I've been hearing this since 2016 and instead of getting better it's continuously getting worse. But I'm sure next year will be the year of the UK. Like it was supposed to be this year, and last year etc.

I always figured it would take a minimum of 5 years AFTER the Brexit completed before the country would recover.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

The EU is trying to create equal levels of business within the EU and countries like Ireland greatly undermined that effort by special taxing one of the largest corporations. And even beyond the EU there is great international efforts to make tax havens unusable.

I certainly hope ya'll find it not OK that Apple paid only a few percent tax while everyone else pays a lot more than that -even in the same country. And like 20-25% in the rest of Europe and 35% (at least back then) in the US.

And, yes it's questionable to now ask that money from Apple that was agreed between Ireland and Apple, but it was also questionable from Ireland and not a safe trade for Apple to make that deal in first place.

 

[rodpascoe]

Why the hell people think the EU is a good thing is absolutely beyond me - why should countries allow their customs and rules be dictated by and rotten, unelected group of old slugs...?

Said by someone who clearly has no clue about the EU or how it operates.

 

[TiggrToo]

Said by someone who clearly has no clue about the EU or how it operates.

I agree with their post. As a British expat I lived and breathed EU regulations ever since Wilson held the 1975 referendum on Britain’s membership of the EC until I finally escaped the country 20 years ago.

Since I’d been gone too long I was not allowed to vote in the Brexit. Despite my utter disgust of all things EU I would have voted to remain because I knew leaving would be a total ****show.

I was genuinely surprised to see the vote end the way it did, but fascinated to see the results from afar.

My plan is to return to blighty in a few years time - hopefully by then things will show an improvement.

 

[MecPro]

Said by someone who clearly has no clue about the EU or how it operates.

Probably British and only think the EU takes money from the country.

UK is a complete shambles and anyone who is defending this decision just seems anti-EU.

Apple needs to pay their damn taxes. Ireland only let this through so they can have Apples HQ otherwise it would have been somewhere in England.

 

[Unggoy Murderer]

Probably British and only think the EU takes money from the country.

UK is a complete shambles and anyone who is defending this decision just seems anti-EU.

Apple needs to pay their damn taxes. Ireland only let this through so they can have Apples HQ otherwise it would have been somewhere in England.

British / Scottish - same thing. If you could explain what we got in return for our £12.5b/year bill for "membership" that we can't do on our own, that would be great.

I'd say we're in a far bigger shambles over COVID-19, than we were over 2016-20 period - kind of puts it all in perspective and shows how much Brexit was a non-issue. The UK will be fine, and the EU will be fine too (just with less budget to burn).

And why should they pay taxes if they negotiated a deal with the government they "owe" it to? I don't think there will be a single person in or around Cork that's complaining about it, let's put it that way.

 

[samh004]

And next they see the shambles that is Brexit and think "nah, better not"

Most countries could very easily go back to a hard border, but that's not easy to do with Northern Ireland. I'd say a large part of the headache is right there.

That's got nothing to do with the tax issue though. I wonder if Ireland and Apple couldn't just drop the case and then Ireland could make a large donation to some new Apple infrastructure for them. Sure, it would be obvious what was going on, but there must be a way they can spend the money that is now rightfully theirs and keep Apple on side at the same time heck, build a new football stadium with the money and name it Apple Park because that's where you got the money, free naming rights would be well received

 

[laz232]

Crazy, even the country that Apple "owes" the tax to, is on Apple's side.

Why the hell people think the EU is a good thing is absolutely beyond me - why should countries allow their customs and rules be dictated by and rotten, unelected group of old slugs...?

"Crazy, even the country that Apple "owes" the tax to, is on Apple's side."
This belies a naive understanding of politics - and finance.

The issue is whether an artificially low tax rate was effectively unfair competition within a single market - unless you support a "race to the bottom" economy?

Whether the EU is democratic is a different matter.

 

[kcslc]

Pay up, Apple.

 

[Squozen]

Today yes, but that debacle will not last forever. If the UK finally extradites it’s collective head from it’s posterior, and the economy finally improves outside of the EU...

That word ‘if’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Today yes, but that debacle will not last forever. If the UK finally extradites it’s collective head from it’s posterior, and the economy finally improves outside of the EU...

It will last longer than that, especially if what remains of the UK attempts to negotiate international trade agreements that may break international law "in a limited and specific way".

That word ‘if’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

Agreed.

 

[IIGS User]

Let's face it. In general, Apple is a crappy corporate citizen. They don't pay their taxes, they treat their employees like thieves, they look the other way when their subcontractors abuse their employees and enable the countries that make their insane profits possible to oppress the human rights of their citizens.

Apple ceded any moral high ground they held a long time ago. Apple is a money machine. Don't get me wrong, I like their products. I intend to continue to purchase those products so long as they suit my needs. But for the most part, it's just another hive of money grubbing cooperate turds.

 

[nexusrule]

British / Scottish - same thing. If you could explain what we got in return for our £12.5b/year bill for "membership" that we can't do on our own, that would be great.

I'd say we're in a far bigger shambles over COVID-19, than we were over 2016-20 period - kind of puts it all in perspective and shows how much Brexit was a non-issue. The UK will be fine, and the EU will be fine too (just with less budget to burn).

And why should they pay taxes if they negotiated a deal with the government they "owe" it to? I don't think there will be a single person in or around Cork that's complaining about it, let's put it that way.

Actually, you still have to begin to pay the consequences of Brexit.

 

[saqibhasan]

“Both Apple and Ireland appealed the original 2016 ruling, which stated that Apple owed the country over 13 billion euros in tax payments because the arrangements between the two countries were unfair.”

Apple is a country now?

 

[Delta-NC]

Deleted.