ROFL. Perhaps in 2035 the UK might, just might finally escape the quagmire that BREXIT has become. In the meantime this case will still be rumbling on in the courts just like the various anti-trust cases in the EU and the USA
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EU to Appeal Against Apple's $15 Billion Tax Bill Ruling
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While I tend to agree in general this is not the right topic to criticize the EU or it‘s institutions. It‘s very clear that Apple should pay fair taxes like everybody else and with fair taxes I don‘t mean what the law, which was obviously havily influenced by lobbyists, requires them to pay.
On the other hand. Apple is leading the charge in philanthropy, human rights, the environment.
They categorically do not treat their employees as thieves, they follow standard security practices.
They follow all local laws and pay the taxes they are legally required to pay(as do all of us, nobody I know pays one more cent than legally required)
Apple appears to try to do the right thing and give high marks for their high moral ground. They make a ton of revenue because they produce products and services that people want to buy.
Apple is not perfect and some of the criticism leveled at them is justified. It seems people are willing to pay the price for apple products.
All in all it’s easy to take talking points and spin those points into some type of negative or positive position of Apple.
It just blows my mind that they are wasting so much time and energy on trying to get money for Ireland who DOESN'T EVEN WANT IT! It would be another thing entirely if they were seeking reparations of some kind to the collective EU, but no. Just a payment to a company who is fighting against the whole thing.
Mental.
Mental.
In a nutshell for non EU citizens:
All EU members put some of their money in a big pile every year and then EU officials distributes it back out again where it's needed the most (its the intention at least). Richer countries usually end up contributing a bit more than they get back and poorer countries end up gaining a bit extra. Long term plan is to build a more equal and stable Europe (Make sure WWII never happens again..).
By (more or less) refusing to tax corporations, Ireland remains artificially worse off than it needs to be.
So while the Irish gov. gets to be the good guy to all the big multinationals, everyone else gets stuck with picking up the tab..
(Including their own citizens who despite paying high taxes get basically nothing in return for it).
All in all it has very little to do with Apple per se (I can't blame them for taking a good deal when it's offered to them), it's more about every EU member pulling their own weight when being fully able to do so.
All EU members put some of their money in a big pile every year and then EU officials distributes it back out again where it's needed the most (its the intention at least). Richer countries usually end up contributing a bit more than they get back and poorer countries end up gaining a bit extra. Long term plan is to build a more equal and stable Europe (Make sure WWII never happens again..).
By (more or less) refusing to tax corporations, Ireland remains artificially worse off than it needs to be.
So while the Irish gov. gets to be the good guy to all the big multinationals, everyone else gets stuck with picking up the tab..
(Including their own citizens who despite paying high taxes get basically nothing in return for it).
All in all it has very little to do with Apple per se (I can't blame them for taking a good deal when it's offered to them), it's more about every EU member pulling their own weight when being fully able to do so.
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It just blows my mind each and every time when people make comments in this and related Topics without having a clue what they are talking about.
Mental.
Do your research before commenting.
This ain't over yet, I stand with the EU on this one.
"You are ignorant because you don't agree with me."
-justperry
I'm not sure which is more popular, beating up on Apple or beating up on the EU. All I know is that people should pay their fair share. Most big corporations do NOT.
Corporations and individuals should pay exactly what the tax laws say they should pay. “Not paying their fair share” is loosely-goosey.
Apple has paid every cent the law says they owe. Do you pay more tax than the law requires?
Please define "fair share". The way I see it, one's fair share is what the laws says one owes. If the government thinks the amount of taxes I pay isn’t fair, they change the law and increase what I pay. Why is this different?
Only in the short term though.
When the GFC hit, Ireland was one of the worst hit countries, because all those corporates that set up shop in the tax haven had to close down their production, and because Ireland had been foregoing all it's tax, it was broke, and had no money to save itself. It was royally screwed. And on top of that, because of the boom in Ireland before the GFC, all the businesses and workers that moved there all started buying commercial and residential property, and thus there was a massive boom in property prices, all paid for by debt. And then when the GFC hit, the property prices crashed, and all this debt was suddenly trash, and the banks had to be bailed out, thus sending the country into massive debt, and thus it had no money for stimulus. And if you're a local, what you've seen from this strategy is massive immigration into your country as people pile in to fill the jobs boom, and you've seen property prices zoom out of reach of your children. It seems like a nice strategy in boom times, but it causes horrendous pain when the boom ends, and even during the boom, it ruins your country with mass immigration and overcrowding.
Then there's the problem if every other country decides to match Ireland's tax rates. Then Ireland is no longer anything special to attract business. And then every country that does this has just killed it's own tax income. It's a race to the bottom that ruins every country, and all it does is help project companies like Apple to the 2 trillion status.
In the long term it's a tragically losing strategy, and only sends your country to overcrowded third world status. And thus why the EU wants to fight it.
You and I both know the extent it goes to in order to minimize it's tax bill.
Yes, they pay what they are due to according to the letter of the law, but not the spirit of the law. If you disagree, perhaps you should look up the Panama Papers.
All I know is you, I, and, effectively, 100% of people try to take every legal deduction, loophole, deferment, etc. possible in order to minimize any taxes owed. The more money one has the better the affordable advice and the trickier it gets, but it remains that it’s up to the various governments to change the laws and close the loopholes. Now, if Apple was using illegal tactics it’d be another story.
its hypocritical to fault others for doing the same thing that one does oneself, even if the scale is significantly different.
Those that answered regarding level playing field, race to the bottom are correct.
To those who answered with largely anti EU sentiments, you must change who you trust for your facts, be it the press or politicians. They’ve lied to you and put us in a very weak and vulnerable trading position.
They know you’re gullible and they work to arm you with disinformation. You’re ignorance is part of our problem.
To those who answered with largely anti EU sentiments, you must change who you trust for your facts, be it the press or politicians. They’ve lied to you and put us in a very weak and vulnerable trading position.
They know you’re gullible and they work to arm you with disinformation. You’re ignorance is part of our problem.
Apple passes the cost onto consumers like you. Congrats.
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The EU thought different. So did Ireland.
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No it's not, it's you playing semantics.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here, especially since Ireland is fine with what Apple pays, since Ireland is the government that tells Apple what to pay. The EU has a problem with Ireland, not Apple per se.
A "fair share" of taxes is what the law says one owes. Ireland told Apple what it owes and Apple paid it.
No, you just don’t like the laws that allow large corporations low tax rates, which has nothing to do with “semantics”. You’re blaming this on semantics.
You don't know me sir, so please don't accuse me of anything.
While it's not illegal to use these tactics, looking at the leaked documents, it does indeed highlight the extent of which they went to to manipulate the system. That is not ok.
In any case, let's see what happens. I, for one, am with the EU on this.
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I didn’t accuse you of anything. And if you don’t like people telling you what you know, you might not want to tell others what they know.
So are you saying that you don’t look for and take deductions (assuming your country allows such)?
So you admit it’s not illegal, yet blame Apple for following the laws? That's misplaced; you should blame the lawmakers for allowing it.
I'm not really "with" anyone; I just believe that it’s hypocritical for people to look for loopholes, deductions, etc. on their taxes and then turn around and fault others for doing the same. I also think that if the EU wants to declare this illegal aid that’s fine, but that should not be retroactive, only moving forward.
Sure - so write legislation defining how much Apple’s “share” is and they will raise prices and pay the tax.
This lawsuit is trying to toss out tax legislation in Ireland dating back to 2004, and retro-actively change the law to increase the tax rate. That’s unacceptable and will make companies afraid to do business in the EU. If your profits can be taken away decades later, then how can you possibly have any confidence in doing business?