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True, but doesn’t change my (general) point. The current USB-C specification has ample headroom to for extending current functionality (faster charging or transfer speeds) through standard-based means rather than proprietary means.

However, it also specifically allows for proprietary solutions, which is my point. Nothing in the reg or spec prohibits them.

If Apple wants faster charging that exceeds the minimum of the regulation, there’s no needs to do it proprietarily - except to act as a giant cash grab to rake in more money from consumers. Same is true for faster transfer speeds.

A manufacturer could want to ensure the cable will function properly and a proprietary chip would ensure it is compliant.

Debatable. USB-C is a (by now) well-established and AFAIK royalty-free standard. It‘s a very low barrier to clear and there are lots of USB-C products from small or (if you will) non-incumbent manufacturers.

Actually, Non-USB-IF members must pay a small license fee to use the logos.

On the flip side, the regulation discourages incumbents with large marketshare from coming up with and implementing proprietary solutions. When an incumbent company with high marketshare (such as Apple) uses proprietary connectors on their devices and accessories, that creates entry barriers for accessory makers that are higher than a government-mandated standard.

It can, but also means anyone, except USB-IF members such as Apple, etc., now making cables for the EU must license it from the USB-IF to be fully compliant with EU law.

In addition, the USB-IF gets to decide what is compliant; and manufacturers still can make proprietary cable designs.

I'm not saying the reg is wrong, just their are consequences beyond its intent; and regs in general help incumbents.
 
However, it also specifically allows for proprietary solutions, which is my point. Nothing in the reg or spec prohibits them.
Well to be fair why should it adress it? The biggest intrest is to have one usb-c device not getting shortcircuted because they use priporitary solution(looking at you Nintendo).
A manufacturer could want to ensure the cable will function properly and a proprietary chip would ensure it is compliant.


It can, but also means anyone, except USB-IF members such as Apple, etc., now making cables for the EU must license it from the USB-IF to be fully compliant with EU law.
They always had to do that as the IP is owned by USB-IF. Or they can do as now make a cable not called an USB. As this only about the port.
In addition, the USB-IF gets to decide what is compliant; and manufacturers still can make proprietary cable designs.
Seems to be the intent considering they directly points to USB-IF digital documents that describe exactly how to build an USB c cable.
I'm not saying the reg is wrong, just their are consequences beyond its intent; and regs in general help incumbents.
Well it seems to be acording to plan.
 
However, it also specifically allows for proprietary solutions, which is my point. Nothing in the reg or spec prohibits them.
From what I read in/of the regulation, it does allow for proprietary protocols/functionality „on top“ of it - that I agree on.

Not every government regulation creates or increases entry barriers and leads to higher prices though - that (any generalisation to that effect) I disagree on. Given the nature of the standard and Apple’s position in the marketplace however, I maintain that it is a „net“ removal of entry barriers and will, if anything increase competition and lower prices for charging cables.

A manufacturer could want to ensure the cable will function properly and a proprietary chip would ensure it is compliant.
Since such functionality is already part of the established standard (using handshakes and e-markers), it can reasonably be assumed that a manufacturer would use it as merely (or primarily) a pretext in order to charge additional proprietary licensing fees.
 
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Well to be fair why should it adress it? The biggest intrest is to have one usb-c device not getting shortcircuted because they use priporitary solution(looking at you Nintendo).

I agree. Any compliant cable should work without problems.

They always had to do that as the IP is owned by USB-IF. Or they can do as now make a cable not called an USB. As this only about the port.

Seems to be the intent considering they directly points to USB-IF digital documents that describe exactly how to build an USB c cable.

Well it seems to be acording to plan.

It will be inetersting to see what labeling requiremenst will be enforced for cables. If teh EU requires USB-C logos, the cheap cable folks will proabably simply use the logos knowing even if theEU or USB-IF wnated to there is little they can do.

From what I read in/of the regulation, it does allow for proprietary protocols/functionality „on top“ of it - that I agree on.

Which was my point - there may never be one cable to rule tehm all as some seem to think this reg requires.

Not every government regulation creates or increases entry barriers and leads to higher prices though - that (any generalisation to that effect) I disagree on. Given the nature of the standard and Apple’s position in the marketplace however, I maintain that it is a „net“ removal of entry barriers and will, if anything increase competition and lower prices for charging cables.

I never sadid every one does, and doubt this one will have much effect on Apple, Google, et.al. Consumer buying habits won't change much, other than needing to buy new cables and chargers to replace old ones. Most will buy one when they get the phone and be done with it.

At the low end, true compliance will add costs to producing a phone and may impact that market as it is price sensitive.

Overall, however, I doubt it will have much effect either way.

Since such functionality is already part of the established standard (using handshakes and e-markers), it can reasonably be assumed that a manufacturer would use it as merely (or primarily) a pretext in order to charge additional proprietary licensing fees.

There I disagree. Ensuring cables meet the required spec and have the proper handshaking, via proprietary licensed chips, offers more control and assurance when buying cables from a reputable manufacturer. It allows creation of an end to end price not dependent on others to comply to make it work.

From an economic perspective, I 'd bet MiFi is a rounding error nd thus not really driven by the fees collected.
 
I agree. Any compliant cable should work without problems.



It will be inetersting to see what labeling requiremenst will be enforced for cables. If teh EU requires USB-C logos, the cheap cable folks will proabably simply use the logos knowing even if theEU or USB-IF wnated to there is little they can do.
Well just as normal. USB-PD logo must be displayed and CE marking as normal.
Which was my point - there may never be one cable to rule tehm all as some seem to think this reg requires.
At least a step in the right direction.
There I disagree. Ensuring cables meet the required spec and have the proper handshaking, via proprietary licensed chips, offers more control and assurance when buying cables from a reputable manufacturer. It allows creation of an end to end price not dependent on others to comply to make it work.

From an economic perspective, I 'd bet MiFi is a rounding error nd thus not really driven by the fees collected.
Well USB-IF does the same thing. All cables must be verified.

Apple MFI is essentially just double verification.

And as with both, you can't sell it with ether logo or associated names without verification. MFI allow apple to collect a large pool of revenue in services. And it's great way to make commercial for iPhone
 
Which was my point - there may never be one cable to rule tehm all as some seem to think this reg requires.
There is one - and it’s a USB standard. Does it make sense that not every cable supports 40Gbps and has the additional shielding when it will only be used for charging? No. It’s a non-issue, as long as cables are labeled and advertised correctly.

At the low end, true compliance will add costs to producing a phone and may impact that market as it is price sensitive.
True. That said, looking at available phones in Europe today, widely available Android phones starting at 100 or 120 EUROs and that aren’t older than two years already come with USB-C. With the notable exception of the Xiaomi Redmi 12C.

I‘m sure EU regulators have done their homework and determined that non-smartphone phones aren’t that popular in Europe anymore.

Ensuring cables meet the required spec and have the proper handshaking, via proprietary licensed chips, offers more control and assurance when buying cables from a reputable manufacturer
When buying reputable, there really is no need for proprietary chips.
These manufacturers can simply produce standard-conforming cables, test and assure their functionality with proprietary chips.

Moreover, again, even if these cables had proprietary marker chips that assuring they‘ve been tested, there is no need to artificially limit functionality of non-proprietary cables. Especially not in mobile phones of all devices, which don‘t charge at 100 watts.
 
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I haven't gone through the entire thread, but I will say this: When my MBA, iPad Air, Beats Flex all charge with USB-C, it's crazy that I have to carry an extra cable to charge my iPhone too. My work laptop also charges with USB-C, so I can use that too to charge my devices. The death of Lightning cannot come soon enough.
 
I haven't gone through the entire thread, but I will say this: When my MBA, iPad Air, Beats Flex all charge with USB-C, it's crazy that I have to carry an extra cable to charge my iPhone too. My work laptop also charges with USB-C, so I can use that too to charge my devices. The death of Lightning cannot come soon enough.
I see your point but is having to carry two cables instead of one really a burden?
 
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I see your point but is having to carry two cables instead of one really a burden?

I also see the advantages of one cable, although I travel with 3 of each type I use to charge, as well as muliple chargers,; in case one fails I have a backup.
 
I also see the advantages of one cable, although I travel with 3 of each type I use to charge, as well as muliple chargers,; in case one fails I have a backup.
I carry a solid USB-C cable and also a kit to make any combo of USB connections. A charger and external battery round it out. When I travel I throw the 6-way USB charger and all the attached cables into my suitcase.
 
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I see your point but is having to carry two cables instead of one really a burden?
Well i have at many times accidentally thought I brought my lightning cabk2 with me just to discover it was just apples USB-C cable. It's not a burden but an unesesary inconvenience.

If I loose my cable or forgets it in the car etc we can now ask anyone and they will have a us c cable to charge my phone. No more: sorry I don't have an iPhone cable.

I can have a bunch of cables and just know anything is usb c and will charge ny phone/headset/powebank etc etc
 
This is obviously a good thing. Manufacturers have had it too good for far too long.
It amazes me how scare tactics are used to defend big businesses stance, it just needs an heir of truth to make it stand. I wouldn't use an aliexpress special on my low cost/spec iphone se2020 and if i did, i would have to blame my own stupidity using a £2 cables to charge potentially a £1000+ device.

I have had all forms of apple charge cables for 20 odd years. They are not made to last so you have to replace them with more apple cables.

For the last year or so i have used Anker chargers/silicone cables, they are visibly better made, but they are not £2.
 
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This is obviously a good thing. Manufacturers have had it too good for far too long.
It amazes me how scare tactics are used to defend big businesses stance, it just needs an heir of truth to make it stand. I wouldn't use an aliexpress special on my low cost/spec iphone se2020 and if i did, i would have to blame my own stupidity using a £2 cables to charge potentially a £1000+ device.

I have had all forms of apple charge cables for 20 odd years. They are not made to last so you have to replace them with more apple cables.

For the last year or so i have used Anker chargers/silicone cables, they are visibly better made, but they are not £2.
If by apple cables not meant to last , yes I agree that will proper care apple cables will last for 10 years.
 
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I beg to differ, my Apple cables (especially Lightning) either fray at the base of the connector or just stop working after a few years.
How one treats their cable (any type) often determines the life of the cable. I'm very careful how I wrap my cables when not in use and they tend to last forever. I haven't had to buy a cable in a long time because I get a new free one every time I buy a new phone.
 
How one treats their cable (any type) often determines the life of the cable. I'm very careful how I wrap my cables when not in use and they tend to last forever. I haven't had to buy a cable in a long time because I get a new free one every time I buy a new phone.
My 3d party cables have always lasted longer than my Apple cables. And I always went a few years between upgrading. Such as the iPhone 8 to the iPhone 12 last year.
 
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How many amps is a little iPhone pulling?

I’m not really buying the safety thing here

Tons of stuff charge with non zillion dollar cables just fine every day

The quality of the Apple cables has always been pretty bad as well, I agree with the others that 3rd party ones are WAY better than Apple cables
 
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My 3d party cables have always lasted longer than my Apple cables. And I always went a few years between upgrading. Such as the iPhone 8 to the iPhone 12 last year.
It's also a matter of the 3rd party cable itself. Anker cables are more robust than the stock Apple cables but I pay a premium when I buy them.
 
How many amps is a little iPhone pulling?

I’m not really buying the safety thing here

Tons of stuff charge with non zillion dollar cables just fine every day

The quality of the Apple cables has always been pretty bad as well, I agree with the others that 3rd party ones are WAY better than Apple cables
Well the iPhone charger is rated at 1.2 Amps so that would be the max that could be pushed through the cable. Enough to start a fire? Sure. My guess is that most cable fires are due to shorts, which means poor insulation between the wires combined with poor treatment by the user.
 
Well the iPhone charger is rated at 1.2 Amps so that would be the max that could be pushed through the cable. Enough to start a fire? Sure. My guess is that most cable fires are due to shorts, which means poor insulation between the wires combined with poor treatment by the user.
Yeah that’s not asking much of anything of a cable

Think this is more about $$ than $aftey
 
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Yeah that’s not asking much of anything of a cable

Think this is more about $$ than $aftey
Right. I was an electronic technician for 35 years and one thing I learned was to pay attention to the quality of accessories. So I'm willing to spend a bit more for something (like a charger) that won't blow up on me. From experience, I can usually tell a quality product from a piece of 💩.
 
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