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"I hate when the government cares for my life" is a wild statement to make in earnest.
It’s not governments job to tell me if I can smoke or not or drink or bunjee jump. Tell me those are dangerous sure.
What value does Apple add as a forced intermediary in a transaction that:
- Doesn't require their hosting
- Doesn't require their payment processing
- Doesn't require any more API usage than granted through the terms they wrote and that the developer pays year after year
- Doesn't require their support
- Doesn't affect them in any other way?
I'd classify that as plain rent seeking.
Apple provides access to it’s customer base, games (and other apps) use it’s apis to run. Whether you like it or not, that is the value add. Plus some other things.
 
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Why do so many people on your side of the argument pretend that the only value that Apple provides developers is hosting and payment processing?
Because it’s easier than recognizing that Apple has cultivated over a billion paying users and THAT’S what developers pay the commission for. That’s why developers may a commission to Steam, that’s why they pay a commission to Sony, to Nintendo, to Epic, to Roblox, to anyone that has built something that developers can use to try to get money from the customers they’ve built.
 
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I'd argue that if developers have to be on Apple's platform to be viable, then obviously Apple's platform is providing value to developers. If Apple's platform didn't provide value to developers, then they wouldn't care that Apple charges them a commission - they would just not develop for Apple if the commission bothered them.

When there are only two platforms (which is effectively the case), many Devs have no choice but to develop for both and tolerate whatever the situation is.

That isn't really as much about Apple & Google providing value as much as it's about a business having no choice but to frequent the only two places the customers are. (Again, not true of all businesses)

It's conflicting for sure.

If there were like 6 platforms with a nice distribution, it'd be easier for me to see and support folks going where the most value is being provided. Right now I see Devs mostly going to where they have no choice but to go.
 
What value does Apple add as a forced intermediary in a transaction that:
- Doesn't require their hosting
- Doesn't require their payment processing
- Doesn't require any more API usage than granted through the terms they wrote and that the developer pays year after year
- Doesn't require their support
- Doesn't affect them in any other way?
I'd classify that as plain rent seeking.
They provide relatively easy and seamless access to a worldwide group of over a billion users that purchase digital content. A LOT of digital content.

Don’t want to pay? 1 billion potential customers just don’t seem like it’s worth it? Don’t pay $99 to become a developer and don’t release content for the platform. EASY way to avoid rent seeking, if that’s what you want to call it.
 
I've finally accepted that a lot of folks think Apple is within its rights to do anything they want in terms of fees, restrictions, rules and terms, including only conditionally adhering to and applying them!

Once I understood that difference of opinion, it's helped me decide to just not engage much on these topics.
I know what you mean. I accepted that many believe Apple is a not for profit company and should behave like that and in no way shape or form is entitled to any fee or commission….and even the $99/year is highway robbery.

They also believe everything apple does is an antitrust action and the entirety of it’s vertical stack should be a public utility. Apple should also be broken up and it’s App Store separated and run as a public utility. Access to the NFC should be open and automatic.
 
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When there are only two platforms (which is effectively the case), many Devs have no choice but to develop for both and tolerate whatever the situation is.

That isn't really as much about Apple & Google providing value as much as it's about a business having no choice but to frequent the only two places the customers are. (Again, not true of all businesses)

It's conflicting for sure.

If there were like 6 platforms with a nice distribution, it'd be easier for me to see and support folks going where the most value is being provided. Right now I see Devs mostly going to where they have no choice but to go.
A dev can develop for windows, web apps, websites or Linux. Where is a dev only tied down to the iPhone or some android variant?

Oh wait, you mean the dev wants access to apples 1 billion customers in a highly integrated vertical ecosystem, but has to accept all that comes with it?

That sounds about right.
 
A dev can develop for windows, web apps, websites or Linux. Where is a dev only tied down to the iPhone or some android variant?
Additionally, there are BILLIONS of folks making a living right now that never have to pay Apple a commission. Software development… very specifically Apple iOS Software Development is not required for a human to make the currency needed to survive. Potential developers should weigh the benefits and disadvantages and choose the path that best suits them personally. If potentially making, say $765,000 after paying $135,000 commission on sales of $900,000 just rubs a person the wrong way… just NOT a line they can cross, then they shouldn’t be a developer for iOS.
 
When there are only two platforms (which is effectively the case), many Devs have no choice but to develop for both and tolerate whatever the situation is.

That isn't really as much about Apple & Google providing value as much as it's about a business having no choice but to frequent the only two places the customers are. (Again, not true of all businesses)

It's conflicting for sure.

If there were like 6 platforms with a nice distribution, it'd be easier for me to see and support folks going where the most value is being provided. Right now I see Devs mostly going to where they have no choice but to go.
But there is only effectively two mobile platforms because of Google, not Apple. Google is the one that entered into anticompetitive agreements with its competitors.

And if developers are only agreeing to the terms because there are only two platforms, why did the agree to worse terms when that wasn’t the case?
 
They provide relatively easy and seamless access to a worldwide group of over a billion users that purchase digital content. A LOT of digital content.

Don’t want to pay? 1 billion potential customers just don’t seem like it’s worth it? Don’t pay $99 to become a developer and don’t release content for the platform. EASY way to avoid rent seeking, if that’s what you want to call it.
Look up the definition of "mutually beneficial". Imagine if devs started leaving iOS platform because they don't like the terms (as you suggest they should do). Imagine iPhone consumers starting to complain that their favorite app is only on Android. Imagine iPhone sales declining as previous iPhone buyers move to Android. Now, ask yourself how much Apple depends on their developers to write iOS apps.
 
Those terms are applicable to devs using the App Store. We're talking about devs using their own app store, links in apps to outside sites and processing their own payments.

Try to keep up.
You're the one who brought up the developer terms by bringing up the $99 developer fee. Try to keep up with your own statements.
 
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Look up the definition of "mutually beneficial". Imagine if devs started leaving iOS platform because they don't like the terms (as you suggest they should do). Imagine iPhone consumers starting to complain that their favorite app is only on Android. Imagine iPhone sales declining as previous iPhone buyers move to Android. Now, ask yourself how much Apple depends on their developers to write iOS apps.
Imagine Apple steps in as developer. Of course there may be some antitrust implications, but Apple with its pile of cash could start a new business line.

And of course the devs who vacated the iOS App Store and are now in a competitor store that DOESN’T have the best curated customers will have to ponder their future.
 
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Look up the definition of "mutually beneficial". Imagine if devs started leaving iOS platform because they don't like the terms (as you suggest they should do). Imagine iPhone consumers starting to complain that their favorite app is only on Android. Imagine iPhone sales declining as previous iPhone buyers move to Android. Now, ask yourself how much Apple depends on their developers to write iOS apps.
Seems like the terms are already mutually beneficial since the exodus you describe isn’t happening.
 
You're the one who brought up the developer terms by bringing up the $99 developer fee. Try to keep up with your own statements.
You're wrong, again. I brought up the $99 developer fee as the reason devs have the right to the tools to write apps.
YOU brought up terms, not me.

I wrote: "Don't developers pay a developer fee to Apple to get access to tools to make apps?"

I don't see the word "terms" anywhere in there, do you? You're making stuff up to try to win a losing argument.
 
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You're wrong, again. I brought up the $99 developer fee as the reason devs have the right to the tools to write apps.
YOU brought up terms, not me.

I wrote: "Don't developers pay a developer fee to Apple to get access to tools to make apps?"

I don't see the word "terms" anywhere in there, do you? You're making stuff up to try to win a losing argument.
Sigh, no, you don’t get rights to software by paying part of the required fees. You get it by agreeing to terms and paying all the required fees.
 
Membership is $99 and here is what it provides.
It seems clearly separated from the fees on digital goods and services (2nd image)

Screenshot 2026-08-20 at 09.43.18.png





Screenshot 2026-08-20 at 09.44.26.png
 
Look up the definition of "mutually beneficial". Imagine if devs started leaving iOS platform because they don't like the terms (as you suggest they do). Imagine iPhone consumers starting to complain that their favorite app is only on Android. Imagine iPhone sales declining as previous iPhone buyers move to Android. Now, ask yourself how much Apple depends on their developers to write iOS apps.
Imagine that’s “business as usual”. Because that’s what it is. Developers could leave iOS, Users could leave iPhones and poor Apple would just have to deal with it. Their stock would tank, yadda, yadda. They’d be fine, though. Their company value is such that they could weather the storm and have an opportunity to come up with something else.

Now, flip it. If Apple decided tomorrow they just don’t want to be in the iPhone/App Store business anymore, again, their stock would tank, they’d flounder for a bit, pour money into R&D and come out with something else. OR, perhaps just coast for 5-10 years on their pile of cash. However, that developer currently making $7,500 a year on iOS? Crushed. That small company that just cleared $41,000 for the first time last month? Evaporated. That 1 in a million (billion) dev that hit on one of those ideas that will likely end up with them having their first million dollar year? Gone. Thousands upon thousands of developers affected… where only the largest would survive and all the rest would be gone overnight. $1.4 trillion in facilitated sales and transactions, >poof<

If ALL developers were united, perhaps there might be some tiny flash of something “mutually beneficial” here. As it is All devs without Apple are seriously impacted, likely no longer able to go on. Apple without all devs just has a bump in the road where they go on to the next thing.
 
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Should? Based on what? An arbitrary number?

Pretending Apple provides “not much” value to developers is just a weirdly undermining position.


The iOS platform, services, development tools, and APIs, as well as the continued investment in improving them all.
> iOS platform
Paid for and licensed by end users, and licensed by developers through the ADP contract
> services, development tools, and APIs
Licensed by developers, as above
> continued investment
Paid for and licensed by both end users and developers (who are also end users), and also in Apple's best interest.

> Should? Based on what? An arbitrary number?
Based on the fact that they tout the entry fee as access and license to all developer tools, it's either rent seeking or greed.
 
Simultaneously arguing that “Apple provides no value to developers” and at the same time “Developers have to be on Apple’s platform otherwise they can’t make enough money to survive” is absolutely wild.
Yes, admittedly I phrased it wrong in my original message. What *additional value* other than that I've mentioned earlier is so essential that Apple has to go out of their way to seek their money for?
 
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"I hate when the government cares for my life" is a wild statement to make in earnest.
While I don't agree with the commenter about some of the examples given, it is worth asking what governments need to be involved in. Do they need to regulate everything that can or might protect people's lives? For example, is it the role of governments to pass a law that people must wear helmets when riding bicycles? Or should people know the benefits of wearing helmets but have the personal responsibility to choose to wear or not wear a helmet? Or, what about requiring when riding motorcycles but not bicycles? What about ebikes? Where's the line to draw in regulations?

Or, how about this? Research has clearly demonstrated the safest level of alcohol consumption for health and societal benefit is none [1,2]. If governments cared about the lives of citizens, shouldn't alcohol be banned?

Or, if you accept the research (e.g., [3,4]) that finds minimal risk below 1-2 drinks per day, shouldn't governments ban more consumption than that if they care for people's lives?* Or should governments not ban but highly regulate and tax everything that's potentially harmful? Salt, alcohol, refined sugars, ultra-processed foods, too much water, etc.

Again, where should individuals and governments draw the line? Governments that really care about the lives of their citizens balance health and other regulation/policies with individual liberties.

1. Griswold M, Fullman N, Hawley C et al. Alcohol use and burden for 195 countries and territories, 1990–2016: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2016 The Lancet, 2018; 392, 1015-1035
2. Dai, Xiaochen, et al. "Health effects associated with alcohol consumption: a Burden of Proof study." Nature Health (2026): 1-21.
3. Zhao J, Stockwell T, Naimi T, Churchill S, Clay J, Sherk A. Association Between Daily Alcohol Intake and Risk of All-Cause Mortality: A Systematic Review and Meta-analyses. JAMA Netw Open. 2023;6(3):e236185. doi:10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2023.6185
4. George, Sinead, et al. "Alcohol Intake and Health Study: No protective effect at low levels, with mortality increasing to 1 in 25 at 14 drinks per week." Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs 87.4 (2026): 621-638.

*By the way, the U.S. banned alcohol sales for some years. It failed politically and socially but it had long-lasting benefits for reducing alcohol-related disease, death, and domestic-linked crimes and abuses.

Blocker JS Jr. Did prohibition really work? Alcohol prohibition as a public health innovation. Am J Public Health. 2006;96(2):233-243. doi:10.2105/AJPH.2005.065409
 
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The value Apple brings is the creation and maintenance of that intellectual property so that developers can make iOS apps, which in turn they make money from.
This entirely removes from the equation the developers who helped popularize the platform, and without which iOS would've never reached the level of popularity it did.
 
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Based on the fact that they tout the entry fee as access and license to all developer tools,
No, they don’t. Access requires agreement to terms which include the annual fee AND commission when applicable.

it's either rent seeking or greed.
It’s certainly not rent seeking. It’s clearly profit seeking in that they provide value in exchange for compensation. And greed is little more than loaded language in this context.
 
Yes, admittedly I phrased it wrong in my original message. What *additional value* other than that I've mentioned earlier is so essential that Apple has to go out of their way to seek their money for?

Apple is selling consumers one product, and developers another. And the fact that the product it sells developers results in a more attractive product for consumers doesn't mean that Apple should be obligated to price the developer's at cost. That'd be like saying "my local sports team charges a lot for attendance at their stadium, so they shouldn't be allowed to charge their concession vendors rent." I mean, the fact that there is good food makes attending the game more enjoyable so should sports team just let anyone who wants to come in and set up shop for free and sell to their customers without taking a fee or commission?
 
Apple is selling consumers one product, and developers another. And the fact that the product it sells developers results in a more attractive product for consumers doesn't mean that Apple should be obligated to price the developer's at cost. That'd be like saying "my local sports team charges a lot for attendance at their stadium, so they shouldn't be allowed to charge their concession vendors rent." I mean, the fact that there is good food makes attending the game more enjoyable so should sports team just let anyone who wants to come in and set up shop for free and sell to their customers without taking a fee or commission?
WE are the stadium owners. We bought the iPhone, licensed the OS, but Apple still wants to collect rent for apps we put on it. That is the correct analogy.
 
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