Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
And developers make money because Apple creates tools and intellectual property that developers use to build their apps. The reason developers want to do that is that is the platform Apple built attracts users who pay for software.

It really is simple as that.
Yoink the platform, ALL developers feel the pain. ALL developers stop releasing apps on the most profitable mobile platform, well, those developers will still feel the pain. 🙂 Folks will continue to buy iPhones, without those apps.

That’s the difference. Without those apps, Apple still has something to offer. Without the iPhone, iPhone developers have NOTHING to offer.
 
It IS the big companies in the EU that were behind pushing the regulators to have Apple make the changes.
Which big companies in the EU “were behind pushing the regulators to have Apple make” which “changes”?

The “security problem” is simply not addressed for macOS and the users (and Apple) are ok with that.
Apple might be ok with that simply because the Mac generates only ~10% of total revenues.
 
Last edited:
That has always been the problem with the whole “enemy of my enemy” stance. Eventually, you know that Apple is going to find middle ground with the EU, and Apple’s solution is not going to be exactly how you envision it (as is the case with Siri AI).
I actually wonder if there’s any middle ground to be found. The DMA closes a lot of doors to solution finding and that’s the way Vestager wanted it. I think what we’ll see is simply more and more features not offered in the EU or features only available in the two largest regions.
 
Apple does not get $6 billion from developers.

They have 60 million registered developers, but they absolutely do not have 60 million paid developers.
My bad. I thought registered devs were paid devs. After obtaining the 60 million info, I searched for registration benefits and got the result below. I assumed Apple wouldn’t provide all that for free.

1787639167320.png
 
It IS the big companies in the EU that were behind pushing the regulators to have Apple make the changes.
Which big companies in the EU “were behind pushing the regulators to have Apple make” which “changes”?
Paste your text above in Google and you’ll have your answer!
I thought it was MR policy to back up claims with sources, but I may be wrong.

It is not really my text, so I pasted your original line as a search term as follows: “[Which ARE] the big companies in the EU that were behind pushing [EU] regulators to have Apple make [the] changes?” I checked the top 4 sources (see below) returned by the search, none of which provides evidence for the assertion you made.

Yes, I have my answer now.
Thanks for your friendly advice on how to find it. 😊

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

1787642343174.jpeg
 
Last edited:
My bad. I thought registered devs were paid devs. After obtaining the 60 million info, I searched for registration benefits and got the result below. I assumed Apple wouldn’t provide all that for free.

View attachment 2655510
That AI summary is wrong. This site does a good job of explaining the difference.


For most people building their first app, the free tier is enough until you are ready to actually ship to customers. You can iterate on a real device, show it to your friends, and learn the platform without spending a dollar.

Which big companies in the EU “were behind pushing the regulators to have Apple make” which “changes”?

Maybe the one EU consumer tech giant? You know the one whose market the EU decided was magically the only one that didn’t require regulation, despite having almost 60% of the market and more than twice the marketshare of its nearest competitor? The one that even though it meets all criteria to have the law apply, the law will never apply to it because the EU specifically excluded its market from being subject to the law? That one.

Further reading:

Start at “taking on Apple”. Emphasis mine:

Spotify sensed an opening and began engaging with Vestager and her team. Emboldened by its successful 2018 IPO, the company felt ready to take on Apple directly. It assembled the necessary data, and, in March 2019, filed a formal antitrust complaint. A year later, the Commission opened an official investigation. Spotify leaned in with a public campaign “Time to play fair.
 
Maybe the one EU consumer tech giant? You know the one whose market the EU decided was magically the only one that didn’t require regulation, despite having almost 60% of the market and more than twice the marketshare of its nearest competitor? The one that even though it meets all criteria to have the law apply, the law will never apply to it because the EU specifically excluded its market from being subject to the law? That one.
Tech giant 😂.

Revenue 2025

Spotify: ~20B USD
Apple: ~416 USD
Google: ~400B USD

YouTube alone makes three times more money than Spotify by the way. So yeah, maybe there are good reasons why Spotify was not deemed to be in a dominant position in its market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
Tech giant 😂.

Revenue 2025

Spotify: ~20B USD
Apple: ~416 USD
Google: ~400B USD

YouTube alone makes three times more money than Spotify by the way. So yeah, maybe there are good reasons why Spotify was not deemed to be in a dominant position in its market.
But it does in fact meet the criteria written into the law!

  • Significant impact on internal market: Either €7.5 billion annual EU turnover for 3 years OR €75 billion market cap
    • Spotify's 2025 market cap: $130B, 2024's: $92B
  • Important gateway: 45 million monthly active EU users AND 10,000 yearly active business users
    • Spotify has approximately 181-182 million monthly active users in Europe
    • There are over 11 million artists and creators (i.e., business users) on the Spotify platform
Just excluded due to good ol’ fashioned protectionism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube and I7guy
But it does in fact meet the criteria written into the law!

  • Significant impact on internal market: Either €7.5 billion annual EU turnover for 3 years OR €75 billion market cap
    • Spotify's 2025 market cap: $130B, 2024's: $92B
  • Important gateway: 45 million monthly active EU users AND 10,000 yearly active business users
    • Spotify has approximately 181-182 million monthly active users in Europe
    • There are over 11 million artists and creators (i.e., business users) on the Spotify platform
Just excluded due to good ol’ fashioned protectionism.

The main reason Spotify wasn't identified as a gatekeeper is because it doesn't meet the "core platform service” (CPS) criteria. Even if it had, however, it also didn't meet the EU revenue threshold nor (at the time it was being accessed) the market cap threshold.

The reason Apple Music wasn't included among Apple's "gatekeeper" products/services is also because it didn't meet the CPS criteria.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MilaM
The main reasons Spotify wasn't identified as a gatekeeper is because it doesn't meet the "core platform service” (CPS) criteria. Even if it did, however, it also didn't meet the EU revenue threshold nor (at the time it was being accessed) the market cap threshold.

The reason Apple Music wasn't included among Apple's "gatekeeper" products/services is also because it doesn't meet the CPS criteria.
What specific CPS criteria are you referring to?

Saying that they didn’t use to meet the other thresholds is a pretty ridiculous argument considering that they do currently meet those thresholds. And have for more than two years.
 
You forgot to include traffic lights and stop signs at busy intersections. I think those are overreach too. I paid a premium for the horse power and acceleration speed of my car — I could zip through easily before traffic entering from left or right makes it to the intersection.
It should be self evident but maybe it isnt, laws are necessary for society to function.

Commissions and fees in the iOS app store do not meet the threshold of society collapsing. That meets the definition of shop around for the best price.
 
What specific CPS criteria are you referring to?

The DMA defines a core platform service (CPS) as being things like an operating system, app store, browser, search engine, social network, cloud service, virtual assistant, and maybe a few others. Audio/music streaming service does not fall into any of the DMA CPS categories. This is a reason why Spotify and Apple Music (and similar) are not designated as gatekeeper products/services.


Saying that they didn’t use to meet the other thresholds is a pretty ridiculous argument considering that they do currently meet those thresholds. And have for more than two years.

They still don't meet the EU revenue threshold requirements but do now (starting 2024-25) meet the market cap threshold. However, all of this is basically irrelevant since they don't fall into any of the CPS categories anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
The DMA defines a core platform service (CPS) as being things like an operating system, app store, browser, search engine, social network, cloud service, virtual assistant, and maybe a few others. Audio/music streaming service does not fall into any of the DMA CPS categories. This is why Spotify and Apple Music (and similar) are not designated as gatekeeper products/services.
That’s the whole point. The EU deliberately avoided naming audio streaming services as a CPS, despitee naming video streaming services a CPS. That was what @surferfb was claiming.

They still don't meet the EU revenue threshold requirements but do now (starting 2024-25) meet the market cap threshold.
They only need to meet one of those two, so that’s not relevant. That said 100 million EU paid users x $10 x 12 months = $12 billion in revenue. Plus ads and other revenue. So I’m not sure that’s even true.

However, all of this is basically irrelevant since they don't fall into any of the CPS categories anyway.
Seems pretty relevant considering the CPS being arbitrarily excluded despite meeting qualitative thresholds is the entire argument you are responding to.
 
Last edited:
That’s the whole point. The EU deliberately avoided naming audio streaming services as a CPS, despitee naming video streaming services a CPS. That was what @surferfb was claiming.

I was simply pointing out why Spotify is not classified as a gatekeeper despite potentially meeting other criteria. I didn't see CPS mentioned anywhere in these discussions.


They only need to meet one of those two, so that’s not relevant. That said 100 million EU paid users x $10 x 12 months = $12 billion in revenue. Plus ads and other revenue. So I’m not sure that’s even true.

Seems pretty relevant considering the CPS being arbitrarily excluded despite meeting qualitative thresholds is the entire argument you are responding to.

No. It's not relevant because Spotify doesn't fall into any of the CPS categories. If it doesn't meet the CPS criteria then the other factors can't/don't apply to it being a gatekeeper or not.

It's not relevant for the same reason Apple's huge market cap isn't relevant as to why Apple Music, TV+, News+, Fitness+, Podcasts, Books, Arcade, Maps, Pay/wallet, etc. aren't designated as gatekeeper products/services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
I was simply pointing out why Spotify is not classified as a gatekeeper despite potentially meeting other criteria. I didn't see CPS mentioned anywhere in these discussions.




No. It's not relevant because Spotify doesn't fall into any of the CPS categories. If it doesn't meet the CPS criteria then the other factors can't/don't apply to it being a gatekeeper or not.

It's not relevant for the same reason Apple's huge market cap isn't relevant as to why Apple Music, TV+, News+, Fitness+, Podcasts, Books, Arcade, Maps, Pay/wallet, etc. aren't designated as gatekeeper products/services.
Again, I just clarified the point and you are still ignoring it. The argument is that not adding audio streaming as a CPS is how the EU is protecting Spotify.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
Again, I just clarified the point and you are still ignoring it. The argument is that not adding audio streaming as a CPS is how the EU is protecting Spotify.

I'm not ignoring it. I just don't necessarily see it that way. The DMA is fundamentally about regulating "large" digital platforms/services that control major gateways (such as operating systems, app stores, search engines, browsers, etc.) between businesses and users. Unlike other "gatekeepers," Spotify does not control a comparable bottleneck.

Having said that, I don't think video sharing platforms like YouTube should be included. Maybe one of the strong defenders of the DMA can convince me. Otherwise, my argument here would be that YouTube should be removed rather than Spotify, Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, etc. should be added.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
I'm not ignoring it. I just don't necessarily see it that way.
Me: Spotify was protected by the EU from DMA regulations by its arbitrary decision to exclude audio streaming services from the CPS list.
You: Yeah, but they weren’t on the CPS list, so they don’t qualify.
Me: ??????????

The DMA is fundamentally about regulating "large" digital platforms/services that control major gateways (such as operating systems, app stores, search engines, browsers, etc.) between businesses and users. Unlike other "gatekeepers," Spotify does not control a comparable bottleneck.

Having said that, I don't think video sharing platforms like YouTube should be included. Maybe one of the strong defenders of the DMA can convince me. Otherwise, my argument here would be that YouTube should be removed rather than Spotify, Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, etc. should be added.
Spotify is quite literally a large digital platform that controls a major gateway between businesses and users that like other "gatekeepers” controls a comparable bottleneck.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you think Spotify should control access to its platform with much higher commissions (25% across the board), but Apple shouldn’t.
 
Spotify is quite literally a large digital platform that controls a major gateway between businesses and users that like other "gatekeepers” controls a comparable bottleneck.

It's a large platform but doesn't control a major gateway. Unlike platforms that control underlying operating systems, app stores, etc. through which users access various products/services, Spotify does not control those major access layers that businesses must use to reach end users.


Maybe you should ask yourself why you think Spotify should control access to its platform with much higher commissions (25% across the board), but Apple shouldn’t.

One is controlling a major broad gateway and the other isn't. Spotify "competes" for iOS users and their spending on music/podcast services, while Apple (which also offers music/podcast services), by contrast, actually controls the OS and the principal app-distribution and in-app payment infrastructure (as "gatekeeper") that all sorts of businesses must use to reach the broader and lucrative iPhone user market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
It's a large platform but doesn't control a major gateway. Unlike platforms that control underlying operating systems, app stores, etc. through which users access various products/services, Spotify does not control those major access layers that businesses must use to reach end users.




One is controlling a major broad gateway and the other isn't. Spotify "competes" for iOS users and their spending on music/podcast services, while Apple (which also offers music/podcast services), by contrast, actually controls the OS and the principal app-distribution and in-app payment infrastructure (as "gatekeeper") that all sorts of businesses must use to reach the broader and lucrative iPhone user market.
I think music artists would like to have a word with you about how they have to go through Spotify!
 
I think music artists would like to have a word with you about how they have to go through Spotify!
True, but artists have choice where they publish their music. There is no single choke point to reach listeners like there is for iOS or Android apps. You have "alternative stores" like Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, and many others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
True, but artists have choice where they publish their music. There is no single choke point to reach listeners like there is for iOS or Android apps. You have "alternative stores" like Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, and many others.
Spotify had a dominant position with commanding market share so artists have to go through Spotify.
 
Spotify had a dominant position with commanding market share so artists have to go through Spotify.
Yes, but they don't make it technically impossible to share your music in other ways and still reach the same customer. Contrast that with app publishers that want to sell their apps to iPhone users. There is only the Apple sanctioned way to sell apps on iPhones and iPads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eifelbube
Yes, but they don't make it technically impossible to share your music in other ways and still reach the same customer. Contrast that with app publishers that want to sell their apps to iPhone users. There is only the Apple sanctioned way to sell apps on iPhones and iPads.
“Developers have to be on iOS to reach the ~30% of the European market that represent iOS users, but musicians don’t have to be on Spotify to reach the ~65% of the European market that represent Spotify users” is a very interesting take.

I suspect not many musicians have the clout to get casual fans to switch streaming providers.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.