European Commission Moves Forward on Micro-USB Smartphone Charging Standard

[skunk]

... I'd still like to know why the Firewire iPod chargers won't charge a modern iPod / iPhone...

Well, since there are only 5 wires in the cable (as that is all the available connections at the USB end) they presumably have to connect them to the USB power terminals at the dock connector end, rather than the FW power terminals. In the old ones, the USB power terminals in the dock connector likewise will have no wires connected. At first they were probably undesignated spare connectors to allow for various future connection schemes.

 

[Daveoc64]

Yes, I've been using them at work for more than 10 years!

... I'd still like to know why the Firewire iPod chargers won't charge a modern iPod / iPhone...

Well, since there are only 5 wires in the cable (as that is all the available connections at the USB end) they presumably have to connect them to the USB power terminals at the dock connector end, rather than the FW power terminals. In the old ones, the USB power terminals in the dock connector likewise will have no wires connected. At first they were probably undesignated spare connectors to allow for various future connection schemes.

The Dock Connector was Apple's solution to allowing both USB connections (primarily for Windows users) and Firewire connections (primarily for Mac Users) through just one port.

The first iPod to feature the Dock Connector (The "iPod with Dock Connector" - which most people call the third generation iPod) was also the first to support USB, although it did not support USB charging (the old iPods were very inefficient and couldn't draw enough power from USB).

At this point, Apple was still including a Firewire wall charger with the iPod, so they had a cable with both USB and Firewire on it (http://support.apple.com/kb/TA47700?viewlocale=en_US).

This allowed users to plug the Firewire end into their wall charger and the USB end into their computer. That way, they could charge and sync through one cable (and into the dock - which was also included with all but one model of iPod at the time).

iPods made after that date started to use more efficient designs, and were able to charge from USB or Firewire - removing the need for Apple to include a wall charger or for the USB/Firewire combo cable.

As the vast majority of iPods were sold to consumers with a Windows PC (no Firewire), Firewire wasn't really necessary. The chip that was included to enable Firewire syncing was HUGE compared to the required chip for USB, so Apple started to drop Firewire syncing from the product line (the first iPod nano in 2005 didn't have Firewire sync support).

Apple continued to try and cut both size and costs and eventually dropped Firewire charging support from newer iPods and iPhones.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Let's all agree that smartphone consumers want smaller, thinner, lighter, more efficient, more powerful devices in the future. If the OEMs have to put a microUSB for charging, they'll likely use it for syncing as well. Hmm, now what about getting video output ... can microUSB be used for 1080p output? What about other uses for ports that consumers don't even know they want?

The problem has already been solved by some phones using microHDMI ports on them as well.
I might like to point out that Apple's iPod video out max out at 720. Compared to HDMI which I believe can go somewhere north of 1080p.

As it stands the 30 pin connection has already maxed out. A new port will be needed any how or a huge modification do the 30 pin killing off anything from working before hand.

Figured I would point that little fact out the fan boys out there.

 

[declandio]

The Dock Connector was Apple's solution to allowing both USB connections (primarily for Windows users) and Firewire connections (primarily for Mac Users) through just one port.

The first iPod to feature the Dock Connector (The "iPod with Dock Connector" - which most people call the third generation iPod) was also the first to support USB, although it did not support USB charging (the old iPods were very inefficient and couldn't draw enough power from USB).

At this point, Apple was still including a Firewire wall charger with the iPod, so they had a cable with both USB and Firewire on it (http://support.apple.com/kb/TA47700?viewlocale=en_US).

This allowed users to plug the Firewire end into their wall charger and the USB end into their computer. That way, they could charge and sync through one cable (and into the dock - which was also included with all but one model of iPod at the time).

iPods made after that date started to use more efficient designs, and were able to charge from USB or Firewire - removing the need for Apple to include a wall charger or for the USB/Firewire combo cable.

As the vast majority of iPods were sold to consumers with a Windows PC (no Firewire), Firewire wasn't really necessary. The chip that was included to enable Firewire syncing was HUGE compared to the required chip for USB, so Apple started to drop Firewire syncing from the product line (the first iPod nano in 2005 didn't have Firewire sync support).

Apple continued to try and cut both size and costs and eventually dropped Firewire charging support from newer iPods and iPhones.

Cool, thanks for the explanation!

 

[ftaok]

The problem has already been solved by some phones using microHDMI ports on them as well.
I might like to point out that Apple's iPod video out max out at 720. Compared to HDMI which I believe can go somewhere north of 1080p.

As it stands the 30 pin connection has already maxed out. A new port will be needed any how or a huge modification do the 30 pin killing off anything from working before hand.

I do know that there are some phones offering miniHDMI outputs. I'm referring to future smart phones that could utilize a single port that would handle USB syncing/charging, HDMI video output, perhaps a direct connection to an audio deck, and whatever else the engineers can dream up. The point is that by mandating a specific connection on the phone for one single purpose, they've effectively blocked out device space (interior and exterior) that could be used for other purposes.

Figured I would point that little fact out the fan boys out there.

Look, I'm not against the mandate, per se. It just seems like a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. At the very least, if they had mandated the other end of the charging cable, they would have addressed 90% of their goals without applying any block on innovation.

Alas, I don't think anyone is going to change their minds on this topic. Besides, it's gonna be a moot point in 5 years as most functions of smartphone will be going over some sort of wireless protocol ... at which point, some government body will mandate that all smartphones will need to transmit over a standard wireless protocol, probably Bluetooth 2.0

 

[sk4prez2020]

Apple shouldn't have to. Nor is it likely.

Apple should not have to brake a pattern that isn't broken. They've used the same charging port and it's been successful for a decade almost. This is ridiculousness! www.youtube.com/sk4prez2020

iPhone 4 (16 gb), Macbook Pro 15" Aluminum

 

[OllyW]

Apple should not have to brake a pattern that isn't broken. They've used the same charging port and it's been successful for a decade almost. This is ridiculousness! www.youtube.com/sk4prez2020

iPhone 4 (16 gb), Macbook Pro 15" Aluminum

Read the first post, they haven't got to change the "charging port".

 

[Nomadski]

You must be talking a lot of years as for the last 10 years at least there's only been 2 different sized Nokia chargers!

Theres been 3 Nokia connections in the last 4 years...

Apple should not have to brake a pattern that isn't broken. They've used the same charging port and it's been successful for a decade almost. This is ridiculousness! www.youtube.com/sk4prez2020

iPhone 4 (16 gb), Macbook Pro 15" Aluminum

The docking port has changed significantly over the last few years. Maybe not physically, but try charging a modern ipod on a 2+ year old sound dock. Also, you would think that being USB at one end would make it universal to all USB plugs right? Fuji worldwide adapters wouldnt charge iPhone's until the last year, as wouldnt half the car charging USB units on the market.

So the only pattern Apple has offered has been one of engineered redundancy on charging attatchments.

Bring on the standards.

The European Economic Community is now large enough to have an impact on the world economy through moves like this.

The idea behind the EU, in part, was an economic block large enough to influence world economics in the same way that 50 United States can. The US has since built on that through forming NAFTA.

The US will eventually adopt this because it's a good idea, and the benefits Europe will see will also apply to the US.

Europe has a tremendous cell phone market, it may even be large enough for manufacturers to start using this standard throughout the world because so many of their phones will now be made this way.

On a separate note I read that Heather Mills is from Tynesdale. A week ago I had never heard of the place and then all of a sudden it's showing up everywhere.

Tyneside, my good man, Tyneside. And I hope you washed your fingers after typing Heather Mills...

Sorry for triple post, cant find a delete button to integrate posts...

 

[mrochester]

Theres been 3 Nokia connections in the last 4 years...



The docking port has changed significantly over the last few years. Maybe not physically, but try charging a modern ipod on a 2+ year old sound dock. Also, you would think that being USB at one end would make it universal to all USB plugs right? Fuji worldwide adapters wouldnt charge iPhone's until the last year, as wouldnt half the car charging USB units on the market.

So the only pattern Apple has offered has been one of engineered redundancy on charging attatchments.

Bring on the standards.



Tyneside, my good man, Tyneside. And I hope you washed your fingers after typing Heather Mills...

Sorry for triple post, cant find a delete button to integrate posts...

I live on Tyneside . Nokia have had the 3mm jack, 2mm jack and some phones have micro USB. I didn't count micro USB since that's the new standard!

 

[aegisdesign]

It's a good idea because it means that a universal connection between devices should reduce waste/make it easier for consumers; various manufacturers have been taking the mickey (eg nokia) by using more than one type of charger in their line of devices. I don't see steve-o losing sleep over an extra adapter in the box that'll likely be tiny anyways. I do agree however think it's a tad tedious however the European commision are like that; eg, the requirement for the central brake light on a vehicle to be a certain distance from the number plate.

PS I'd prefer Eurocrap to the GOP.

Almost all of Nokia's phones have had micro-USB charging for the last couple of years. They may also have a 2mm jack too. You can use either.

Personally, I prefer the 2mm jack. It's more robust and there's no issue in getting it the right way up like a USB or 30pin dock connector. Being a separate connection to the data port, your phone isn't toast when the fragile dataport breaks through frequent plugging/unplugging for charging.

 

[aegisdesign]

IMO, one of the biggest secrets to Apple's success is keeping the same connector for almost a decade. The 30-pin connector can last another decade if managed right. I was told that only half of the pins are allocated and they are adding functionality to the pins as needed as technology progresses keeping backwards compatibility.

So they've not kept the same connector then????

I know we used to be able to charge an iPod Nano (gen 2 I think) from an AirportExpress but not the latest versions which is more than annoying as the kids now leave the computer on to charge an iPod. Leaving a computer on to charge an iPod is an even bigger environmental disaster than charger landfill.

I can't see how Apple providing an adaptor helps either. The point of this legislation is that you can use any phone charger. If you're out an about with your iPhone and it runs out of charge, you're going to have to have remembered the adaptor too. It'd be better if Apple just added a microUSB socket on the iPhone like every other phone manufacturer in Europe is doing.

 

[Nomadski]

So they've not kept the same connector then????

I know we used to be able to charge an iPod Nano (gen 2 I think) from an AirportExpress but not the latest versions which is more than annoying as the kids now leave the computer on to charge an iPod. Leaving a computer on to charge an iPod is an even bigger environmental disaster than charger landfill.

I can't see how Apple providing an adaptor helps either. The point of this legislation is that you can use any phone charger. If you're out an about with your iPhone and it runs out of charge, you're going to have to have remembered the adaptor too. It'd be better if Apple just added a microUSB socket on the iPhone like every other phone manufacturer in Europe is doing.

For me thats the issue, its not the legislation that is the problem, but rather we expect a rather sloppy half hearted implementation of it to simply comply, whilst making its purpose redundant.

I hope Apple put a Micro USB on the physical product, but we all know thats not going to happen really.

 

[OllyW]

Almost all of Nokia's phones have had micro-USB charging for the last couple of years. They may also have a 2mm jack too. You can use either.

It looks like all their new phones will be getting micro-USB and the 2mm jack.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/mobile-...ces-dual-charging-options-40091404/?s_cid=116

 

[CFreymarc]

Environmentalism is just socialist rhetoric to control and manipulate our lives. The sooner you realize that most of the publicized scarcity is artificial and Al Gore is thrown off the Apple board for security fraud, the better off we all will be.

So they've not kept the same connector then????

I know we used to be able to charge an iPod Nano (gen 2 I think) from an AirportExpress but not the latest versions which is more than annoying as the kids now leave the computer on to charge an iPod. Leaving a computer on to charge an iPod is an even bigger environmental disaster than charger landfill.

I can't see how Apple providing an adaptor helps either. The point of this legislation is that you can use any phone charger. If you're out an about with your iPhone and it runs out of charge, you're going to have to have remembered the adaptor too. It'd be better if Apple just added a microUSB socket on the iPhone like every other phone manufacturer in Europe is doing.

 

[CFreymarc]

If optical media is dead, as these forums would have me believe, then I must insist that it takes Apple's crappy analog video connections with it to the grave. Upgrade the dock connector, Apple! And I don't mean mini display port capability.

If they do it will be backwards compatible so all the automotive aftermarket still works. My take is that the unallocated pins in the current 30-pin connector will be replaced by optical fiber tips. Mark my word.

 

[milani]

Some overzealous moderator locked a thread regarding the iPhone 5 and the likelihood that Apple uses an adaptor as opposed to a straight micro-USB solution, so hopefully my post will bump this thread up.