Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
So, you think 2% is a fair tax for a company while I personally pay close to 40%?
I never said what was fair and what wasn't fair. I don't know what Apple's deal with Ireland is - I doubt most of us do - tax's are extremely complicated - i'm not a tax accountant. What I said was Ireland decided how much in taxes they wanted from the companies doing business there. I'm sure they got other benefits besides the actual tax dollars - employment requirements, infrastructure ... The EU is now dictating what tax rates it's members must impose. They're sounding more and more like the U.S.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OtherJesus
How many other ad-hoc deals are there? And what's considered an ad-hoc deal? The Double-Irish methodology isn't an Apple exclusive, as far as I know, and it existed long before Apple.
You can get a glimpse of the allegations here.
For example, to whom does Apple owe tax? The EU? The member nations? Ireland?
To Ireland, but Ireland cannot do special deals which would be "unfair" to other companies and "unfair" with other state members. "Unfair" is obviously the key issue here, at least from the Commission's point of view.
 
who do you think will ultimately pay that increased tax rate? the consumer! Ireland had a great deal with foreign companies and got a ton of money - now - apple, and others, have no reason to be there - so they can pick up and go elsewhere - so Ireland will get screwed. tax tax tax tax tax - lets just tax everyone to death - build up our militaries and blow each other up. How much tax dollars do countries really need?
The larger a company is, the more public resources it uses: roads, police, fire depts, healthcare and social programs for all of its employees, the bureaucracy that makes the market exist and run smoothly in the first place, education for all of its employees, not to mention all of the benefits that accrue to consumers in the European Union making it possible to buy an iPhone in the first place. The bigger you are, the more tax you owe, period.

Paying 2% is a slap in the face to people who are barely making a living and pay much more than that. It's shameful, and they should throw the book at them.
 
The actual accounting behind the explanation to this situation is far more complex than some of you may realize. And there is no doubt Apple is trying to play fast and loose with tax code loop holes in the US and EU territories by moving a disproportionate amount of "reported earnings" through facilities it has only recently (in the last few years) established in Ireland.

I realize many of you pay tremendous amounts of income taxes and you may even feel that what the EU is doing will backfire but that is less likely to occur. I applaud the EU for going after them on this. They have more "collective balls" than the US congress or senate combined as those politicians have also discussed the "legality" and whether to go after Apple for these potential tax code "abuses".
 
I never said what was fair and what wasn't fair. I don't know what Apple's deal with Ireland is - I doubt most of us do - tax's are extremely complicated - i'm not a tax accountant. What I said is Ireland decided how much in taxes they wanted from the companies doing business there. I'm sure they got other benefits besides the actual tax dollars - employment requirements, infrastructure ... The EU is now dictating what tax rates it's members must impose. They're sounding more and more like the U.S.
Actually that's exactly correct: the point is that state members cannot decide how much taxes they want from a specific company unless the deal is fair with all other companies (otherwise the company receiving the special deal would effectively get an unfair competitive advantage) and fair with all other state members (you cannot try to steal business from other states by giving selective sweet deals to companies or even entire sectors).
 
And people wonder why so many countries are considering leaving the EU. Countries can't even set their own tax rates without meddling from big big brother EU. Ultimately this shakedown will be negotiated way lower than the atttention grabbing headline rate.

It is to promote fair competition, that being the small man can compete with the "big" conglomerate because he is supposedly acting in a uniform market, with uniform rates of tax and common employment rules. When Apple [and many of the others] don't act properly it distorts the market and the small man [almost always] fails. For all the ills of the EU, this is one area where it performs reasonably well.
 
world war III won't involve bombs - its going to be a war of taxes. So I assume the European union wants the U.S. to raise taxes on European companies doing business here. Who ultimately will be the ones hurt - us the consumers. Thank you EU for another of your moronic decisions. No wonder England left.

England didn't leave... the UK ( England being part of ) voted to leave, and haven't left the EU yet.
 
A very strange line of thought. What does one have to do with the other ?
If you don't have a large pile of cash to rely on if you have a slow year/quarter/whatever...you kind of have to be a bit more focused. Right now Apple isn't worried. They don't really have to worry about product flops or low demand. They have plenty of money to carry them in case of a misstep. If they loose that money...well....now we actually have to pay a bit more attention. No more fashion shows for Ive...he will actually need to design a product and not spend his days picking colors of wood for shelving in the office.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandstorm
So, you think 2% is a fair tax for a company while I personally pay close to 40%?

How did people come to conclude that anything other than a flat per-capita tax was fair? Poor and old people often require just as much in government services, if not more, why should they get away owing less in taxes?
 
Perhaps if the EU wrote it's laws better, it would not be an issue.
If they were not sure of or didn’t like the law Apple had two choices;
  1. Get it clarified by those that wrote it, do not skirt your way around it with sweetheart deals.
  2. Go back to America and deal with storing your money there under their legal system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ssgbryan
Right, because who needs the 44billion in net sales in the EU. They tried to avoid taxes, it didnt work... Now they will pay up. Make "only" 30 billion or whatever - End of story

They didn't avoid taxes. Someone gave them a cheapest price, so they went for it. They'd have been stupid not to.
 
Funny thing is on Sept 7th they're gonna start the event by patting themselves on the back as being the model of responsible global leaders. They have a zero carbon footprint, "We spray our own **** on the rice we feed the staff at FoxConn. The net we put around the building to prevent people from hitting the pavement is made out of 100% recycled material. Nothing goes to waste!".
 
The larger a company is, the more public resources it uses: roads, police, fire depts, healthcare and social programs for all of its employees, the bureaucracy that makes the market exist and run smoothly in the first place, education for all of its employees, not to mention all of the benefits that accrue to consumers in the European Union making it possible to buy an iPhone in the first place. The bigger you are, the more tax you owe, period.

Paying 2% is a slap in the face to people who are barely making a living and pay much more than that. It's shameful, and they should throw the book at them.
The only reason Apple is paying taxes in Ireland is because they are using them as their tax base. Apple has no significant manufacturing plants there, they have no huge infrastructure in Ireland - and can pick any country they want as their tax base. Both Ireland and Apple (and other companies) benefited greatly from this. Ireland will be the one hurt the most by this decision. If the tax rates there are the same as anywhere in Europe then there is no reason to use Ireland.
 
Last edited:
So, consumers should pay it instead of shareholders?

Consumers are demanding the protection money anyway aren't they? Besides, you don't really think that companies pay the corporate tax, do you? Like Walmart would enjoy 30% profit margins instead of 2-3% if we just got rid of the corporate tax? Like no competitors would come in and undercut that kind of margin, to the point where people would end up saving exactly as much as the corporation is being charged in tax?

Corporate income tax = Stealth sales tax.
 
  • Like
Reactions: swhit
in what universe did they "avoid" taxes??? Ireland isn't smart(/independent) enough to determine its own tax rate? So you support higher taxes? I sure don't - I'm taxed ENOUGH!!

No, I support everyone paying what they actually owe Like the rest of us. I dont try and come up with some random scheme in NJ so not to pay my NYC taxes. I pay them.

You think every other small company in Ireland getting a sweet 2% tax deal? You think small business owners here in the US can sell bonds instead of bringing back foreign revenue to avoid US taxes?

You complaining that you pay to much taxes and later defend sweet tax deals to multi-billion dollar companies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ssgbryan
The actual accounting behind the explanation to this situation is far more complex than some of you may realize. And there is no doubt Apple is trying to play fast and loose with tax code loop holes in the US and EU territories by moving a disproportionate amount of "reported earnings" through facilities it has only recently (in the last few years) established in Ireland.

Recently? They have been there since November 24, 1980.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jax44
The ones which are responsible are Apple and their shareholders if they are found guilty, and do you really think Apple will raise prices again by quite a bit in Europe, don't think so because more and more people think iPhones are getting too expensive in Europe, even more people will go somewhere else, read Samsung or others.

So the Irish government isn't responsible? Didn't they set the tax rate? I wonder what sort of penalty they will have to pay.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.