Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
European Commission Rules Apple Received Illegal State Aid From Ireland, Owes Billions in Back Taxes
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The irony of your post being that you implicate yourself as a potential "moron" by referring to the United Kingdom—a region comprising four distinct devolved regions (Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England)—as merely, "England". Thereby, robbing your entire post of any possible authority.
I for one am glad that the EU are tackling tax avoidance, though I'd be insane to believe that they will recoup anything like the quoted €21.1 billion.
I'd rather that €21.1 billion be in the hands of an organisation whose interests are (ostensibly) the welfare of the citizens of all the EU's constituent countries than some shareholder-focused capitalist enterprise that couldn't care less if you have shoes on your feet or clean water to drink.
If I could pay 2% tax that would be amazing. One rule for them another for us. Make them pay every last penny. I can't see why they would be able to appeal such a stupid tax rate. Flat out illegal!
You are talking about a technicality that makes their actions quasi-legal. I am talking about the underlying principle.
Corporate Tax rate is always part of the pricing decision. The back taxes probably won't be factored into their pricing, but the future tax rate certainly will.
12.5% is really not a terrible corporate tax rate. Compare it with the US corporate tax rate of 35%. I think what most people take issue with is retroactively trying to collect taxes from Apple when they had a deal with the government of Ireland. If Ireland screwed up and made a deal that was illegal under their agreement with the EU, then Ireland should pull out their checkbook.
It is a bait and switch, isn't it? Ireland, a member of the EU, allows US companies to skirt US tax laws. Then the EU declares, "no, all your tax are belong to us." I would love for Apple etc. to pay all that back tax, but to the jurisdictions that should have received it in the first place. No wonder the US Treasury is mad! If Apple was ripping me off before, the EU wants to rip me off instead.
It takes two to tango, so no to that sentiment. Apple has a whole retinue of lawyers on its books and cannot play the innocent here, considering how litigious it has been when trying to protect its interests internationally.
NO! Those taxes are on sales made outside of US. You think EU citizens should pay taxes in US, for goods sold in EU? Eh, use your brain.
You don't understand the point I was making in an earlier post. someone stated that apple should pay a larger % of taxes in Ireland because of all the infrastructure that is required to support their manufacturing efforts there. The taxes paid there are in no way related to what is manufactured in Ireland. It's a "loop hole", if you will, that the EU set up. Apple picked Ireland to base their European taxes in because of a lower rate Ireland gave them. The two aren't related. I said Apple doesn't, as a % of total world wide Apple manufacturing, manufacture a lot in Ireland - its a rounding error as compared to total manufacturing. Both Ireland and Apple benefit from this deal - Ireland gets tax dollars that they normally wouldn't and Apple gets a lower rate. I assume Ireland then turns over a % of that to the EU - i don't know how that part works.
Taxes are held by the taxing nation. The EU receives its funding on a yearly basis calculated on the wealth of each member state. The better Ireland's economy does as a whole, the higher its contributions to the EU coffers rise. There is no direct link between corporation taxes and the EU budget per se.
Ideally, a business should be mature* and accept the penalty for overt wrongdoing instead of pissing on the customers by jacking up rates, apart from the old phrase "what else is new" being thought of by millions of people at this point. But most people also know the iphone 4 (and 5, apparently) were sold despite antenna defects known to the CEO, who was prompt in blaming the customer in "holding them wrong" as the cause of the reception problems. Apple pulling that **** was bad enough to begin with... I've posted the links before and all sources were mainstream tech news outlets. Not esoteric or shrouded or requiring 3rd degree Wiccan priestess privileges to get at...
* ran by "grown-ups", for which Cook seems to be more of one than Jobs, but by how much still remains to be fully seen
Between 2002 and 2013 Apple had a 0.7 % tax rate in Australia. It's ridiculous at best.
How much money do you need to survive and what services do you support? And would you give handouts to people killing you? ("Companies are people too" and all, what are countries doing in giving tons of corporate welfare to companies that leave countries but still demand more handouts? Especially as sporadic news articles since 2006 have pointed out the US, for example, spends more in corporate welfare than in money given to the jobless (the "other" welfare and the only one people seem to hate...)
Also, see my post above, please do stop supporting corporate irresponsibility and their fleecing of us while having no ethics or responsibility or balls to be grown-ups or else people will find better role models to emulate.
[doublepost=1472507930][/doublepost]
Wouldn't be awesome if Australian citizens got that same low low rate? Of course, after infrastructure crumbles and breaks, who gets blamed? It's just lives, nothing important, right?
Yep. Not to mention a lot of 'asking' and 'could have' language
The whole thing reads, and maybe it's just the article writing, like this commission isn't a court or legal authority and this ruling is actually just their opinion not a real judgment. And in their opinion, Ireland should tell Apple that they never should have used the legal tricks they did and they should have to pay what they didn't before. Kind of like what the Us tried. And back then Tim Cool changed Congress etc to show him what laws Apple broke. When they admitted Apple didn't break any laws he told them very pointedly that if they want Apple or any company that follows the law to pay more, they need to change the laws. Which is probably how he will react here also. It will be interesting to see
Likely not. But I agree they should be. If the EU is going to take umbridge with Apple's use of laws to avoid taxes they should do it to all companies. Otherwise it's pretty clear they only did it because of Apple's size which is not cool
Was it illegal for Irelamd to offer that aid? If not then what did Apple do wrong by taking it, other than act like any business in the game of maximizing profit.
Oh please, Microsoft couldn't even dream of getting away with 1/10 of what Apple is has gotten away with.
Do you realize corporations don't pay taxes. It's customers do. There is no such thing as a cost that can't be passed on to the consumer. Your anger will come back to you in short order.
[doublepost=1472510589][/doublepost]
So paying what the government or Ireland asked you to pay is unethical? Remind me not to come play in your sandbox.
[doublepost=1472510813][/doublepost]
This is a perfect example of what led many to vote for Brexit.
[doublepost=1472510897][/doublepost]
To spread the misery.
[doublepost=1472511230][/doublepost]
And of course the EU bureaucrats are divenly ordained and have shimmering halos above their heads.