European Commission Rules Apple Received Illegal State Aid From Ireland, Owes Billions in Back Taxes

[a.gomez]

What a dishonest graphic! The Double Irish doesn't affect US taxes. And Apple doesn't pay 0.7%.

They are sending their IP, they are setting up an Irish sub, they are deduction the cost of the IP, They are setting up an international tax haven Sub, they are stashing the cash in the EU. Point is that it is not just about Ireland giving them a tax break.

Also, Once you take advantage of the off shore loop hole and/or keep the cash in foreign accounts it affects US taxes. Irish or no Irish tax break.

Why do you think they selling 30 year bonds? To raise cash? Apple has tons of cash. But if they bring home the cash this all falls apart - so they rather take on debt at 3.5% yield and not pay the US tax on repatriation.

 

[adroit]

Why can't I find this anywhere on MSM?

 

[WiseAJ]

Its time for America to flip the tables and specifically target European Companies on their taxes. See how they like it.

 

[BaldiMac]

They are sending their IP, they are setting up an Irish sub, they are deduction the cost of the IP, They are setting up an international tax haven Sub, they are stashing the cash in the EU. Point is that it is not just about Ireland giving them a tax break.

Also, Once you take advantage of the off shore loop hole and/or keep the cash in foreign accounts it affects US taxes. Irish or no Irish tax break.

Why do you think they selling 30 year bonds? To raise cash? Apple has tons of cash. But if they bring home the cash this all falls apart - so they rather take on debt at 3.5% yield and not pay the US tax on repatriation.

None of that changes what I said.

 

[cube]

Its time for America to flip the tables and specifically target European Companies on their taxes. See how they like it.

The EU has punished more European companies than American ones. You're not a victim.

 

[usarioclave]

The US Treasury note is a good intro to the issues. According to the US, the particular EU commission has indeed changed the rules...in this case the criteria by which the case is judged have changed. I'll wait for the commission's ruling to be published, but the US gives us US-based people a bit of background.

 

[cube]

The US Treasury note is a good intro to the issues. According to the US, the particular EU commission has indeed changed the rules...in this case the criteria by which the case is judged have changed. I'll wait for the commission's ruling to be published, but the US gives us US-based people a bit of background.

Biased background. They want to keep the money for themselves.

 

[Glideslope]

world war III won't involve bombs - its going to be a war of taxes. So I assume the European union wants the U.S. to raise taxes on European companies doing business here. Who ultimately will be the ones hurt - us the consumers. Thank you EU for another of your moronic decisions. No wonder England left.

Disagree. WWIII will be over Water Rights.

 

[unobtainium]

Its time for America to flip the tables and specifically target European Companies on their taxes. See how they like it.

Imagine if the US actually went after U.S. companies like Apple who move their money offshore in order to avoid U.S. taxes. Imagine rich companies getting the same level of IRS scrutiny as a mom and pop corner store.

 

[bsolar]

Unfair is that wonderful sort of amorphous term which greedy politicians can turn into whatever they need. How would you like a tax code that said - just pay whats fair? Its just trouble and lawlessness waiting to happen.

Yes, that's why I put it in quotes: under that "unfair" there are a lot of details and concepts some of which are even controversial. If you want a "non-legalese" explanation here you can find an introduction.

 

[nebo1ss]

Its time for America to flip the tables and specifically target European Companies on their taxes. See how they like it.

Actually America has been doing it for years.

Take a look at BP and all the fines they got for the oil spill. Particularly bearing in mind that the oil spill was caused by a US company hired by BP.
Take a look at all the European Banks and the hugh fines they have been subject to in the last five years. No American bank has been fined.

 

[Glideslope]

Biased background. They want to keep the money for themselves.

Right, and you show no bias.

 

[BaldiMac]

Imagine if the US actually went after U.S. companies like Apple who move their money offshore in order to avoid U.S. taxes. Imagine rich companies getting the same level of IRS scrutiny as a mom and pop corner store.

Imagine the fact that Apple doesn't move their money offshore to avoid U.S. taxes instead of your alternate reality.

Apple leaves money offshore. They don't move money offshore. Big difference.

 

[cube]

Right, and you show no bias.

I am not saying it is right to play IP games.

 

[Gudi]

Funny how it was a legal for years and now that Apple has a huge pile of cash, all these Gov't are running around trying to get their hands all over it.

It's never been legal, that's why Apple ...
Owes Billions in Back Taxes

 

[wovel]

So, consumers should pay it instead of shareholders?

Taxes are always ultimately paid by consumers.

 

[BaldiMac]

Taxes are always ultimately paid by consumers.

What a silly trope. Customers pay for the product. They don't pay the taxes.

 

[jkcerda]

So, consumers should pay it instead of shareholders?

CONSUMERS ALWAYS pay, not sure where you got the idea shareholders pay.
[doublepost=1472504981][/doublepost]

What a silly trope. Customers pay for the product. They don't pay the taxes.

you really think shareholders will NOT increase prices to offset the loss?

 

[petsk]

How is it possible that Ireland is part of EU with such tax laws. The politicians claim they will do anything to stop tax heavens, and there is Ireland right in the EU letting huge companies get away with 2% taxes.

EU is a f*kin joke, nothing less.

 

[unobtainium]

Imagine the fact that Apple doesn't move their money offshore to avoid U.S. taxes instead of your alternate reality.

Apple leaves money offshore. They don't move money offshore. Big difference.

Sure, but do they research, develop, and market their products from their HQ in the U.S.? Does all of that U.S.-based work lead to enormous profits? Is an enormous percentage of those profits stored overseas to safeguard it from U.S. taxes? Then ta-dah, they have managed to "move" U.S. wealth overseas through a loophole.

 

[Glideslope]

I am not saying it is right to play IP games.

Everyone plays games. The EU has allowed this. Now in a state of economic suffrage the EU is changing "The Game" to fund it's failed "Free Ride" policies.
Ireland should be very concerned about living under the "Brussels Commission." As well as any other EU Member. Especially Germany, without whom the EU would not exist.

Brexit was correct. It will take time for others to invoke Article 50. As things deteriorate, the pace will increase. Then the Russians will be there to assist. I look forward to that day.

 

[BaldiMac]

you really think shareholders will NOT increase prices to offset the loss?

This is basic economics here. The price that customers are willing to pay doesn't change because of the companies tax rate. Obviously, a monopoly and related arrangements are the exception to the rule. Which is why they are controlled.

 

[wovel]

now now now - link to the entire article please - 4,000 people - hardly significant - more like a rounding error.

http://www.cultofmac.com/324445/inside-apples-secretive-imac-plant-in-ireland/

There are only 4 million people in Ireland. Would you think a company employing over 300,000 people in the US is insignifcant?

 

[shk718]

YOU said they didn't manufacture anything. YOU said that 4,000 jobs is a rounding error.

Don't change your argument.

i'm not changing my argument - i'm saying they manufacture relatively little there compared to the taxes they pay.

 

[BaldiMac]

Sure, but do they research, develop, and market their products from their HQ in the U.S.? Does all of that U.S.-based work lead to enormous profits? Is an enormous percentage of those profits stored overseas to safeguard it from U.S. taxes? Then ta-dah, they have managed to "move" U.S. wealth overseas through a loophole.

Ah. You were just using the word "move" to mean something other than "move". Sorry for the misunderstanding.