European Regulators Awaiting Response From Apple After Spotify Called the App Store a Monopoly

[69Mustang]

Oh so Apple is supposed to just let someone else sell on their platform? It’s their OS. Why does another company have the right to sell on Apple platforms? And fairness isn’t a good reason.

Whether Apple has to open iOS is a question for the EU regulators. You're right though. It is their OS. ← Now, it's just me, but "It's my OS" is not the argument I would put forth. Considering MS and Google both had that "It's my OS" going for them and both ended up being handed their a$$e$ in a hat... compelling argument is not a description I'd use for that "It's my OS" sentiment. Maybe the regulators will see Apple's situation as different. Maybe not. Regardless, the point of my comment was people should stop touting overall smartphone marketshare as a determing factor. It isn't. This is all about iOS.

 

[BlandUsername]

Distribute it on Android, on MacOS, on Windows, on Linux or on Windows Mobile for a laugh.



They built and sustain the entire platform from end to end, hardware and software, in over 100 countries and languages worldwide. 30% to piggyback the platform is a bargain.



Last time I checked there are plenty of other App Stores and browsers that compete with Apple.

What are the Ios app stores you can use other than apples?

 

[BootsWalking]

Why should Apple have to do this? If you are a small developer, you can't still market your game or app on social media? You can still do all the marketing you want. You could even give the game away for free. But let's assume you want to make money without selling it through Apple. Create your own web site, market the game, let Apple distribute it free of charge. The first level plays, but when you get to the second level, it wants a code. You like the game, you buy a code to play the rest of it.

Oh, but you want that easy in-app purchase model, right? Well, then Apple is the payment processor. They created the security and process and wish to be paid for their service. Heck, they developed the whole platform with the concept of selling a platform which has the added benefit of allowing 3rd parties to share in the revolution of this new personal platform.

Like a DVD. Did you use to buy DVD movies right? Well, part of the money you paid for that movie paid for a royalty on a per disc basis. Every single copy of any movie on any DVD that was manufactured paid a royalty fee. And we do this now on Blu-ray.

Spotify needs to wake up to the fact that all they did was make an app. Apple created the platform from scratch. They created the dev tools, they created the language. They invested in making all this at huge expense. Maybe Spotify should try it. You have heard of Steam? They took Linux, and made a platform from scratch because they didn't want to be on Microsoft's XBOX. It's not so easy to do.

Apple should have to do this because their current, exclusive distribution model is blatantly anti-competitive and will be ruled as such by both the US and EU antitrust authorities and court systems. In other words they soon wont have a choice in the matter.

 

[mariusignorello]

Whether Apple has to open iOS is a question for the EU regulators. You're right though. It is their OS. ← Now, it's just me, but "It's my OS" is not the argument I would put forth. Considering MS and Google both had that "It's my OS" going for them and both ended up being handed their a$$e$ in a hat... compelling argument is not a description I'd use for that "It's my OS" sentiment. Maybe the regulators will see Apple's situation as different. Maybe not. Regardless, the point of my comment was people should stop touting overall smartphone marketshare as a determing factor. It isn't. This is all about iOS.

Yeah that’s a good point. They’ll have to find a way to argue that they control who sells on iOS in a low key way.

 

[MauiPa]

"This results in Spotify charging existing subscribers $12.99 per month for its Premium plan via the App Store just to collect nearly the $9.99 per month it charges normally". I'm pretty sure I can sign up and pay Spotify directly and only download the app from the App Store, so this is wrong, existing customers do not pay. Is Spotify somehow alleging that their customers only know about Spotify from the App Store? Not from Smart TVs, web browsers, Rokus, ...........

"Apple charging a 30 percent "tax"". I wonder how much the farmer gets for a dozen eggs when I buy them at the grocery store they are say $5. Is the difference a grocery store "tax"? According to Spotify it is.

Let's get real, Google charges the same 30% "tax" on first year purchases and 15% "tax" on on-going charges as Apple does. (and gets nothing on the free apps, including Spotify) What should it be? That is a good, but different question.

They may win, but Spotify's position is a little whiney.

• Download App for free on App Store
• subscribe to Spotify via web browser on PC, Mac, or Linux, or Roku, or smart tv, or......
• Google Play or App Store get nothing,
• dah!

 

[69Mustang]

What does Apple Muslim mean? Please elaborate

It's pretty obvious from the context that's an autocorrect error. Apple Music is what was meant.

 

[boss.king]

In the modern world, success is “offensive” and just another form of “oppression”.

Spotify is one of those social justice companies. Makes sense they don’t want to pay money. That’s a common theme amongst that crowd.

But Spotify is a very successful and incredibly valuable company. Not wanting to pay and not wanting to support a system that continues to be more and more anti-competitive are very different. This is the latter.

 

[Nomad360i]

Spotify - Stop whining!
And if I pay to use your service (which I do for now), I am your customer, not your fan.

I don’t understand why Spotify is whining, people make a choice iOS or Android. The market is saturated, there are so many places you can stream music from.

 

[MauiPa]

Apple: “we welcome competition”...but you have no other choice on how to distribute your app.
Apple: “we welcome competition”...if you pay our 30% cut so that we can still profit off of that competition
Apple: “we welcome competition”...but we don’t allow other app stores or browser downloads to compete with us

kind of inaccurate though. As a developer:

• Set your own price.
• Manage subscriptions (charge and collect money, check validity, handle cancellations, manage cash) on your own outside App Store
• Who wants external programs on iPhone (get an Android if you do)? The associated malware, security breaches, etc on android are not something I want. It is hard enough to keep developers from doing sleazy things. But you can pull them if they get caught.

 

[mariusignorello]

But Spotify is a very successful and incredibly valuable company. Not wanting to pay and not wanting to support a system that continues to be more and more anti-competitive are very different. This is the latter.

Successful...not sure if that is true or not. Aren’t they in the red?

Anti-competitive is a stretch. And if a company that hasn’t turned a profit is arguing commerce law I’d really be suspicious.

 

[code-m]

The problem is Apple forbids developers to put any link within the application. That's where it starts.

Not taking sides, I believe Apple sees this as circumventing the 30% payment processing fee, plus hosting etc. This is something that not only Spotify, however other app developers may have a case. One should not be restricted to use other payment processors to increase a companies or app developers profit margins to stay operational. I was under the impression that Apple had reduced those fees to below 30%, had this not changed.

 

[realtuner]

Whether Apple has to open iOS is a question for the EU regulators. You're right though. It is their OS. ← Now, it's just me, but "It's my OS" is not the argument I would put forth. Considering MS and Google both had that "It's my OS" going for them and both ended up being handed their a$$e$ in a hat... compelling argument is not a description I'd use for that "It's my OS" sentiment. Maybe the regulators will see Apple's situation as different. Maybe not. Regardless, the point of my comment was people should stop touting overall smartphone marketshare as a determing factor. It isn't. This is all about iOS.

You're missing the most important part (like so many people do when trying to incorrectly associate Google and Microsoft and their EU antitrust issues).

Apple doesn't license iOS to third parties. For all intents and purposes, devices running iOS are embedded systems sold as a single functioning unit. Just like your dishwasher, toaster or any other device with a processor and software.

Both Microsoft (Windows) and Google (Android) make an operating system that numerous OEMs are allowed to use. When they tried to force those OEMs into certain practices is when they got into trouble (MS with bundling IE and not allowing another browser and Google with bundling Google Play Services instead of letting OEMs bundle their own software). They were intentionally blocking third party software from OEM devices running their OS.

 

[mdnz]

"This results in Spotify charging existing subscribers $12.99 per month for its Premium plan via the App Store just to collect nearly the $9.99 per month it charges normally". I'm pretty sure I can sign up and pay Spotify directly and only download the app from the App Store, so this is wrong, existing customers do not pay.

They aren't allowed to link to or tell about that in their own app. It's against Apple's rules.

 

[code-m]

I've always had the same position on this. If Apple is hosting the content, they deserve a 30% cut. But if the content is coming from someone else (like Spotify, Netflix, Kindle books, etc) Apple shouldn't get anywhere near 30%. Give them a small fee if the people pay using their iTunes account, but give them the option to pay the service directly.

Yes, having payment options is good. Apple encourages free apps on the store and they have not made it public that it’s a problem as it promoted and encouraged the AppStore rapid adoption. If not making any % off the free apps did not bother them, I believe they are subsidizing the 30% amount the free. Plus one has to remember the $99 annual developer fee that has to be paid to Apple of one is to post their app on AppStore. Apple is still getting their cut, not sure why linking to a developers website for payment other than iTunes Cards is such a problem.

Cannot say we encourage free apps then not permit other forms of payment outside the AppStore.

 

[Tech198]

"This results in Spotify charging existing subscribers $12.99 per month for its Premium plan via the App Store just to collect nearly the $9.99 per month it charges normally."

That says it all really. Spotify wants their money, but doesn't wanna part with 30% which Apple has been doing forever anyway.

And you only see Spotify doing this. If there was an issue, there would be uproars from other companies as well

 

[Nomad360i]

What? There are literally no App stores that compete with Apple. You can only get iOS Apps from one store. That's the issue being argued.

May I suggest getting a android phone, that way everyone can have what they want from any vendor. I like Apple and iOS because it’s more secure than all the other rubbish that’s on the market. Don’t get me wrong I like Spotify over Apple Music.

 

[B4U]

Apps will have bugs no matter how they're distributed. And if recent news is any indication Apple hasn't been able to prevent abuses either.

That said, I do agree having an app approval process does provide some measure of quality control and security so here's what I propose - have a voluntary app certification program where app developers can submit their apps to Apple, which would undergo the same process as current App Store approval but allow those certified apps to be signed and distributed elsewhere. Apple could charge developers a premium for this service.

Oh, I don’t mean software bugs.
More like bugged with spyware, worms, virus and such.
The approval process makes it a walled garden is why I am sticking with iOS now.

 

[Nomad360i]

Exactly!

 

[69Mustang]

You're missing the most important part (like so many people do when trying to incorrectly associate Google and Microsoft and their EU antitrust issues).

I didn't miss anything. I clearly stated:

Maybe the regulators will see Apple's situation as different. Maybe not.

We have no idea how they will view Apple's arguments. They may see material differences between Apple, Google, and MS. Just like you do. Then again, they may not. Either way, I didn't miss anything.

Regardless, the point of my comment was people should stop touting overall smartphone marketshare as a determing factor. It isn't. This is all about iOS.

You, however, did missed the most important part: Context of the original quote and my reply. Overall smartphone marketshare doesn't matter because the claim is a monopoly on iOS. I'm not arguing the merits of the monopoly claim. Frankly, outside of intellectual curiosity, I really don't care who wins. Actually, not totally true. Which ever argument results in the best outcome for consumers is the one that I want to win.

 

[GtrDude]

No way I'm going to give up Spotify.
I've tried all four major streaming services, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Google, and for someone who listens mostly to classical music there is simply no competition.
Spotify all the way.

 

[Mike_Trivisonno]

I just want to download the Gab app and the InfoWars app but Tim Cook doesn't like them. Feelsbad.

 

[mattster16]

And I can't get FordSync on my Infiniti. Monopoly?

I can't buy Nintendo games on the Playstation Store! Monopoly?

 

[boss.king]

May I suggest getting a android phone, that way everyone can have what they want from any vendor. I like Apple and iOS because it’s more secure than all the other rubbish that’s on the market. Don’t get me wrong I like Spotify over Apple Music.

And it would be just as secure if there were alternatives to the App Store. Moreover you'd never have to use the alternative methods of buying apps. That's the thing about options, they're optional.

 

[69Mustang]

May I suggest getting a android phone, that way everyone can have what they want from any vendor. I like Apple and iOS because it’s more secure than all the other rubbish that’s on the market. Don’t get me wrong I like Spotify over Apple Music.

Please walk me through what you think my quote means. Then walk me through why you replied to it with what you did. I am genuinely confused by both the point you're trying to make and what you actually thought my comment meant.

 

[78Bandit]

It will be interesting to read Apple's response to see if the address why they think they should make a distinction between the purchase of digital items and all other goods or services. The "benefits of a free app without being free" doesn't hold water by itself. Apple allows Uber, Airbnb, VRBO, etc. to do exactly what Spotify wants to do, link to their own payment services from within the app instead of being forced to use an external website.

Amazon probably provides the best example of Apple's arbitrary distinction. Customers can purchase any physical goods, including CDs, DVDs, and books, from within the app and use Amazon's payment system to complete the transaction. However, the identical content in digital format through .mp3 albums, video streaming, or eBooks is subject to only being paid for through the Amazon.com website.