Everything I feared, and more. And some good.

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by ihatetoregister, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. ihatetoregister, Dec 18, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016

    ihatetoregister Suspended


    Sep 13, 2016
    Oslo, Norway
    I wrote here a few times, while waiting for my maxed-out 13" touchbar (3.3.ghz i7, 16GB). Mainly bitching over the unimpressive specs and crazy stupid price.

    Now I've had it, here's a quick review.

    The good :
    - Compiles my project 2.5 times faster than my 2.9Ghz i5, 8GB 13"MBP of 2016. Also cost 1.5 times the price though. Generally fast and powerful.

    - Silent

    - Beautiful, looks very solid

    The neutral:

    - It's smaller / lighter, but I only don't feel the difference at all.

    The bad:
    - The keyboard. Oh dear, that stupid keyboard. Horrible.

    - Almost got broken 2 times the first week due to the absence of magsafe (I have a dog and a toddler). Now I have to keep it unplugged almost everywhere in the house in fear.
    You will miss the magsafe.

    - Speaking of charging, this battery is crap and definitely not 10 hours.

    - When waking from sleep, external screen doesn't turn on. You need to unplug & re-plug it (checked on LG ultrafine and also at home with the adapter on another screen).

    - Speaking of adapters : This is ****ing AWFUL.
    The pain of living & looking like that, so in 2-3 years you'll be able to say "hey look I don't need adapters" to people with a PC (who probably won't need an adapter either, since they have USB-c in addition to normal ports), is way too real.

    - The adapters are expensive and crappy. The official HDMI one for instance can't do 4k @60hz, and I can't charge my phone from the integrated USB port.
    I have to use the separate USB-C to USB one... Ridiculous

    - I mean, for real, have you ever seen what a USB key on an adapter looks like ? Jesus.

    - Screen is ok but nothing impressive. At that price, 4k would have been nice. Or OLED. Or both

    - The price. a bit over 4000$ for this thing and its adapters, it's just idiotic.

    - The touchbar isn't very useful but maybe I just don't "get it".

    All in all, a disappointing product. If you can stand the horror that is Windows ( or if you can handle a Linux distrib ), just do that. I know it's my last MBP.
  2. Pootmatoot macrumors 6502a

    Nov 17, 2014
    There are guides to get a 99% working Dell XPS Hackintosh if Windows 10 bothers you (although as blasphemous as it sounds, I actually prefer the current Anniversary build over the current macOS build)
  3. ihatetoregister thread starter Suspended


    Sep 13, 2016
    Oslo, Norway
    Forgot one thing : I do not feel any difference in size or weight. Actually, my colleague said "weird, they made it heavier" ?!

    Interesting. Very interesting actually. If it's really 99% working, then it's a killer. I supposed I wouldn't take the risk of using it at work (I'm employed by a financial institution, indirectly) but for home use ...

    I have Windows and I can't like it. I can barely tolerate it.
    My only hope is that Microsoft is developing another OS, which it look s like they might be doing :)
  4. Pootmatoot macrumors 6502a

    Nov 17, 2014

    It depends what that 1% is though, and if it's critical for your usage. It's not a simple process.
  5. CaptRB macrumors 6502a


    Oct 11, 2016
    LA, California

    Nope...windows is not getting back into my life. My new tMBP with the dell monitors is a stunningly solid system for my work, easily better than the versions before it in almost every respect. Opinions will vary, but I doubt this will be your last MBP.

  6. Mildredop macrumors 68020

    Oct 14, 2013
    So you're saying only an idiot would buy one...
  7. Voley macrumors regular

    Oct 24, 2013
  8. mmomega macrumors 68030


    Dec 30, 2009
    DFW, TX
    So you're returning it right?

    I know 100% if I felt the way you did about anything I bought, that -ish would be returned so fast.
  9. thesaint024 macrumors 65816


    Nov 14, 2016
    suspension waiting room
    Haha. Good post. I'm going to put you in the "not a fan" group. Couple comments, where the f did you get that 20 hour battery life claim? The keyboard may take a day or two to grown on you. The adapter pain is initial, then it isn't. If after that it still sucks for your needs, I agree, return the hell out of it. It sounds like you knew you were going to hate it, and you confirmed it.
  10. bericsson macrumors newbie


    Jun 9, 2010
    Frankfurt, DE
  11. lambertjohn macrumors 6502a

    Jun 17, 2012
    I agree with all of this. That's why I bought last year's model at less than half the price of a 2016 model. With the money I saved, I'm headed to Hawaii for a week. Might even buy some more Apple stock to add to my portfolio!!
  12. kb3uru macrumors newbie


    Dec 9, 2016
    As you know from the other thread, Im having wake issues as well. As of today there has been no word from engineering, being a week into the request for help. The Senior Advisor I'm working with offered a run-around which, IMO isnt a very good one. He stated to keep the MBP plugged in at all times via charger when connected to there external monitor, and to set the energy save to never sleep. I don't think he realizes you ruin your battery doing this, but I wanted to let you know the response I'm getting from them, since you couldn't get anything from them. Hope this gives a little insight. My theory is that usb controller isn't waking up when the MacBook does, but thats my guess.
  13. eulslix, Dec 18, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016

    eulslix macrumors member

    Dec 4, 2016
    Most of your concerns I do understand, but they are minor issues rather than deal breakers to me. I would've understood your frustration if you'd have addressed the GPU issues, but you don't seem to be concerned with that either...

    Also, you spent 4000$ on a full specced out MBP without appreciating that this thing comes with an almost 100% P3 coverage out of the box, with contrast and delta values you're hardly gonna find on any other notebook. This is a top notch screen. 4K would've been nice indeed, but OLED is just a technology, it doesn't automatically guarantee better quality (rather better battery life).

    Also, I still don't get why people keep complaining about value using the price of a maxed out MBP. Obviously, there are diminishing returns with each upgrade, just as with pretty much everything else in life. If you want to compare value, take a MBP with a 460Pro and 512SSD, that'll be about 2800$. Still by no means cheap, but one third less of the price without loosing pretty much any of the performance.
    If you insist on spending almost 1000$ on the 2TB SSD, than you should've at least appreciated that it's by far the fastest SSD built in into any notebook as of now. If you don't have any use for that, I don't undestand why you spent the money on it instead of going for a cheaper external solution ...

    Sounds like a ragequit to me...
  14. therealseebs macrumors 65816


    Apr 14, 2010
    I have seen a lot of concerns about that remaining 1%, like "don't let the machine lock, it'll crash on any attempt to unlock". That specific one may be fixed, but...
  15. Mr. Dee macrumors 68000

    Mr. Dee

    Dec 4, 2003
    I wish when users describe Windows in disdain, they could detail the problems they are having with it.

    I have been running Windows 10 since its inception (started at the preview, build 9841). Windows today is not Windows of 1998. Windows has been a solid desktop operating system since Windows 2000 Professional. Certainly, it had its episodes with viruses during 2001 to 2005. By Windows Vista though the security, stability and reliability foundations became proven.

    When you look at fundamentals of what an operating system is supposed to do, whether its Windows, macOS or Linux, its manage your files, hardware resources, run your applications and your interaction.

    Windows runs all the top applications: Office, AutoCAD, QuickBooks, Adobe CC, iTunes and if you are an enterprise or SMB, your LOB apps. Especially today, when many are in a web browser. If you live an app all day, I don't see how the operating system in anyway should be interfering with your ability to be productive or like it.

    I basically live in Word, access files from File Explorer on OneDrive, Slack, Trello are both open in a web browser window. Outlook.com also has its own window, iTunes is there running and I can easily multi-task and switch between the apps by pointing and clicking or alt-tab.

    I really need a good excuse why Windows 10 or macOS is limiting today. Because the more I hear, I sense this is a first world problem. At the end of the day, it boils down to launching your app and use it.
  16. therealseebs macrumors 65816


    Apr 14, 2010
    My biggest objection to Windows 10 in practice is that you can't turn off a bunch of crap like Cortana by any means unless you have an Enterprise license, and you can't just go buy an Enterprise license. And I don't trust or want all that extra junk.

    The "ubuntu subsystem" stuff is interesting, although I don't think it's really ready for prime time yet. Still, it's a lot closer than I would have expected.
  17. dark_mark Suspended

    Nov 5, 2016
    And would you rather trust Siri? which by the way gets accidental taps at least 20 times per day on my touchbar. Siri is the most useless pice of c**p every invented.
  18. therealseebs macrumors 65816


    Apr 14, 2010
    So far as I can tell, I can turn Siri off, and then Siri isn't on. You can't turn off Cortana. Ever.
  19. dark_mark Suspended

    Nov 5, 2016
  20. therealseebs macrumors 65816


    Apr 14, 2010
    That predates the Anniversary Update, which removed the ability to disable Cortana in a straightforward way.


    "In the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, version 1607, Microsoft removed the on-off switch for Cortana. But the setting is still available if you know where to look."

    So apparently it CAN be turned off. The other things I found had said that you could limit its use of personal data, but not turn it off entirely. And really, you can't completely eliminate the program called "Cortana" without breaking stuff fairly badly, as that program is used for searching regardless.
  21. dark_mark Suspended

    Nov 5, 2016
    The same thing Applies to Apple music. You can't turn it off completely and just use your local library. It will always keep reminding you if you would like to sign up at least twice a month. Very annoying. In other words you can't separate "Music" app from "Apple Music" because they decided to integrate it all into one app

    And by the way you still can't completely remove any of the Apple apps in iOS. When you remove them, you are only hiding them and that's it.

    Both OSes have it's quirts you can't just pick on one feature and turn a blind eye on macOS shortcomings.
  22. BoneDaddy Suspended


    Jan 8, 2015
    I think your review is fair, but you imply a false dilemma.

    "Either this, or a windows". There is an alternative. I'd say a 15" maxed out 2014 MBPr with and upgraded PCIE, would be just as good, for half the price.

    Mine is ferocious when working on music and anyone who creates music with plugins and all of that, knows that it is taxing as hell. If it's good enough for us, it's good enough for most others.

    I will never buy anything above 2014 because I don't like the non mechanical trackpad. Then it gets even worse for me with this new one. When technology catches up, I will get a new MBPr. Meanwhile, I'll buy a spare 2014 so if I have to repair this one, I can use the clone.

    BTW, I got mine maxed out for two grand. With these new ones, people will be selling them even cheaper.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 18, 2016 ---
    Everything you're saying is wrong. With little snitch, terminal, and tweaking system files, you can do anything you want. I know, because I do it all of the time. I'm assuming you can do it on windows, if you knew how. If not, that's sad, but you definitely can on Mac OS.
  23. ihatetoregister, Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016

    ihatetoregister thread starter Suspended


    Sep 13, 2016
    Oslo, Norway
    Company paid for it. I would have NEVER bought one with my own coins.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 19, 2016 ---
    I can't. Started a new job about a month ago, it would take me way too long to catch up and give up my tools.

    I will however setup a Win/ Linux machine at home and start creating a dev setup so next time I have a choice.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 19, 2016 ---
    - obvious typo for the 20 hours :)
    - can`t return it, it's a work machine. See above, I lll be prepared for next time though.
    - had keyboard for a week now, still think it's an abomination.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 19, 2016 ---
    - I haven't experienced the GPU issues, it would be dishonest to complain about something that didn't happen to me.
    - OLED is more than just a technology. It s battery efficient, but also it's stunning. So far it looked good everywhere (amoled on S7, OR) and especially in my living room - this out compete all other TVs, no discussion.
    - I've spent 4000$ on the 13", not the 15, and that s with the adapter. 4050 exactly, I think. And that's my company which paid for it.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 19, 2016 ---
    There's a bit more to it isn't it ? The feel of Windows is frankly horrendous. The design is terrible : position of items, menus and submenus, the close button that doesn t close, the alerts and sounds and popup because program X want s to tell you it updated (only one that is that annoying is Adobe CC on Mac) .
    I mean, look at that https://cdn.lynda.com/video/431864-129-635785256617519628_338x600_thumb.jpg
    And with the task bar below, it s even uglier and more confusing.
    Also, you talk about apps, but that also the issue : There is a cost in terms of money and time when switching form macOS to Windows.
    I'd also argue the quality of devtools on macOS is /used to be (I don't know, haven t explored Windows in a while) much better. Package enabled editors, terminal, etc.

    So no, it doesn't just boils down to "launch an app".
  24. eulslix macrumors member

    Dec 4, 2016
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OLED have the disadvantage of burn in? That might be irrelevant for smart devices or TV's, were content changes constantly. When I look at my typical workflow on my MBP in FCPX however, a large portion of the screen doesn't change at all. I think stuff where only a small portion of the screen keeps getting updated might be very problematic and require a redesign of large parts of the software layer. But I don't know how bad the effects of the burn in really are to be honest.

    Also, the only potential room for improvements left are even higher contrast values, distribution of brightness, brightness itself and even small color deltas. While Rec.2020 might become relevant in the future, as of now, nobody's going to target any larger color space than P3, there simply isn't enough target audience for that. OLED isn't known for color accuracy, neither for higher brightness.
    So the only advantages left are superior brightness distribution - which is great for accuracy - and ridiculous contrast values. Of course, the latter one will lead to a much more vibrant picture, but don't forget, that this advantage is of limited use on mobile devices, as the black level is of less relevance in strong ambient light. When it comes to sunlight, the brightness of the display is the primary contributor for contrast. Despite the great efforts of Samsung with AMOLED, that's still not a strength of the OLED technology.

    However, I do agree, that for a company that claims to be the main innovator, it would've been nice for Apple to make that happen. After all, the increased accuracy paired with the superior contrast when working at office probably would've been worth a technology switch. My point is, that technology never is a one way road. There are always advantages and disadvantages to each approach.
  25. ihatetoregister thread starter Suspended


    Sep 13, 2016
    Oslo, Norway
    Not sure burn in is really a problem, it used to be on plasma but I haven't heard any issue other than that for OLED.
    One laptop already has one, and several monitors will be released in the coming months.

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