Everything I feared, and more. And some good.

[eulslix]

Oh, I didn't know Notebookcheck did an in depth review of this technology:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Display-Comparison-OLED-vs-IPS-on-Notebooks.168753.0.html

Surprisingly, battery usage isn't an advantage after all, but outdoor use seems to outshine IPS.

 

[dark_mark]

Everything you're saying is wrong. With little snitch, terminal, and tweaking system files, you can do anything you want. I know, because I do it all of the time. I'm assuming you can do it on windows, if you knew how. If not, that's sad, but you definitely can on Mac OS.

Lol, so you are saying I have to use a $35 app to block the nagging "sign up for Apple music" message?
Is that the app which is used to block pirated software to report home? No thanks.

I know how to block it, but blocking it is complicated and involves changing system host file or buying an app for $35 bucks. Yeah no. Where is "it just works"? If you have to change system files, might as well use windows 10, which doesn't require modifying host file.

 

[BoneDaddy]

Lol, so you are saying I have to use a $35 app to block the nagging "sign up for Apple music" message?
Is that the app which is used to block pirated software to report home? No thanks.

I know how to block it, but blocking it is complicated and involves changing system host file or buying an app for $35 bucks. Yeah no. Where is "it just works"? If you have to change system files, might as well use windows 10, which doesn't require modifying host file.

No, that app wasn't made for people who pirate software. The fact that you threw that out in your ignorant rebuttal, leads me to believe you DO. There are also free apps that do that and you can use terminal to do it as well, but for people like you, you should stick to the free apps.

Anyway, regardless of what I tell you, you're going to find something to complain about. It does "just work" but some want things differently and they do something about it. Others cry like babies and take no action.

We can all complain about Mac OS and Windows all the same. The difference is that Mac OS is easier because the nature of the way the code is written and the system file types used. It can be done on Windows as well, but it is more unstable.

Facts... Cry about em.

 

[dark_mark]

No, that app wasn't made for people who pirate software. The fact that you threw that out in your ignorant rebuttal, leads me to believe you DO. There are also free apps that do that and you can use terminal to do it as well, but for people like you, you should stick to the free apps.

Anyway, regardless of what I tell you, you're going to find something to complain about. It does "just work" but some want things differently and they do something about it. Others cry like babies and take no action.

We can all complain about Mac OS and Windows all the same. The difference is that Mac OS is easier because the nature of the way the code is written and the system file types used. It can be done on Windows as well, but it is more unstable.

Facts... Cry about em.

So you are prepared to go through the hoops of complicated steps and modify the SYSTEM host file in macOS to block a nagging "sign up for Apple music" message, but you are not prepared to turn off Cortana which takes only 3 clicks to disable? Hypocrisy much? You lost any credibility whatsoever.

And yes I know how to modify host file. I am software engineer and not only can I modify host file, I also know how to write an app just like Little Snith.

 

[agaskew]

No, that app wasn't made for people who pirate software. The fact that you threw that out in your ignorant rebuttal, leads me to believe you DO. There are also free apps that do that and you can use terminal to do it as well, but for people like you, you should stick to the free apps.

Anyway, regardless of what I tell you, you're going to find something to complain about. It does "just work" but some want things differently and they do something about it. Others cry like babies and take no action.

We can all complain about Mac OS and Windows all the same. The difference is that Mac OS is easier because the nature of the way the code is written and the system file types used. It can be done on Windows as well, but it is more unstable.

Facts... Cry about em.

Please, post one fact to back up any of your claims.

 

[Rafterman]

I know it's my last MBP.

Until your next one.

Admit it. Apple stuff is like crack. You will always find a reason to get it.

 

[ihatetoregister]

Until your next one.

Admit it. Apple stuff is like crack. You will always find a reason to get it.

Nope, I'm done. I joined the bandwagon in 2006, and it was the best thing ever.
yeah yeah the aesthetics, but mainly it was the stability and a the time, dev tools (I work in web programming).
My better colleagues at Yahoo were already on it and it was just much nicer.

I really don't care about sides.
And I don't pretend I'm above pettiness, either. But ultimately what matters is what works.
Also I alway had two machines : My Mac for work and most stuff, andWindows for gaming and software that didn't exist or was inferior on mac.
My Mac annoyed me on so many levels, like the piece of **** cd/dvd combo crap that was noisy and terrible.
or the 2 years to switch to USB3. Etc.

But now, this is it. I started a new job, so I couldn't possibly come and tell them "hey guys I'm switching be patient if I struggle".
But otherwise, I would have switched. Those are terrible machines, with terrible design choices, all the parts I put in "bad" at the beginning of my thread matters A LOT to me,I didn't mention the thing s which were annoying but ok (can't get 32GB of ram).
Apple has no innovation. Anything they'd do would be copied in a matter of months (and not that many), whether you talk about hi-def screens, thinness , etc.

my next computer will not be Apple, that was the final insult and I'm actually ashamed I walked in this scam -despite my colleagues warning me.

 

[Agmnu]

Keyboard is a personal opinion. I loved the keyboard when I tried it at the store. Not sure why you did not try it out before buying.
Apart from that subjective reaction, I feel the machine is really great in 'general'. It does depends what kind of work you are doing. If you knew you would not be happy with less than 32GB RAM, I am not sure why you even went for this.
If you do not care that much about weight and portability, there are a lot of more powerful machines out there.
peed has never been a problem for me on a mac. Every time people raise issues with numbers like USB3, no 32GB, skylake etc. In the end, working on a mac is a very smooth experience. I switched to mac 4 years back, and it has been wonderful. I worked on a new high-end windows machine this summer for 2 days, and wanted to destroy it (or myself). It was Windows 10, which people proclaim is an improvement. Wow.
With the super fast SSD and fast paging, limited RAM might not be that big of a deal in the new macbooks. As people keep saying, most do not need 32GB RAM. I know I do not.
Overall working on a Mac is an experience I can not get on Windows. The trackpad is super responsive. Windows machines do not even come close. Also, it works really well if you are in the Apple ecosystem. I can not imagine a life without Calendar, Mail, Contacts, Facetime and Messages. Do not forget, with Apple ecosystem we also get access to the iOS apps, some of which are integrated in macOS too.
If you really need a lot of power, you might think about getting a super portable laptop, and a powerful desktop. I mean, your company is paying after all. Anyways, I do not know about your work setting. Guess you would have put more thought in it than I am giving you credit for.

 

[Marshall73]

Nope, I'm done. I joined the bandwagon in 2006, and it was the best thing ever.
yeah yeah the aesthetics, but mainly it was the stability and a the time, dev tools (I work in web programming).
My better colleagues at Yahoo were already on it and it was just much nicer.

I really don't care about sides.
And I don't pretend I'm above pettiness, either. But ultimately what matters is what works.
Also I alway had two machines : My Mac for work and most stuff, andWindows for gaming and software that didn't exist or was inferior on mac.
My Mac annoyed me on so many levels, like the piece of **** cd/dvd combo crap that was noisy and terrible.
or the 2 years to switch to USB3. Etc.

But now, this is it. I started a new job, so I couldn't possibly come and tell them "hey guys I'm switching be patient if I struggle".
But otherwise, I would have switched. Those are terrible machines, with terrible design choices, all the parts I put in "bad" at the beginning of my thread matters A LOT to me,I didn't mention the thing s which were annoying but ok (can't get 32GB of ram).
Apple has no innovation. Anything they'd do would be copied in a matter of months (and not that many), whether you talk about hi-def screens, thinness , etc.

my next computer will not be Apple, that was the final insult and I'm actually ashamed I walked in this scam -despite my colleagues warning me.

What do you use the mbp for, and what are you running on it?

 

[ihatetoregister]

Keyboard is a personal opinion. I loved the keyboard when I tried it at the store. Not sure why you did not try it out before buying.
Apart from that subjective reaction, I feel the machine is really great in 'general'. It does depends what kind of work you are doing. If you knew you would not be happy with less than 32GB RAM, I am not sure why you even went for this.
If you do not care that much about weight and portability, there are a lot of more powerful machines out there.
peed has never been a problem for me on a mac. Every time people raise issues with numbers like USB3, no 32GB, skylake etc. In the end, working on a mac is a very smooth experience. I switched to mac 4 years back, and it has been wonderful. I worked on a new high-end windows machine this summer for 2 days, and wanted to destroy it (or myself). It was Windows 10, which people proclaim is an improvement. Wow.
With the super fast SSD and fast paging, limited RAM might not be that big of a deal in the new macbooks. As people keep saying, most do not need 32GB RAM. I know I do not.
Overall working on a Mac is an experience I can not get on Windows. The trackpad is super responsive. Windows machines do not even come close. Also, it works really well if you are in the Apple ecosystem. I can not imagine a life without Calendar, Mail, Contacts, Facetime and Messages. Do not forget, with Apple ecosystem we also get access to the iOS apps, some of which are integrated in macOS too.
If you really need a lot of power, you might think about getting a super portable laptop, and a powerful desktop. I mean, your company is paying after all. Anyways, I do not know about your work setting. Guess you would have put more thought in it than I am giving you credit for.

- I started a new job, it made little sense to order the previous iteration. Or so I thought
So I ordered the new one, right away. No Apple store here so it takes time for stores to receive the new machines, time I didn't have.

- I work with a lot less virtualization nowadays so it's not exactly like I NEED the 32GB, but for 4000$, yeah I feel it should at least be an option. I know on previous machines and job I simply couldn't have worked without 16GB

- You don't need to sell me macOS, that's the only reason I'm staying on this idiotic platform !
I've been mostly happy since 2006, but really the whole "overpriced machine with underachieving hardware" is getting old.
I know it's no point discussing with Apple fans (which is a problem because this is why the scammy behavior from apple continues), so I won't extend here, but for me it's a continuation of other issues, i.e. we were getting very expensive machine with horrible, horrible cd/dvd combo; we had USB2 for 2.5 more years while the PC world was in USB3, just because Apple wasn't done selling outdating hardware at ultra expensive price etc.

 

[maflynn]

- Almost got broken 2 times the first week due to the absence of magsafe (I have a dog and a toddler). Now I have to keep it unplugged almost everywhere in the house in fear.
You will miss the magsafe.

There are solutions on the horrizon so you can have a quick disconnect magsafe like usb interconnect. I agree, this is one removal that I absolutely hate.

 

[ihatetoregister]

There are solutions on the horrizon so you can have a quick disconnect magsafe like usb interconnect. I agree, this is one removal that I absolutely hate.

Thanks Maflynn, I'll definitely look into it once such solutions are released.

 

[therealseebs]

Keyboard is a personal opinion. I loved the keyboard when I tried it at the store. Not sure why you did not try it out before buying.

If I'd waited until I could try it out before buying, and then placed an order, I wouldn't have a machine yet. I placed an order at launch because I thought Apple wouldn't ship something that broken. It's cool, I got to return it.

 

[Hadron]

Oh, I didn't know Notebookcheck did an in depth review of this technology:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Display-Comparison-OLED-vs-IPS-on-Notebooks.168753.0.html

Surprisingly, battery usage isn't an advantage after all, but outdoor use seems to outshine IPS.

Not surprising at all, though the myth has become widespread because many tech bloggers repeat marketing claims as if they are facts.

OLED uses little power when the image is mostly dark, because it turned LEDs off. For the same reason it uses a lot more power when the image is light. Those of us who have watched phone technology have long been aware that with a largely white image an OLED uses more power than an LCD, and like many people, when I used to own a phone with an OLED display I used mainly dark themes and wallpapers because of this.

Personally I don't think I'd want OLED in a laptop display because of screen aging. My laptop screen spends a lot more time on than my phone does, and although current screens last a bit longer I remember the aging of my last OLED phone (colour shifts over time due to different colour LEDs aging at different rates). And burn-in of static elements (such as the Mac status bar) would be a concern to me - I expect my laptop to work for 4 years or more, with longer working days, so my longevity requirements for a laptop screen exceed those for a phone screen by some margin, and I'd need to be convinced that the displays were up to that.

 

[eulslix]

Not surprising at all, though the myth has become widespread because many tech bloggers repeat marketing claims as if they are facts.

OLED uses little power when the image is mostly dark, because it turned LEDs off. For the same reason it uses a lot more power when the image is light. Those of us who have watched phone technology have long been aware that with a largely white image an OLED uses more power than an LCD, and like many people, when I used to own a phone with an OLED display I used mainly dark themes and wallpapers because of this.

Personally I don't think I'd want OLED in a laptop display because of screen aging. My laptop screen spends a lot more time on than my phone does, and although current screens last a bit longer I remember the aging of my last OLED phone (colour shifts over time due to different colour LEDs aging at different rates). And burn-in of static elements (such as the Mac status bar) would be a concern to me - I expect my laptop to work for 4 years or more, with longer working days, so my longevity requirements for a laptop screen exceed those for a phone screen by some margin, and I'd need to be convinced that the displays were up to that.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

Still, the incredible black levels are really tempting. Afaik Samsung tries to counteract the aging by using different cell sizes for each of the primary color types. This way, aging should only affect the overall brightness, but avoid color shifts at the same time. Dunno how this translates to real world usage.
I'd be concerned about burn-in though. TVs/Phones and Notebooks are two completely different use cases, each with completely different Ui paradigms.

I'm still wondering whether the MacOS dark theme is a purely aesthetic choice, or a hint towards an OLED progression in the near future. As Rec.2020 will gain popularity in the future, Apple would surely profit from being the industry first implementing that standard using future OLED panels.

 

[ihatetoregister]

Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

Still, the incredible black levels are really tempting. Afaik Samsung tries to counteract the aging by using different cell sizes for each of the primary color types. This way, aging should only affect the overall brightness, but avoid color shifts at the same time. Dunno how this translates to real world usage.
I'd be concerned about burn-in though. TVs/Phones and Notebooks are two completely different use cases, each with completely different Ui paradigms.

I'm still wondering whether the MacOS dark theme is a purely aesthetic choice, or a hint towards an OLED progression in the near future. As Rec.2020 will gain popularity in the future, Apple would surely profit from being the industry first implementing that standard using future OLED panels.

Incredible black levels, incredible contrast, incredible colors.
At least for TV there are NO competition, OLED is king.

Not surprising at all, though the myth has become widespread because many tech bloggers repeat marketing claims as if they are facts.

OLED uses little power when the image is mostly dark, because it turned LEDs off. For the same reason it uses a lot more power when the image is light.

- Yeah, and many pros are mainly using the terminal so lots of black there
- I'd really like to see sources for the OLED having worst consumption than LED.
LED needs backlighting, which is a power hungry feature.
Also a quick google shows article saying the consumption is marginally better than LED screens. For instance http://www.techhive.com/article/3018446/smart-tv/oled-vs-led-theres-just-no-comparison.html

 

[ihatetoregister]

Adding one now with more details :

Awful battery life.
I have a maxed out 13" touchbar, I get 3h30 of my normal use.

Setup : one external screen, one server running python / sql ( and not doing much since I work front-end mainly ), one Node app running (Webpack), Slack, and about 30-40 tabs in browser, and Sublime text editor.

Breakdown :
- 9h15 100%
- 11h00 down to 64%
- After 1h30 hours of sleep, machine lost 4 more % (!)
- at 14h10 I'm at 10%
- At 14h23 I got the warning (5%)

 

[Agmnu]

You don't need to sell me macOS, that's the only reason I'm staying on this idiotic platform !
I've been mostly happy since 2006, but really the whole "overpriced machine with underachieving software" is getting old.
I know it's no point discussing with Apple fans (which is a problem because this is why the scammy behavior from apple continues), so I won't extend here, but for me it's a continuation of other issues, i.e. we were getting very expensive machine with horrible, horrible cd/dvd combo; we had USB2 for 2.5 more years while the PC world was in USB3, just because Apple wasn't done selling outdating hardware at ultra expensive price etc.

The quoted paragraph is pretty confusing. You are sticking with it because of the platform, but you quote "underachieving software". From what you wrote earlier, the platform is not a requirement by your workplace. However, you ordered it at launch date even though you were already not happy with their outdated hardware (the whole USB2 vs. USB3 thing). If you really believed that Mac is underachieving, you could have gone for the windows machines which are definitely more powerful than macbook, on paper.
It is not about being an Apple fan or not. It is about consistency in thought process. I am an Apple fan and I give reasons explaining what makes me like macbook even though the technical specifications for their hardware do not look good when compared to windows machines. However, you sound conflicted or confused.
Anyways, hope you get to work on a machine you like.

Technical stuff: External screen takes a lot of power because it uses graphical processing to upscale resolution. Try without using external screen and hopefully you will get a better battery life. This is not a solution or justification, just something you can use to pin-point cause of your problem, other than the macbook battery. Otherwise, may be macbook battery has issues.

30-40 tabs is a lot in Safari, and may be flash is running on some of them. You can check power drawn per app. Do you expect any laptop to get 10 hours with all of the workload you mentioned?
Please note that Apple gives the scenario for which they proclaim 10 hours.

 

[ihatetoregister]

The quoted paragraph is pretty confusing. You are sticking with it because of the platform, but you quote "underachieving software". From what you wrote earlier, the platform is not a requirement by your workplace. However, you ordered it at launch date even though you were already not happy with their outdated hardware (the whole USB2 vs. USB3 thing). If you really believed that Mac is underachieving, you could have gone for the windows machines which are definitely more powerful than macbook, on paper.
It is not about being an Apple fan or not. It is about consistency in thought process. I am an Apple fan and I give reasons explaining what makes me like macbook even though the technical specifications for their hardware do not look good when compared to windows machines. However, you sound conflicted or confused.
Anyways, hope you get to work on a machine you like.

Technical stuff: External screen takes a lot of power because it uses graphical processing to upscale resolution. Try without using external screen and hopefully you will get a better battery life. This is not a solution or justification, just something you can use to pin-point cause of your problem, other than the macbook battery. Otherwise, may be macbook battery has issues.

30-40 tabs is a lot in Safari, and may be flash is running on some of them. You can check power drawn per app. Do you expect any laptop to get 10 hours with all of the workload you mentioned?
Please note that Apple gives the scenario for which they proclaim 10 hours.

underachieving HARDWARE ! Thanks for the notice, I fixed the typo. Sorry I tend to type those things when I get a (short) break at work so sometimes I'm not careful

For the screen, yes it's true, but my feeling was that it was worse than my maxed out mbp late 2013 in the same conditions (I forgot my charger a couple of days), and after checking that the TDP is identical - 28W- in both cases, I am not surprised that the 2013 was better since the battery is 40% bigger than the 2016 one ( 72 watt/h vs 50 watt/h ).

30-40 tabs isn't that much for some of us, tabs hoarder
Again I was way more punishing on my late 2013 model, about 3 to 4 times that -yes!
Plugins are disabled by default, and ads are blocked from executing. I could use the extension The Great Suspender, but then again it doesn't change the issue here :
It's a pretty machine for hipsters who want to show off a very expensive typewriter/ tablet, not a machine for pros.

As for my expectations I think my original post in the thread tells it all. I was not necessarily expecting 10 hours of use, but 7h would have been a good deal.
3h30 is absolute bollocks, it's really bad.
If you can feel the gain in weight (180gr) and size (a centimeter here and there and half one in height) compared to the previous model, you are either a man with supernatural abilities or a very, very frail person.
Sacrificing battery for this was a terribly misguided choice.