Everything is settle down but...

[stevelam]

all of these people talking about "future proofing" generally have no idea what they're talking about.

you will 'survive' fine with 8gb of ram. and yes, thats even with photoshop cs6 usage etc. don't want to listen to me? listen to anandtech instead, who has way more credibility than anyone posting in this thread.

from: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/17

If you’re looking at 16GB purely as future-proofing, chances are you’ll run into processor (or storage) limitations before you feel held back by memory.

i've already graduated college. i actually use photoshop/illustrator/VM's all of the time. i am fully employed as a dev and designer. you want to know what my current system is?

2008 core2duo macbook with 8gb of ram, 500gb 7200rpm hd. relatively it is doing just fine but at this point i am looking to upgrade my ENTIRE machine because the bottleneck is no longer ram, but with the actual processor.

you're just STARTING college. you're not even using adobe software. you won't need the extra ram. don't listen to clueless forum people. but sure if you got the money? spend it on whatever the hell you want to.

 

[zerotiu]

all of these people talking about "future proofing" generally have no idea what they're talking about.

you will 'survive' fine with 8gb of ram. and yes, thats even with photoshop cs6 usage etc. don't want to listen to me? listen to anandtech instead, who has way more credibility than anyone posting in this thread.

from: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/17



i've already graduated college. i actually use photoshop/illustrator/VM's all of the time. i am fully employed as a dev and designer. you want to know what my current system is?

2008 core2duo macbook with 8gb of ram, 500gb 7200rpm hd. relatively it is doing just fine but at this point i am looking to upgrade my ENTIRE machine because the bottleneck is no longer ram, but with the actual processor.

you're just STARTING college. you're not even using adobe software. you won't need the extra ram. don't listen to clueless forum people. but sure if you got the money? spend it on whatever the hell you want to.

I don't agree about this ->
"you're just STARTING college. you're not even using adobe software. "

You do read OP's 1st post right? He will study about computer security and forensics. Of course he will use adobe less than you do.

The reason why I don't agree is virtual application usage. We don't know that the OP will use virtual application or not (since the OP will study computer science and security). Virtual apps require a lot of memory. Yes 8GB is enough but virtual apps usually don't require good processors but high memory.

 

[stevelam]

I don't agree about this ->
"you're just STARTING college. you're not even using adobe software. "

You do read OP's 1st post right? He will study about computer security and forensics. Of course he will use adobe less than you do.

The reason why I don't agree is virtual application usage. We don't know that the OP will use virtual application or not (since the OP will study computer science and security). Virtual apps require a lot of memory. Yes 8GB is enough but virtual apps usually don't require good processors but high memory.

and you did read his later posts right? where he mentions he MIGHT use adobe stuff later for whatever reason.

 

[zerotiu]

and you did read his later posts right? where he mentions he MIGHT use adobe stuff later for whatever reason.

Yes, that's why I replied you. If your final destination is 100kms ahead and you stop at 50kms to buy snacks, I suggest you fill your car with fuel which is enough for more than 100kms.

this is computer security we are talking about. OP at least need virtualization apps to test. Unless you can access a server all the time.

Basically I agree with you about 8gigs is enough. 16 is better and not for future proofing.

 

[gngan]

It's pretty obvious the more RAM, the more 'future proof'. The problem is no one will ever know how many RAM does future software or OS needs. All these people getting 16gb of ram because they can and it makes them feel better. Do they need it? Some yes, most no.

If I were to get a computer to use it for 3-5 years then I will get a 8gb ram. I can afford a 16gb ram but i dont need it.

 

[FluJunkie]

2008 core2duo macbook with 8gb of ram, 500gb 7200rpm hd. relatively it is doing just fine but at this point i am looking to upgrade my ENTIRE machine because the bottleneck is no longer ram, but with the actual processor.

you're just STARTING college. you're not even using adobe software. you won't need the extra ram. don't listen to clueless forum people. but sure if you got the money? spend it on whatever the hell you want to.

I have the exact same machine, and the processor is not yet the bottleneck that annoys me. It's definitely the RAM (I upgraded the HD to a 7200rpm one years ago).

Furthermore, 'adobe software' isn't the only reason one might run into a RAM ceiling, especially not when you consider the OPs stated desires to study. Mac Rumors has a persistent notion that "Pro" and "Computer intensive" applications are invariably graphical - this just isn't true. Frankly, the offhand mention of Adobe products doesn't really rate comment.

To the OP:

I'd say it depends on your situation. If you're looking more at the administrative side of computer security, 8 GB is probably fine for most of your uses. But if you're more interested in the math/CS side of security, I'd consider getting 16. Anything involving simulation, large datasets etc. is easily going to fill 8 GB, and while you'll likely have access to more powerful machines, there's something reassuring about knowing the work *can* be done on your machine if push comes to shove.

If it were me? I tend to favor making sure those parts I can't upgrade (processor, RAM in this case) are as good as I can get them out of the box. I can always pick up an external HD later, but if I find myself wishing I had more RAM, then that's it.

 

[iRyu]

I have the exact same machine, and the processor is not yet the bottleneck that annoys me. It's definitely the RAM (I upgraded the HD to a 7200rpm one years ago).

Furthermore, 'adobe software' isn't the only reason one might run into a RAM ceiling, especially not when you consider the OPs stated desires to study. Mac Rumors has a persistent notion that "Pro" and "Computer intensive" applications are invariably graphical - this just isn't true. Frankly, the offhand mention of Adobe products doesn't really rate comment.

To the OP:

I'd say it depends on your situation. If you're looking more at the administrative side of computer security, 8 GB is probably fine for most of your uses. But if you're more interested in the math/CS side of security, I'd consider getting 16. Anything involving simulation, large datasets etc. is easily going to fill 8 GB, and while you'll likely have access to more powerful machines, there's something reassuring about knowing the work *can* be done on your machine if push comes to shove.

If it were me? I tend to favor making sure those parts I can't upgrade (processor, RAM in this case) are as good as I can get them out of the box. I can always pick up an external HD later, but if I find myself wishing I had more RAM, then that's it.

So i tested my friend mbpr the other day, i find that 8gb ram running cs6 / few safari tabs/ some random application with 4gb ram left unused. But he use a application that monitor and free ram. Like when using all this task, i click the free ram button. The ram went from 4gb to 5gb unused. I wonder if such application really does help the ram space?

This few days i keep hunting for rmbp in my local reseller. Even base mbpr dont have stock, not to mention BTO. My college start in end of this month.

 

[FluJunkie]

So i tested my friend mbpr the other day, i find that 8gb ram running cs6 / few safari tabs/ some random application with 4gb ram left unused. But he use a application that monitor and free ram. Like when using all this task, i click the free ram button. The ram went from 4gb to 5gb unused. I wonder if such application really does help the ram space?

This few days i keep hunting for rmbp in my local reseller. Even base mbpr dont have stock, not to mention BTO. My college start in end of this month.

The OS keeps some things in memory beyond when they may actually be needed - a "Free RAM" utility like that forces the OS to let go of that. It does help free up RAM space, as long as you're not going to be accessing that information - if you are (which is why the OS is keeping it around in the first place) it will slow you down somewhat.

The OS will also automatically free up said space when an active process needs it. The only reason to "free" RAM like that is if you're running *very* tight on RAM and need some headroom right now.

 

[Slivortal]

So I'm going to my college end of this month. I almost pull the trigger for the base RMBP with education price but I don't if I will survive with the 8GB ram.

I'm not sure what program I will use in my college. I'm studying Computer Security and Forensics (anyone?), i'm sure i will run windows on it. Plus i will be using it for 3 to 4 years.

If I buy base RMBP/16GB ram with education price, the price will be almost same as base RMBP retail price.

If I buy base RMBP/8GB (stock) with education price, maybe I can get something else (external hdd, magic mouse etc) with the money.

help me out guys

EDIT: can you guys screen shot your ram usage and tell me what you doing on it? I can roughly know how much a 8GB ram can handle.

If you end up using as many virtual machines as I did for CS, you're going to WANT that 16GB RAM. It seems like a lot, but when you're running 2-3 machines, and you want to give each 4GB of RAM and a core, you're going to see your RAM fly away.

I'm a rising sophomore, and lack of RAM is basically why I may upgrade this summer (as well as SSD + quad-core, of course).

 

[iRyu]

If you end up using as many virtual machines as I did for CS, you're going to WANT that 16GB RAM. It seems like a lot, but when you're running 2-3 machines, and you want to give each 4GB of RAM and a core, you're going to see your RAM fly away.

I'm a rising sophomore, and lack of RAM is basically why I may upgrade this summer (as well as SSD + quad-core, of course).

I'm not sure how many VM im going to run but 8GB roughly can run how many VMs?

 

[Slivortal]

I'm not sure how many VM im going to run but 8GB roughly can run how many VMs?

Depends on how much space you want to give them. Like, you could pull off a 2-2-2-2 split between your host and 3 VMs, but with 16GB you could pull off a 4-4-4-4 split. And we all know the clear difference between 2 and 4GB of RAM. Depending on how often you use your VMs, though, you could arrange a 4-2-2 split, and do all the work you can in your host, but I'd rather have an 8-4-4 split any day. See what I'm saying?

EDIT: Right now, I have 4GB of RAM, and a 2/2 split just makes my computer run terribly (of course, this could be dual vs quad core as well). And since I'd like to run 3 VMs, the proper move would be to upgrade to 16GB so I'll virtually never need to do a 2-split again (unless I run like 7 VMs, but then I kind of deserve what I get).

 

[inlinevolvo]

You will more than likely be constrained by CPU and GPU limitations before ram. You'll be fine with 8.

 

[01mggt]

Op I know where you are coming form. My military enlistment is about to be up in Feb and I will be starting a BAS program for computer information systems. I am tired of waiting on my rmbp to come in and have considered getting just a base model so I can have it now (I am impatient as hell lol). But somehting keeps telling me that while 8gb is perfect for now, I won't be able to afford another computer till I am done with school (only my wife will be working full time). The last thing I want is to be most of the way into my schooling only to eventually start being held back by my choice of ram. the thing I keep thinking is, right now nobody sees 8gb being too little. But at the same time, nobody knows what the future holds for computers. I would much much rather spend 180 bucks extra (apple give military discount) and get the extra ram now and be safe. Call me crazy but I won't be losing sleep at night over it. I am very OCD lol.

 

[KPOM]

I'm not sure what program I will use in my college. I'm studying Computer Security and Forensics (anyone?), i'm sure i will run windows on it. Plus i will be using it for 3 to 4 years.

Note that in Forensics you'll be working with whatever PCs people are suspected to have used in committing fraud, etc. For many enterprises today, that's a Core 2 Duo-class PC running Windows XP (maybe 32-bit Vista or 7) with 2GB or 4GB of RAM. By the time you graduate, that may be an Ivy Bridge-class PC running Windows 7 with 4-8GB of RAM. Large enterprises keep computers for 3-5 years, or even longer, and they are almost always 1-2 OS releases behind the current version.

I think an 8GB system would be adequate for what you will likely be running. The rMBP is a very powerful system. But if the extra $200 makes you feel better about not running out of RAM in 4 years, go for it, as well.

 

[ixodes]

It's impossible to add the memory later, and if you have the money in you're budget; its my opinion you should future proof with a little more memory.

Windows running inside a virtual machine with VMware or Paralells would enjoy the extra memory hands down.

It seems unquestionable to me, get the memory mate

This advice is excellent. I could not agree more.

Virtualization requires more memory than stated in their published "system requirements" if one wishes to have a fast, smooth experience.

Then there's the fact that as time goes by, apps, OS improvements and upgrades are two areas that also take advantage of more memory.

Therefore there's no downside to buying more memory now. It will improve your overall computing experience quite nicely.

 

[Exponent]

Change your mindset!

So I'm going to my college end of this month.

My advice: you're going to college:
- be frugal,
- be disconnected from material things,
- be prepared to have things stolen or broken in roughhousing,
- if powerful computational resources are needed, use the school's. Tuition is through the roof as it is, so let _them_ pay for it.

This is my advice as someone who wasn't frugal, was connected to material thing, and had nice things broken or stolen in college.

Cheap laptop - yes. If your books (and ONLY if your books) are available in electronic format, then e-reader - yes. Old-school calculator - yes.

K.I.S.S. - Keep it simple, stupid! Enjoy college, and it is much more enjoyable the more carefree and focused you can be!

 

[iRyu]

My advice: you're going to college:
- be frugal,
- be disconnected from material things,
- be prepared to have things stolen or broken in roughhousing,
- if powerful computational resources are needed, use the school's. Tuition is through the roof as it is, so let _them_ pay for it.

This is my advice as someone who wasn't frugal, was connected to material thing, and had nice things broken or stolen in college.

Cheap laptop - yes. If your books (and ONLY if your books) are available in electronic format, then e-reader - yes. Old-school calculator - yes.

K.I.S.S. - Keep it simple, stupid! Enjoy college, and it is much more enjoyable the more carefree and focused you can be!

My course is mostly do on computer, isn't it easier i can do anywhere? rather than sit there and use iMac or Mac Pro in my college.

I don't think anyone will steal my laptop in school, I'm not saying im rich or what. My school is more to "upper" class level college. You can see Macs everywhere, let it be high end or low end. We have few labs full of iMac or Mac Pro. So im not concern about it. I'm more concern about outside of school.

ok so back to the point, if I don't have the need for bringing my rMBP to school. I will be bringing my iPad 3 which i will buy it together with my rMBP.
So I guess I will use more in home, I dont wanna lug a 2k+ laptop around

 

[Slivortal]

My course is mostly do on computer, isn't it easier i can do anywhere? rather than sit there and use iMac or Mac Pro in my college.

I don't think anyone will steal my laptop in school, I'm not saying im rich or what. My school is more to "upper" class level college. You can see Macs everywhere, let it be high end or low end. We have few labs full of iMac or Mac Pro. So im not concern about it. I'm more concern about outside of school.

ok so back to the point, if I don't have the need for bringing my rMBP to school. I will be bringing my iPad 3 which i will buy it together with my rMBP.
So I guess I will use more in home, I dont wanna lug a 2k+ laptop around

I honestly would recommend bringing something that runs on a full OS if you're going to college. While it may seem like it would be fine to do all your work in the lab, I've really gained a lot from having any computer I can put the final touches on my code with if the library's closed, or if I just want to stay in for the night.

Not to mention how big LaTeX is getting, and I doubt you can even run that on an iPad. Not to mention you can't access the filesystem or install any third-party program. You can't edit/run code either

Even just a netbook or something - it doesn't need to be Apple, it doesn't need to be hugely expensive, but an iPad will not do much as a computer science major. It may be fine if you just need to write a few Word docs or surf the web, but not even being able to open Word documents on your computer is a HUGE bummer.

EDIT: Also, insurance is rather cheap. You can probably get a plan that'll cover your Macbook from theft and accidentals for under $70 a year from any kind of insurance company.

EDIT2: And while I said a small computer was alright, you really want something that can run Linux well. Virtualization is a big plus but not absolutely necessary unless you delve into certain projects. But if you delve into those projects, you want to be able to virtualize pretty much at will.

My recommendation - buy insurance, bring your MBPR.

 

[Atemporal]

My course is mostly do on computer, isn't it easier i can do anywhere? rather than sit there and use iMac or Mac Pro in my college.

I don't think anyone will steal my laptop in school, I'm not saying im rich or what. My school is more to "upper" class level college. You can see Macs everywhere, let it be high end or low end. We have few labs full of iMac or Mac Pro. So im not concern about it. I'm more concern about outside of school.

ok so back to the point, if I don't have the need for bringing my rMBP to school. I will be bringing my iPad 3 which i will buy it together with my rMBP.
So I guess I will use more in home, I dont wanna lug a 2k+ laptop around

Depends on how your school is set up. My school has iMacs in every dorm and in the library, but also Dell workstations with Windows scattered here and there. Even with that, I find it more convenient to use my personal computers rather than migrate all my files to a school workstation to do my work. I'm a CS/Economics double major, for what it's worth.

Thefts will happen, regardless of school. I attend a top 20 school ranked by US News and World Report, and though there was only one report of a stolen MBP, it's still a theft. And this is a school where you can walk into a classroom and literally everyone has a Mac. There are wealthy students here (parking garage I use has quite a few Porsches and other nice cars) but there are also less fortunate people here as well.

As for tablets, from my experience: Good for taking notes or playing games in class, not so good for typing out an essay or running a lab assignment. If you don't mind doing your work at the library or a computer lab at 3 am (this will happen), then your iPad is fine. Otherwise, get a notebook or desktop.

Whether rMBP is "necessary" is subjective. It's your money. Determine what your needs are, and don't like random people on the internet dictate your actions. Personally I'm content with a 13" Air and custom built desktop, if you care for my opinion.

8/256 should be fine, build 16 if you're running multiple VMs. Processor bumps up to you. As stated by other posts, that'll be your constraining factor in the future. If storage is an issue, you can always buy an external. The only thing I personally find pointless is upgrading past 256 in storage. It's not worth the what, $500? to do so.

 

[Sir Al]

Speaking as someone who returned their rMBP in order to order the same model but with 16GB of RAM, I can tell you that 8GB will most likely be enough for you.

I don't really know you, or what you do on the computer, but unless you're running a lot of VMs that use gigabytes of RAM each, you'll be fine with 8GB for at least the next 3-5 years.

Save those $200 and buy something you need more!

 

[iRyu]

I honestly would recommend bringing something that runs on a full OS if you're going to college. While it may seem like it would be fine to do all your work in the lab, I've really gained a lot from having any computer I can put the final touches on my code with if the library's closed, or if I just want to stay in for the night.

Not to mention how big LaTeX is getting, and I doubt you can even run that on an iPad. Not to mention you can't access the filesystem or install any third-party program. You can't edit/run code either

Even just a netbook or something - it doesn't need to be Apple, it doesn't need to be hugely expensive, but an iPad will not do much as a computer science major. It may be fine if you just need to write a few Word docs or surf the web, but not even being able to open Word documents on your computer is a HUGE bummer.

EDIT: Also, insurance is rather cheap. You can probably get a plan that'll cover your Macbook from theft and accidentals for under $70 a year from any kind of insurance company.

EDIT2: And while I said a small computer was alright, you really want something that can run Linux well. Virtualization is a big plus but not absolutely necessary unless you delve into certain projects. But if you delve into those projects, you want to be able to virtualize pretty much at will.

My recommendation - buy insurance, bring your MBPR.

Nice idea. I will try find more info about my local insurance company.

Hmm, i dont want to have too much computer around me otherwise i need to migrate things and what not. Lot of hassle. I like to settle on one thing. I even think of buying a base 2011 MBA instead of ipad3 but the point is when i stay at home, i most likely wont touch the mba and i can play games on ipad3 too.

 

[Slivortal]

Nice idea. I will try find more info about my local insurance company.

Hmm, i dont want to have too much computer around me otherwise i need to migrate things and what not. Lot of hassle. I like to settle on one thing. I even think of buying a base 2011 MBA instead of ipad3 but the point is when i stay at home, i most likely wont touch the mba and i can play games on ipad3 too.

Getting insurance for your MBPR would probably be your best bet. Half the fun of getting a new computer as a CS major is being able to use it for your work. I'd look into the insurance thing, then be able to get yourself an iPad, etc.

 

[iRyu]

Depends on how your school is set up. My school has iMacs in every dorm and in the library, but also Dell workstations with Windows scattered here and there. Even with that, I find it more convenient to use my personal computers rather than migrate all my files to a school workstation to do my work. I'm a CS/Economics double major, for what it's worth.

Thefts will happen, regardless of school. I attend a top 20 school ranked by US News and World Report, and though there was only one report of a stolen MBP, it's still a theft. And this is a school where you can walk into a classroom and literally everyone has a Mac. There are wealthy students here (parking garage I use has quite a few Porsches and other nice cars) but there are also less fortunate people here as well.

As for tablets, from my experience: Good for taking notes or playing games in class, not so good for typing out an essay or running a lab assignment. If you don't mind doing your work at the library or a computer lab at 3 am (this will happen), then your iPad is fine. Otherwise, get a notebook or desktop.

Whether rMBP is "necessary" is subjective. It's your money. Determine what your needs are, and don't like random people on the internet dictate your actions. Personally I'm content with a 13" Air and custom built desktop, if you care for my opinion.

8/256 should be fine, build 16 if you're running multiple VMs. Processor bumps up to you. As stated by other posts, that'll be your constraining factor in the future. If storage is an issue, you can always buy an external. The only thing I personally find pointless is upgrading past 256 in storage. It's not worth the what, $500? to do so.

I dont mean my school have zero percent of getting stuff stolen but it just very less chance that i dont need to worry about it.

Use common sense right, Carry the rmbp with u all the time. Plus my backpack have a features that can secure on leg of the chair. Pretty cool huh

I know i can afford the classic mbp 15 but with all the ssd, ram upgrade myself will cost more than the price difference between rmbp and classic mbp. I have been waiting a more advance and better design since 2009. Thats why i hold it and buy a macmini to try out osx. I use it until today. So there is no way im going to buy classic mbp eventhou a rmbp is not necessary.