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EVGA GTX 285 Mac Edition

turtlebud said:
so i've seen two sets of benchmarks now (xlr8yourmac & barefeats) and it seems where the GTX 285 shines (and outshines the 4870) is in 3D games and is closer or lags in performance for other types of applications ......
Click to expand...

You need to be careful about this. It is also the case that the Mac version throttles back to 0.6GHz when not in 3D mode, and also lowers the memory speed even more. The Mac version has three speed states, 0.6, 0.8 and 1.48 GHz and the switching between these states behaves differently on the Mac version compared to the PC, which (despite also having the same three speeds) seems to spend more time at full speed.

So your observation might be a function of the odd power management being used in the early driver release. There are posts in on evga and Nvidia cuda forums asking Nvidia and EVGA to sort it out. I have an example of a CUDA app that runs 10 times faster on the Mac 285 once the card has been kicked into 3D mode, compared to running it from default state. The card is very fast once kicked out of "green" mode, and what we really need is explicit control of the threshold for state switching.
 
thanks for the reply. so it's possible that we may see better performance in non-gaming apps with the GTX 285 once/if the throttling issue is resolved. i just wonder if the GTX will be overkill vs. the 4870 for photo and video processing OR if it's better to get the best card that's available now because potentially in the future it'll be more fully utilized even for things that it might be overkill for today.
 
I'm also debating on whether to get the GTX 285 or the ATI 4870. This power throttling issue has me a little worried. Am I correct in saying that if I'm using a 3D app (like Maya or Cinema 4D) I'll get full power but the GC will throttle down if I switch to a less graphic intensive program? How will Photoshop CS4 behave with the GTX 285? Will it power up to it's max capacity as well, like any other 3D software?

Here is another comparison of the 285 vs. 4870:

http://www.macsonly.com/index.html#_152
 
Does iPhoto rely on the graphics card at all? If so, would there be a noticeable difference in performance from the GT120 to the GTX285?
 
3587 said:
Does iPhoto rely on the graphics card at all? If so, would there be a noticeable difference in performance from the GT120 to the GTX285?
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll see any difference at all in iPhoto.
 
next set of barefeats benchmarks are in using pro apps - it's not completed yet, as they mention there's more to come, but it's a start (and appreciated).

http://barefeats.com/nehal12.html

seems like pro apps don't see as much of an advantage (as seems to be the pattern) vs. 3D gaming, but as mentioned before, it may be due to the throttling down that people have observed so far. no aperture benchmark yet, but this is a good start.
 
turtlebud said:
next set of barefeats benchmarks are in using pro apps - it's not completed yet, as they mention there's more to come, but it's a start (and appreciated).

http://barefeats.com/nehal12.html

seems like pro apps don't see as much of an advantage (as seems to be the pattern) vs. 3D gaming, but as mentioned before, it may be due to the throttling down that people have observed so far. no aperture benchmark yet, but this is a good start.
Click to expand...

Your guess is absolutely right, this has everything to do with throttling. My testing so far shows that it is pretty aggressive.

We need a workaround/fix for this ASAP. Grrr.


- Stan
 
StanD said:
Your guess is absolutely right, this has everything to do with throttling. My testing so far shows that it is pretty aggressive.

We need a workaround/fix for this ASAP. Grrr.


- Stan
Click to expand...

DUMP THE ROM, POST IT SOMEWHERE, I'LL FIX IT.

I've made a few posts about /System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext

One could edit the /System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext/Contents/Info.plist

Code: 
<key>MacPro4,1</key>
			<dict>
				<key>Vendor10deDevice05e2</key>
				<dict>
					<key>Heuristic</key>
					<dict>
						<key>ID</key>
						<integer>0</integer>
						<key>IdleInterval</key>
						<integer>250</integer>
						<key>SensorOption</key>
						<integer>1</integer>
						<key>SensorSampleRate</key>
						<integer>4</integer>
						<key>TargetCount</key>
						<integer>5</integer>
						<key>Threshold_High</key>
						<array>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>100</integer>
						</array>
						<key>Threshold_Low</key>
						<array>
							<integer>0</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
						</array>
					</dict>
					<key>LogControl</key>
					<integer>0</integer>
					<key>control-id</key>
					<integer>18</integer>

To try and get the proper Power Maangagement, NOTE THE TEXT ABOVE

EDIT
Code: 
MacPro4,1
to match your MacPro (Lets say 3,1, if that's what you have.

EDIT
Code: 
Vendor10deDevice05e2
to match the DeviceID of your Card(Let's say 05e3)

I lay good odds this fixes the trouble, if not I'll show you some more edits in this file.

Also note:
Code: 
Vendor10deDevice05e2
is a
Code: 
 10DE.05E2* ** ** ** ** * "* ** * GT20x* *GT200* ***NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260* *

Note this kext is
Code: 
<string>100.6.5, Copyright 2008 Apple Inc. All rights reserved.</string>

So Apple is using NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 in MacPro4,1( In 10.5.7, was not in 10.5.6)

I'd say they came across this same Power issue, and fixed it like this:

Code: 
<key>MacPro3,1</key>
			<dict>
				<key>Vendor10deDevice05e3</key>
				<dict>
					<key>Heuristic</key>
					<dict>
						<key>ID</key>
						<integer>0</integer>
						<key>IdleInterval</key>
						<integer>250</integer>
						<key>SensorOption</key>
						<integer>1</integer>
						<key>SensorSampleRate</key>
						<integer>4</integer>
						<key>TargetCount</key>
						<integer>5</integer>
						<key>Threshold_High</key>
						<array>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>100</integer>
						</array>
						<key>Threshold_Low</key>
						<array>
							<integer>0</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
							<integer>87</integer>
						</array>
					</dict>
					<key>LogControl</key>
					<integer>0</integer>
					<key>control-id</key>
					<integer>18</integer>
 
You might also try taking the ROM into Nibitor (if it knows what to do with it) and adjust the speeds of the three performance tables to be more closely matched.

If Nibitor won't do it, you could look at ROM in Hexedit, I recall the three tables were listed behind strings starting with "31" "32" and "33" with older Nvidia ROMs. Using Nibitor on a regular GTX285 ROM could help identify where these tables are. Speeds are in Hex, I don't recall off top of my head if they were Endian swapped in the PC BIOS.

If use try Cuda's method, please post results. I am very curious what all that stuff is there for.

Keep in mind that fan speed and profile are probably also based on these "green" power settings. You will either need faster, louder fan more often, or expect card to have shorter life due to heat.
 
I will be trying Cuda's detailed suggestions again and also your BIOS speeds edit this weekend if nothing has turned up on EVGA/NVIDIA forums meantime. I will report back next week. Sorry to be so cautious but I saw hints on those other forums that some combination of Apple/Nvidia/EVGA had realized the problem so I want to see what they come back with before I start blundering about with rom on new card.
 
out of curiosity

for those that bought the GTX 285 (or are planning to buy), what are you using it for/what did you buy it for?
 
turtlebud said:
for those that bought the GTX 285 (or are planning to buy), what are you using it for/what did you buy it for?
Click to expand...

CUDA and OpenCL programming. Not games.

On the throttle back issue (again, sorry). Now seems it is not that specific to Mac 285. My second Mac Pro has an 8800 GT (EFI boot etc) + PC 260 loaded with netkas injector. BOTH cards are in 0.6GHz mode by default and have to be kicked into fast mode with some 3D stuff. Earlier I reported on my other Mac that with a Mac 285 and a PC 285 the Mac card defaulted to 0.6 whereas the PC stayed at 1.48 GHz. I had thought, mistakenly it now seems, that this was a Mac card specific problem.

My theory now is that the 0.6 GHz mode may be the general default speed, and the the Palit 2G card might be the odd one out in that it stays in fast mode. This sorta makes sense because that card has TWO fans and some heat tubes, so Palit might have tweaked its ROM to in fast by default because it has the cooling support to cope with it without dying an early death from overheating, or maybe there are some temp sensors that tell it to stay fast because it is running cool.
 
I re-tried Cuda's suggestion to modify the plist in

AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext

using the more detailed post he/she did yesterday and it now reads (I have an 08 Mac Pro) as the the shot below. Sadly this did not get the card to speed up in loading a Cuda app, and the first part of OpenGL benchmark remains in dog mode. I liked the logic of this idea - it really looked like some engineer had a 260 in a 09 Pro and saw there was trouble..

Over to windows for a BIOS edit now. Grrrrr.
 

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DO NOT DO A BIOS EDIT!!!!! Unless you know a lot more than me.

Just had horrible hour. Downloaded 285 ROM. Saved a copy (just as well) and edited a version with NiBiToR. Everything I tried produced a screen full of snow under OS X just after the Boot screen with the startup disk choices. Even just copying the 0.8 Ghz row to the 0.6 row did not work.

Looks like (maybe?) there is something EFI side that will fight against what is in PC BIOS side. Right now I am not completely convinced card is back in original state as although Mac side is OK PC side was doing odd things even after reflashing with original rom, though Windows did boot - fortunately - otherwise would have dead card and have to go back to 8800.

Going to do through checkover. Really thought I had ruined card for a while.

Edit: card is back to normal after all. Phew. Back to runnning a 3D app to wake up card.
 
10THzMac said:
DO NOT DO A BIOS EDIT!!!!! Unless you know a lot more than me.

Just had horrible hour. Downloaded 285 ROM. Saved a copy (just as well) and edited a version with NiBiToR. Everything I tried produced a screen full of snow under OS X just after the Boot screen with the startup disk choices. Even just copying the 0.8 Ghz row to the 0.6 row did not work.

Looks like (maybe?) there is something EFI side that will fight against what is in PC BIOS side. Right now I am not completely convinced card is back in original state as although Mac side is OK PC side was doing odd things even after reflashing with original rom, though Windows did boot - fortunately - otherwise would have dead card and have to go back to 8800.

Going to do through checkover. Really thought I had ruined card for a while.

Edit: card is back to normal after all. Phew. Back to runnning a 3D app to wake up card.
Click to expand...

EVGA & NVIDIA should put you on their payroll for all the work you're doing to try and help resolve this throttling issue. :)
 
GTX 285 benchmarks under Vista (Boot Camp)

I just posted benchmarks for the GTX 285 running 3D apps under Vista 64 (Boot Camp) on the Nehalem Mac Pro:
http://barefeats.com/nehal13.html

Other cards included in the mix range from the GeForce 120 GT to the Radeon HD 4870x2.
 
irishgrizzly said:
Has anyone got delivery of the 285 from OWC?
Click to expand...

Mine arrived in UK several days ago, no problem. It was shipped around the time their clock of "days to go" hit zero. Had to pay the duty after all so only saved a few quid by the import.

On OpenCL - I have not updated my SL side and program tools for a while, but the 285 was working fine and also both the PC and Mac 285 are being recognized under early windows opencl tools.
 
Dose anyone have this card working with the stock Radeon 2600?

Hey, I am in a toss-up between the Radeon 4870 and this card. The reason I am is primarily cost but also I already have two 2600's driving three screens.

I do use Vista but am slowly getting away from using that OS as intensely as I do most of my CG app stuff (which makes use of the screen real estate) in OSX. I am wanting to give my 2008 Quad 2.8 as much life as it can take in terms of it's graphics performance so I am thinking that the 285 can drive my two 22" monitors while the 2600 can drive my lesser used 20"

I believe that the two cards 285 and 2600 Nvidia/ATI will work fine in OSX but not in Windows.

If this is indeed the case, how will I be able to chose which card will be the master in Windows if the OS can't run both at the same time.

In addition, would there be any adverse effects to the Motherboard or one or both Video Cards (such as the GPU fan running high) in Vista? :confused:
 
barefeats said:
I just posted benchmarks for the GTX 285 running 3D apps under Vista 64 (Boot Camp) on the Nehalem Mac Pro:
http://barefeats.com/nehal13.html

Other cards included in the mix range from the GeForce 120 GT to the Radeon HD 4870x2.
Click to expand...

Nice work, shows the R4xxx does not have a chance GPU vs GPU, but it also shows how far the NVDA,NVMac Drivers need to come.

I say once more, if you PAID for a MAC EVGA 285GTX, Call them, email them, fly over, TP their house, knocked up their..........., do what ever you have to do, to get what you PAID FOR!!!:(
 
Cuda said:
I say once more, if you PAID for a MAC EVGA 285GTX, Call them, email them, fly over, TP their house, knocked up their..........., do what ever you have to do, to get what you PAID FOR!!!:(
Click to expand...

A few months ago I was grateful to get 112 cores up on my 8800, capable of single precision. Now I have 480 up capable of double precision. I have run out of ideas on the default lethargy of the Mac 285 under 10.5.7, but at least I know how to stir it, and it goes at full tilt under bootcamp. I am really very pleased with the Mac card and ecstatic about netkas' injector, so cannot be too angry. For CUDA work it seems that using PC cards as co-processors and running the monitor off another low end card may be optimal - you can get 2G versions as well and the 285 I have do not throttle back under OS X. Strangely on my other Pro with 8800 + PC 260 both cards are at 0.6GHz by default under OS X, so I am pretty sure it is a driver problem, so hopefully fixable in software.
 
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