Exclusive: Apple's Tile Competitor Will Include 'Items' Tab in iOS 13's Find My App and Much More

[BuddyTronic]

Unless it was made to be able to draw energy from some chemical gradient that exists in the interstitial fluid, or extract energy using "artificial mitochondria" of some kind.

RFID tags are used for pet cats, and my guy at the office implanted a small one between his fingers (metacarpals 3-4) years ago. He uses it for many things - doors etc. It’s a passive radio, taking energy of the radio waves and then broadcasting a signal. RFID is used a lot in retail too.

 

[Abazigal]

Considering how Apple has been conditioning us to leave Bluetooth on 24/7 (since the days of airdrop), I believe any battery drain due to this feature will be negligible.

 

[BuddyTronic]

My guess would be there are two use cases - 1) you lose your iPhone on the subway. There are lots of people, no doubt many with Tile, so Tile will find it - assuming no one steals it first. 2) You leave your iPhone outside where you were gardening yesterday. Tile's probably not going to find that, unless you happen to be in BT or Wifi range.
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That has Black Mirror written all over it. (I'm guessing it's already been done - I know there the MacGuffin was a "see what another person's sees" device.)

The problem I had was a Murphy’s Law type issue - I guess the third use case is your batteries go dead after one or two months on the tile or TrackR device, and then at that time you lose your item. No doubt, the Apple version will have solved the battery drain problems the others had.

 

[manu chao]

EVERY ios device will relay position data for Apple’s version.

To add some anecdotes, I know people that switch off WiFi & cellular data every time they put their iPhone down. iPhones used that way won't be as useful for tracking.
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And what if there isn't someone every 33 feet between you and your item?

To be fair, a sufficient condition would be someone passing by within 33 feet of the item, eg, at least once per day.
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Still doesn’t explain how other people would then get that information without using my data. Is Verizon really going to offer free data so an ATT customer can find their wallet?

I think Apple said during the keynote that the amount of data relayed between stranger's iPhones and eventually Apple's servers would be so small that nobody would really notice it.

 

[cmaier]

To add some anecdotes, I know people that switch off WiFi & cellular data every time they put their iPhone down. iPhones used that way won't be as useful for tracking.
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To be fair, a sufficient condition would be someone passing by within 33 feet of the item, eg, at least once per day.
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I think Apple said during the keynote that the amount of data relayed between stranger's iPhones and eventually Apple's servers would be so small that nobody would really notice it.

iPhone 11 will likely keep UWB on.

also, nobody put their phone into airplane mode every time they put it down. That’s just nonsense.

 

[manu chao]

also, nobody put their phone into airplane mode every time they put it down. That’s just nonsense.

Not Airplane mode, ‘only’ cutting off internet access (on the go: mobile data; at home: WiFi). I’ve seen it with my own eyes, there is at least one person who does this regularly.

 

[4jasontv]

I think Apple said during the keynote that the amount of data relayed between stranger's iPhones and eventually Apple's servers would be so small that nobody would really notice it.

So we are playing the game “how much change can you pickpocket before it’s an issue.” It’s only going to take one headline that reads “how to stop irresponsible people from using the data you paid for”.

 

[PickUrPoison]

So we are playing the game “how much change can you pickpocket before it’s an issue.” It’s only going to take one headline that reads “how to stop irresponsible people from using the data you paid for”.

I doubt Apple is going to predicate a new service on stealing data from its customers.

My guess is that it will be a reciprocal crowdsourcing arrangement, where if you want others to help find your devices, you agree to help find their devices. If you don’t want to participate in the service, I’d bet you’ll be able to so choose. That seems fair and reasonable, and that’s what makes sense to me.

 

[digthewell]

This is exactly what I need. This is really going to b.... Brb after I find my keys.

 

[BuddyTronic]

So we are playing the game “how much change can you pickpocket before it’s an issue.” It’s only going to take one headline that reads “how to stop irresponsible people from using the data you paid for”.

Haha. This is a bit entertaining - can you explain that headline please?

 

[H00513R]

Perfect for those who can’t be bothered to “adult”.

 

[4jasontv]

I doubt Apple is going to predicate a new service on stealing data from its customers.

My guess is that it will be a reciprocal crowdsourcing arrangement, where if you want others to help find your devices, you agree to help find their devices. If you don’t want to participate in the service, I’d bet you’ll be able to so choose. That seems fair and reasonable, and that’s what makes sense to me.

It doesn't matter. If other people can use 1 bite of your data to find their stuff than the headline fits.
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Haha. This is a bit entertaining - can you explain that headline please?

If you someone uses data you paid for for their own purposes than they are stealing from you. The amount of data doesn't really matter. 1 bite. 1 GB. The loss still exists. If I take your penny I still took your money.

 

[Abazigal]

If you someone uses data you paid for for their own purposes than they are stealing from you. The amount of data doesn't really matter. 1 bite. 1 GB. The loss still exists. If I take your penny I still took your money.

If it works anything like Tile, it won't use any of your own cellular data (except for when you use the "find my" feature).

 

[4jasontv]

If it works anything like Tile, it won't use any of your own cellular data (except for when you use the "find my" feature).

People here are trying to say you will be able to find items no matter where you are. If you are out of bluetooth range then it has to use someones data.

 

[Abazigal]

People here are trying to say you will be able to find items no matter where you are. If you are out of bluetooth range then it has to use someones data.

Not really. If it is out of bluetooth range, then my guess is that it will simply show the last location where it was within range of someone else's bluetooth device (failing which, the last location where your device last went out of range of your iPhone). Apple is likely counting on a large installed base of Apple devices in major countries like the US to ensure that no matter where you are, odds are likely that there will be someone with an apple device near you. So it will be useful in built-up areas, less so in less populated ones or countries with low iPhone adoption (like India).

 

[BuddyTronic]

People here are trying to say you will be able to find items no matter where you are. If you are out of bluetooth range then it has to use someones data.

Yes of course it uses some wireless data, but it's not using "your" data allocation - call it "Apple's data, or your cellular service providers data". This is easy for Apple to solve in a number of ways, and there has already been some mention about it using negligible amounts of data and that it would ride in the background, maybe on top of the cellular phone signal data that is used just to keep your phone number accessible. It's really best to let Apple explain it before worrying too much - particularly if you have some confusion about how it will work.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Perfect for those who can’t be bothered to “adult”.

Because adults don’t misplace things? Hmmm, I’m not sure that makes any sense.
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It doesn't matter. If other people can use 1 bite of your data to find their stuff than the headline fits.
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If you someone uses data you paid for for their own purposes than they are stealing from you. The amount of data doesn't really matter. 1 bite. 1 GB. The loss still exists. If I take your penny I still took your money.

Sometimes it’s not so much a problem with the headline as with the story itself. Is it really stealing if I freely give it to you? If I give you a dollar, have you stolen it?

You’re hung up on something that has no significance. The amount of data doesn’t matter at all. Whether I give you five dollars or just a penny isn’t actually relevant to the question of whether you’re a thief.

 

[4jasontv]

Not really. If it is out of bluetooth range, then my guess is that it will simply show the last location where it was within range of someone else's bluetooth device (failing which, the last location where your device last went out of range of your iPhone). Apple is likely counting on a large installed base of Apple devices in major countries like the US to ensure that no matter where you are, odds are likely that there will be someone with an apple device near you. So it will be useful in built-up areas, less so in less populated ones or countries with low iPhone adoption (like India).

You are contradicting yourself. Either it doesn't use other peoples data or it does.
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Yes of course it uses some wireless data, but it's not using "your" data allocation - call it "Apple's data, or your cellular service providers data". This is easy for Apple to solve in a number of ways, and there has already been some mention about it using negligible amounts of data and that it would ride in the background, maybe on top of the cellular phone signal data that is used just to keep your phone number accessible. It's really best to let Apple explain it before worrying too much - particularly if you have some confusion about how it will work.

There is no gray zone here. "Negligible amounts of data" is still a users data.
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Because adults don’t misplace things? Hmmm, I’m not sure that makes any sense.
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Sometimes it’s not so much a problem with the headline as with the story itself. Is it really stealing if I freely give it to you? If I give you a dollar, have you stolen it?

You’re hung up on something that has no significance. The amount of data doesn’t matter at all. Whether I give you five dollars or just a penny isn’t actually relevant to the question of whether you’re a thief.

It all comes down to being able to turn the feature off. If I have to let others use the feature to use it myself than it's not giving. It's blackmail. I am hung on it because it's important.

 

[Abazigal]

You are contradicting yourself. Either it doesn't use other peoples data or it does.
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There is no gray zone here. "Negligible amounts of data" is still a users data.
[doublepost=1568089777][/doublepost]

It all comes down to being able to turn the feature off. If I have to have the feature on for others to use the feature than it's not giving. I am hung on it because it's important.

I don’t see how I am contradicting myself. I am fairly confident it won’t use any of your cellular data, if that’s what you are concerned about.

 

[4jasontv]

I don’t see how I am contradicting myself. I am fairly confident it won’t use any of your cellular data, if that’s what you are concerned about.

I must have misunderstood what you meant by "Apple is likely counting on a large installed base of Apple devices in major countries like the US to ensure that no matter where you are, odds are likely that there will be someone with an apple device near you". To me that sounds like peoples devices will send information about other peoples property. That can't be provided for free. It uses someones energy. Someones data plan. It uses bandwidth someone else paid for.

 

[Abazigal]

I must have misunderstood what you meant by "Apple is likely counting on a large installed base of Apple devices in major countries like the US to ensure that no matter where you are, odds are likely that there will be someone with an apple device near you". To me that sounds like peoples devices will send information about other peoples property. That can't be provided for free. It uses someones energy. Someones data plan. It uses bandwidth someone else paid for.

I am referring to Bluetooth connectivity. It might use a negligible amount of battery life, but probably no more than leaving it on 24/7. At the end of the day, I doubt you will see any impact in battery life from this, and I am all the more certain there is no data usage involved.

 

[4jasontv]

I am referring to Bluetooth connectivity. It might use a negligible amount of battery life, but probably no more than leaving it on 24/7. At the end of the day, I doubt you will see any impact in battery life from this, and I am all the more certain there is no data usage involved.

Bluetooth range is fairly limited. How does it get from the person who is near your tag and you without using data?

 

[Abazigal]

Bluetooth range is fairly limited. How does it get from the person who is near your tag and you without using data?

I am going to have to do a mea culpa and retract my earlier statement about this feature not using any data. Turns out it will, but Apple is saying that any data or battery usage will be negligible.

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/

I don’t know why I was under the impression that it didn’t, but this article I linked above does an exhaustive breakdown of how it will supposedly work.

Make of it what you will.

 

[PickUrPoison]

It all comes down to being able to turn the feature off. If I have to let others use the feature to use it myself than it's not giving. It's blackmail. I am hung on it because it's important.

It’s not blackmail, it’s a mutually beneficial agreement. I want to use another’s data, so I agree to let them use a bit of mine in return.

Unless you’re saying you want others to help you find your stuff even though you refuse to help them. Then that’s just you being selfish.

It could also be that Apple is going to charge a very small fee (or throw it in free as a bundled service or even eat it) and will have negotiated with carriers to have any data related to this service be zero-rated, i.e. free to the customer and not charged against any data allowance.

 

[BuddyTronic]

I must have misunderstood what you meant by "Apple is likely counting on a large installed base of Apple devices in major countries like the US to ensure that no matter where you are, odds are likely that there will be someone with an apple device near you". To me that sounds like peoples devices will send information about other peoples property. That can't be provided for free. It uses someones energy. Someones data plan. It uses bandwidth someone else paid for.

Well we will find out. But it’s not so hard to think that Apple, through your cellphone carrier could handle it right? And it’s been mentioned but it seems like you didn’t catch that there are ways to overlay a signal on the lower levels of your cellular signal in a way that actually does not use more data - but I don’t know this for fact, but it’s not so hard to imagine. It’s fine to think it through and philosophize, but your argument seems to ignore these possibilities of the small amount of data being transparent to the end users no matter how it is presented to you - so your argument doesn’t hold value to me. Your argument would need to address this to win me over, and so far your argument has been ignoring this.

"piggyback on existing network traffic" - hope that helps