External GPU (eGPU) Resources

[F-Train]

neat!
i found some solutions but they involve a separate PCIe converter card. oh well, not there yet, i guess i'll deal with that when i get there

If you don't think that an HDMI/DisplayPort to USB-C cable will do it to run the Ultrafine 4K monitor, what's the reason?

Who/what is telling you that you need a more complicated solution?

 

[Ploki]

If you don't think that an HDMI/DisplayPort to USB-C cable will do it to run the Ultrafine 4K monitor, what's the reason?

Who/what is telling you that you need a more complicated solution?

The internet

 

[iAssimilated]

I was moments away from pulling the trigger on the ASUS XG Station Pro and a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 until I ran across some information regarding what utilizes the eGPU and what does not. I currently do some casual gaming and I was hoping to retire my old Windows PC when I purchased the new Mac mini (with an eGPU of course).

I primarily play Star Trek Online and the Total War series of games, but I came across this FAQ (https://support.feralinteractive.com/en/faqs/egpu_general/) on the latter stating non of Feral’s Total War ports support an eGPU. Also, I have found no concrete information if Star Trek Online (via Playonmac) will utilize the eGPU if I purchased one.

Does anyone here know more about the overall eGPU support for games installed by Steam or Playonmac?

 

[F-Train]

Does anyone here know more about the overall eGPU support for games installed by Steam or Playonmac?

I'm using Steam for X-Plane. The external GPU makes a huge difference. Also, I've seen posts on the X-Plane forum from which it appears that people have been using X-Plane with eGPUs, via both Steam and direct download, for some time.

 

[iAssimilated]

Did you have to tell Steam and X-Plane to use the eGPU via the checkbox in Get Info?

 

[F-Train]

Did you have to tell Steam and X-Plane to use the eGPU via the checkbox in Get Info?

I don't know if you have to, but I have. I can't think of a reason not to.

The following may be specific to my setup, but perhaps worth mentioning. I have two cables running to my monitor. To use the external GPU, I have a DisplayPort cable running from the GPU card to the monitor. To use the internal GPU, I have an HDMI cable running from my mini to the monitor. I can use controls on my monitor to switch between these connections. However, I'm finding with X-Plane that my FPS goes up noticeably if I not only change the monitor connection setting, but physically unplug the HDMI cable from the mini.

 

[iAssimilated]

Here is the original thread I found that Feral does not support eGPU in macOS (posts #23 and #25): https://steamcommunity.com/app/594570/discussions/0/1744478429680280273/?ctp=2

I would love to know if anyone has any experience playing Total War games on Steam with an eGPU. I just don't want to spend $500 for hardware that is going to sit there and look pretty while the limited onboard GPU of my mini is utilized instead.

--------

I have a question, forgive me if I do not quite understand the whole eGPU technology thing (I am relatively new to the mac ecosystem), but why isn't eGPU support baked into the operating system? What I mean by this is, why is it dependent on application support? I would think this is something the operating system would handle and software would just see the eGPU as the video card, much like an external hard drive is seen as a hard drive. Yet it almost seems the opposite is true.

 

[F-Train]

Here is the original thread I found that Feral does not support eGPU in macOS (posts #23 and #25): https://steamcommunity.com/app/594570/discussions/0/1744478429680280273/?ctp=2

I would love to know if anyone has any experience playing Total War games on Steam with an eGPU. I just don't want to spend $500 for hardware that is going to sit there and look pretty while the limited onboard GPU of my mini is utilized instead.

--------

I have a question, forgive me if I do not quite understand the whole eGPU technology thing (I am relatively new to the mac ecosystem), but why isn't eGPU support baked into the operating system? What I mean by this is, why is it dependent on application support? I would think this is something the operating system would handle and software would just see the eGPU as the video card, much like an external hard drive is seen as a hard drive. Yet it almost seems the opposite is true.

I don't see developers stating that their app won't run on an external GPU. There are applications that make limited use of a GPU altogether, such as Photoshop and Lightroom, but that is a different issue. There are also apps, such as DaVinci Resolve, and more recently Final Cut and Compressor, in which GPU use is being expanded or made more efficient.

Of what I've come across, the exception is your example of Feral Interactive, which is apparently in the business of porting games to Mac OS and iOS devices. It says that its port of War Games does not "officially" support external GPUs, whatever that means. Looking at their FAQ, there are also apparently issues with Safari and PS4. Whatever the problem is, I suspect that it has to do with porting, and perhaps with what specific Mac/iOS GPUs the War Games port was built for. It is not a problem that I'm seeing with game apps generally.

It's worth looking at the Photoshop and Lightroom FAQs on GPUs. These FAQs make it clear that when it comes to GPUs, developers are not just passive recipients of operating system instructions, but actively build GPU support into their applications. Indeed, Adobe actually lists what specific GPUs have been tested for use with its applications. Photoshop > Preferences > Performance even has a GPU section which gives one control over certain GPU parameters.

 

[johnnybeagle]

Upgraded my Sonnet 550 with a Seasonic SSR-850TR and picked up some fps with my Sapphire Radeon Vega 64

before:

after:

this is on a 2018 Mac mini i5/32gb Crucial RAM/256gb SSD

 

[iAssimilated]

Of what I've come across, the exception is your example of Feral Interactive, which is apparently in the business of porting games to Mac OS and iOS devices.

I am finding this trend as well... although, there is some reports of their games working with an eGPU if the game is purchased through the App Store. Only one way to find out... go ahead with my eGPU purchase, buy one of my favorite games from the App Store, and let the testing begin. I am also seeing people having issues with Steam games and eGPUs... hopefully this support might get better as more people start using eGPUs. I did see one response from a Steam employee stating "we know very little about eGPUs". :crossfingers:

Thank you for your responses, they have been very helpful!

 

[F-Train]

let the testing begin.

If you go with an external GPU, you may find it helpful to pull up Activity Monitor's GPU History window occasionally. It's ⌘4. The top half of the window in the photo shows activity for an AMD RX 590 (called, for some reason, Ellesmere Prototype).

 

[SecuritySteve]

Hey everyone, so I am thoroughly impressed with this thread, as it seems like there is a lot of great information here on eGPU performance. The iMac eGPU threads tend to go by unnoticed, or with little comment. My interest in eGPU is that it may be an avenue to upgrade my GPU performance once my iMac Pro's internal GPU starts to feel slow. (Who am I kidding, for gaming this thing is so thermally throttled that instead of GTX 1080 Ti performance it feels like GTX 980 Ti performance three years after it came out.)

Ideally, I would plug the eGPU into my iMac Pro and run off the internal monitor. My understanding is that this bottlenecks the performance because it has to pass the information through the CPU. In theory, would a Navi generation AMD GPU (which AMD claims will have RTX 2070 performance for half the price ... supposedly) in an eGPU setup offer notably increased performance on an iMac Pro over the Vega 64 Pro (aka Vega 64 gimped) on the internal monitor?

There have been some eGPU case manufacturers that seem to claim I would already get better performance on a RX 580 or RX Vega 64 in eGPU ... which I bet is due to thermal throttling more than anything else. GPU performance has been my only misgiving about the iMac Pro, but if an eGPU setup fixes it, it would be incredible to have the best of all worlds on my machine.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not looking for "we will need to test..." answers, because I know that. I'm more looking to see "Yes, it is theoretically very possible, if not probable" or "No, because of technical limitation X"

 

[F-Train]

In the last week, a number of us have uploaded benchmarks for RX 590, Vega 56 and Vega 64 GPUs.

Today, Gamers Nexus published this video, made with the participation of a representative of AMD Radeon, on what frame rate benchmarks actually mean, and comparing them to frame time. Not the sexiest subject, but I found the ideas interesting and think that they have application beyond gaming. The video is Part I of II:

 

[Cashmonee]

Hey everyone, so I am thoroughly impressed with this thread, as it seems like there is a lot of great information here on eGPU performance. The iMac eGPU threads tend to go by unnoticed, or with little comment. My interest in eGPU is that it may be an avenue to upgrade my GPU performance once my iMac Pro's internal GPU starts to feel slow. (Who am I kidding, for gaming this thing is so thermally throttled that instead of GTX 1080 Ti performance it feels like GTX 980 Ti performance three years after it came out.)

Ideally, I would plug the eGPU into my iMac Pro and run off the internal monitor. My understanding is that this bottlenecks the performance because it has to pass the information through the CPU. In theory, would a Navi generation AMD GPU (which AMD claims will have RTX 2070 performance for half the price ... supposedly) in an eGPU setup offer notably increased performance on an iMac Pro over the Vega 64 Pro (aka Vega 64 gimped) on the internal monitor?

There have been some eGPU case manufacturers that seem to claim I would already get better performance on a RX 580 or RX Vega 64 in eGPU ... which I bet is due to thermal throttling more than anything else. GPU performance has been my only misgiving about the iMac Pro, but if an eGPU setup fixes it, it would be incredible to have the best of all worlds on my machine.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not looking for "we will need to test..." answers, because I know that. I'm more looking to see "Yes, it is theoretically very possible, if not probable" or "No, because of technical limitation X"

The eGPU case manufacturers may be correct because you are talking about two full on desktop cards that have not been underclocked or hampered in any way to avoid thermal issues as you suspect.

As for an eGPU on an iMac, I do not believe they can accelerate the internal screen. I might be wrong on that, but I recall reading it in several places. I do not know if it is the same on the iMac Pro, but I would suspect it is. One of the guys in here will surely give a more definitive answer and correct me if I am wrong.

 

[F-Train]

Cinebench R15 OpenGL Benchmark Results, RX 590 vs RX Vega 56

Computer: 2018 Mac mini, i7/8GB/512GB
GPU enclosure: Asus XG Station Pro
Monitor: Asus ProArt 32" 3840x2160 (PA32UC)

First Screenshot: RX 590 (Sapphire Nitro+, Special Edition). Mojave identifies this GPU as HD Ellesmere Prototype.

Second Screenshot: RX Vega 56 (Asus AREZ Strix, OC Edition). AREZ Strix is the new name for the ROG Strix series.

More benchmarks to come...

[doublepost=1544649313][/doublepost]Unigine Valley Benchmark Results, RX 590 vs RX Vega 56 (Test 1 of 4)

Unigine Valley Setting for Test 1: Extreme HD Preset, 1920x1080, 8x Anti-aliasing, Full Screen

Computer: 2018 Mac mini, i7/8GB/512GB
GPU enclosure: Asus XG Station Pro
Monitor: Asus ProArt 32" 3840x2160 (PA32UC)

First Screenshot: RX 590 (Sapphire Nitro+, Special Edition). Unigine Valley identifies this GPU as Radeon Polaris.

Second Screenshot: RX Vega 56 (Asus AREZ Strix, OC Edition). AREZ Strix is the new name for the ROG Strix series.

More benchmarks to come...

 

[F-Train]

Unigine Valley Benchmark Results, RX 590 vs RX Vega 56 (Test 2 of 4)

Unigine Valley Setting for Test 2: High Quality, 1920x1080 Window, 4x Anti-aliasing

Computer: 2018 Mac mini, i7/8GB/512GB
GPU enclosure: Asus XG Station Pro
Monitor: Asus ProArt 32" 3840x2160 (PA32UC)

First Screenshot: RX 590 (Sapphire Nitro+, Special Edition). Unigine Valley identifies this GPU as Radeon Polaris.

Second Screenshot: RX Vega 56 (Asus AREZ Strix, OC Edition). AREZ Strix is the new name for the ROG Strix series.

More benchmarks to come...

 

[F-Train]

I'll be posting additional benchmarks for 2560x1440 tomorrow morning. Meanwhile, some comments on the Vega 56 and the Asus XG Station Pro enclosure...

I'm using Mojave and the Vega 56/Asus XG Station Pro. It is working fine. Lord knows why it took Asus Support two weeks (see earlier posts in this thread) to confirm that it would. The information on the Asus web site, if it still suggests that the Station Pro doesn't support the Vega cards under Mojave, is wrong.

Re heat and fan noise...

The only time that these external GPUs generate heat and have their fans running is when they are under load.

Under load, the Vega 56 generates more heat than the RX 590, but I have to put my hand right by the enclosure to notice it.

I don't notice fan noise from either of these GPUs, but when they're running I'm concentrating on other things, I have the enclosure about 1m/4' away and I'm not in the habit of putting my ear 5cm/2" from the enclosure to see what I can hear.

I had to remove the RX 590 card from the enclosure and replace it with the Vega card. A tip...

When the GPU is seated properly, and you turn on the enclosure's power button, you should see lights come on on the GPU itself and probably see the fans turn a bit. If not, the card isn't seated properly on the pins, even if you think it is; and as it turns out, the fact that the enclosure (as distinct from the GPU) lights up tells you nothing about whether the GPU itself is connected properly.

Had I realised this, I could have saved myself about an hour trying to figure out why, as far as my mini and monitor were concerned, the Vega GPU didn't exist

 

[F-Train]

These are the games that you get if you purchase certain AMD GPUs at the moment. Resident Evil 2 comes out in January, the other two in March. They sell for US$60 each. However, as far as I know, they will not be playable on the Mac Operating System.

To claim the games, you need a code from the retailer that sold you the GPU. In my case, the vendor sent me the code by e-mail one or two days after I made the purchase.

As I discovered, when you input the code on AMD's rewards site, AMD will honour the code only if its site is able to detect the new GPU in your system. This means that the GPU has to be installed in your enclosure and connected to your computer.

 

[tpivette89]

This post made me want to test out my 2018 Mac Mini with eGPU setup. I have the i5/16gb/256gb model, with an Akitio Node TB3 eGPU, equipped with an older RX 480 (4gb) card. When the eGPU is on (and working), I got the following results with the settings as follows:


Keep in mind I have a 21:9 1080p monitor, but that selection isn't available in Unigine Valley. Don't know if that matters.

 

[F-Train]

This post made me want to test out my 2018 Mac Mini with eGPU setup. I have the i5/16gb/256gb model, with an Akitio Node TB3 eGPU, equipped with an older RX 480 (4gb) card. When the eGPU is on (and working), I got the following results with the settings as follows:

View attachment 810459
Keep in mind I have a 21:9 1080p monitor, but that selection isn't available in Unigine Valley. Don't know if that matters.

Great, first benchmark for an RX 480. It would be interesting to see what you get in Unigine Valley if you set the preset to Extreme HD. That's the starting point for the benchmarks that are being used here. It will set up highest quality, 1920x1080, 8x anti-aliasing, full screen.

It would also be great to see a benchmark for Cinebench.

 

[tpivette89]

Great, first benchmark for an RX 480. It would be interesting to see what you get in Unigine Valley if you set the preset to Extreme HD. That's the starting point for the benchmarks that are being used here. It will set up highest quality, 1920x1080, 8x anti-aliasing, full screen.

It would also be great to see a benchmark for Cinebench.

I tried to mimic your last post regarding settings for Ungine Valley... if that's not acceptable, I just ran the Extreme HD settings:



Again, this is NOT my monitor's resolution... I am running a 21:9 monitor, not a 16:9.

Cinebench soon to follow...

EDIT: Just ran Cinebench...



As you can see, I've gotten slightly higher numbers from previous tests with the exact same setup, but this is a good representation of what to expect.

Keep in mind, this is an i5 with 16GB of RAM.

 

[F-Train]

Hi tpivette89,

Your Unigine Valley Extreme HD and Cinebench results for the RX 480 suggest that people aren't far off when they say that the RX 580 and RX 590 are essentially ramped-up/overclocked versions of the RX 480.

It would be great to see results for an RX 580 and Blackmagic eGPU now, the Blackmagic having a card that is a variation on an RX 580.

 

[F-Train]

Unigine Valley Benchmark Results, RX 590 vs RX Vega 56 (Test 3 of 4)

Unigine Valley Setting for Test 3: High Quality, 2560x1440 Window, 4x Anti-aliasing

Computer: 2018 Mac mini, i7/8GB/512GB
GPU enclosure: Asus XG Station Pro
Monitor: Asus ProArt 32" 3840x2160 (PA32UC)

First Screenshot: RX 590 (Sapphire Nitro+, Special Edition). Unigine Valley identifies this GPU as Radeon Polaris.

Second Screenshot: RX Vega 56 (Asus AREZ Strix, OC Edition). AREZ Strix is the new name for the ROG Strix series.

[doublepost=1544708513][/doublepost]Unigine Valley Benchmark Results, RX 590 vs RX Vega 56 (Test 4 of 4)

Unigine Valley Setting for Test 4: Medium Quality, 2560x1440 Window, 4x Anti-aliasing

Computer: 2018 Mac mini, i7/8GB/512GB
GPU enclosure: Asus XG Station Pro
Monitor: Asus ProArt 32" 3840x2160 (PA32UC)

First Screenshot: RX 590 (Sapphire Nitro+, Special Edition). Unigine Valley identifies this GPU as Radeon Polaris.

Second Screenshot: RX Vega 56 (Asus AREZ Strix, OC Edition). AREZ Strix is the new name for the ROG Strix series.

 

[stillcrazyman]

Many thanks to @F-Train and everyone else that has contributed to this very informative thread.

I don't play games. I don't edit video. The only graphic intensive thing I do with my Mini is edit raw photos. I've been trying to determine if an eGPU is a worthwhile upgrade for me. I've edited a few hundred raw photos so far with the i-gpu in the Mini, and for the most part it all works well. The only times I notice any slowing down is when I'm using a heal / clone brush. I expect that.
I contacted ON1 software and DxO for more input. I was informed that both programs I use would make use of an eGPU, but not too specific on how.

I have money set aside to purchase a decent gpu setup. I'm just looking for a bit more input as to whether it's worth doing.

Any advice would be appreciated !

 

[F-Train]

Many thanks to @F-Train and everyone else that has contributed to this very informative thread.

I don't play games. I don't edit video. The only graphic intensive thing I do with my Mini is edit raw photos. I've been trying to determine if an eGPU is a worthwhile upgrade for me. I've edited a few hundred raw photos so far with the i-gpu in the Mini, and for the most part it all works well. The only times I notice any slowing down is when I'm using a heal / clone brush. I expect that.
I contacted ON1 software and DxO for more input. I was informed that both programs I use would make use of an eGPU, but not too specific on how.

I have money set aside to purchase a decent gpu setup. I'm just looking for a bit more input as to whether it's worth doing.

Any advice would be appreciated !

I use Photoshop/Lightroom to edit full frame 35mm digital photos and scans of 6x7, 4x5 and 8x10 negatives. I process these one at a time and don't do extensive image manipulation. My first 2018 Mac mini was an i5/8GB/256GB. I thought that it was fine for the kind of photo editing that I do. I exchanged the i5 for an i7, and purchased an external GPU, only because I've decided to make all of my videos in 4K and I'm impatient when it comes to rendering.

In your post, you say "The only times I notice any slowing down is when I'm using a heal / clone brush." This is precisely the kind of rendering task that an external GPU should speed up. The question is, is it worth it to you to spend at least US$400 to get closer to real-time performance on tasks like this?

More generally, there is actually quite a bit of discussion on the internet about ON1 Photo and dedicated or external GPUs. Also, ON1's recommended, as distinct from minimum, requirements include a dedicated GPU. There are also discussions about DxO PhotoLab on this subject. Adobe has published support documents that state exactly how Photoshop and Lightroom use GPUs. These aren't directly applicable, but are perhaps worth a look.

In your position, I'd try to identify an Apple store that has a Blackmagic eGPU on the floor, pay a visit with my mini, and see how the Blackmagic performs for my image workflow. I wouldn't purchase a Blackmagic (I think that it is grossly overpriced and I don't like the fact that it can't be upgraded), but this is one way to find out what an eGPU will, and won't, do for you.

You also say "I don't play games". Neither did I. However, having purchased an RX 590 external GPU, I decided, because I'm working on a pilot's license, to play around with X-Plane. Next thing you know, I've exchanged the RX 590 for an RX Vega 56. I'm not going to even attempt to justify this in Final Cut/video editing terms. Be forewarned