Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[iCantSee]

I’ve got better than 20.20 vision and have a job where I stare at a computer screen for 14 hours a day. That is fine, but I can’t look at an OLED for more than 10 minutes without getting a headache.

This issue is particularly annoying because when you describe this to someone you sound like a complete quack/crazy person.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I realize someone fresh coming into this thread won’t read the 5600 previous replies but let me just assure you, we have collectively covered it all.
- see an eye doctor
- try different screen protectors
- reduce white point
- adjust screen brightness
- try different types of glasses lenses
- the other 30 things I forget

I have not had any eye procedures, see just fine, stare at a laptop 8-10 hours per day for work, use a MacBook A1 without issue, etc..

I don’t personally believe it’s simply an eye issue. I think it’s a combination of optical and neurological processing of the flicker that is causing the symptoms. I have the 14 Pro Max on it’s way as I mentioned before and not one iota of me is excited. Instead, I am anticipating a new battery for my 11 and nothing more.

 

[happy orchard]

Also, I feel like people think we're weak or stupid.

Weak for being bothered by something that they clearly think they are not.

Stupid because have we thought about having our eyes checked or changing the brightness or some other obvious thing.

 

[1369281]

Also, I feel like people think we're weak or stupid.

Weak for being bothered by something that they clearly think they are not.

Stupid because have we thought about having our eyes checked or changing the brightness or some other obvious thing.

On the opposite side of that, I actually think less of people who say they don't experience issues with PWM.

Whether true or not, my suspicion is these are people who don't notice things, generally, and are not particular about anything. They don't care if a picture is crooked on a wall. They are OK with living in an untidy house. They don't wash their car. They don't put their shopping cart in a cart return at supermarkets. Their TV's picture mode is set to "Vivid" and uncalibrated. (I'll stop there...)

But the fact is that everyone is negatively affected by displays that use PWM for brightness control; some just are not affected much as others.

 

[Septembersrain]

I’ve wondered that too. I had lasik. I also had some weird eye issue before that though but once I had lasik the size of my pupils became a big issue. Perhaps my pupils being so big makes them more prone to PWM issues?

I use alfagan to shrink my pupils smaller than my lasik scars so I can drive at night and reduce starbursts… maybe using alfagan during the day would reduce headaches from PWM? Unfortunately alfagan doesn’t last very long.

I just got told I've got huge pupils myself. I saw this post and was like woah woah woah!

Edit: I had no issues with the 11 Pro Max but to be honest I could have been suffering but only a little. That 13 Pro Max got obvious. I was losing my vision.

 

[happy orchard]

On the opposite side of that, I actually think less of people who say they don't experience issues with PWM.

Whether true or not, my suspicion is these are people who don't notice things, generally, and are not particular about anything. They don't care if a picture is crooked on a wall. They are OK with living in an untidy house. They don't wash their car. They don't put their shopping cart in a cart return at supermarkets. Their TV's picture mode is set to "Vivid" and uncalibrated. (I'll stop there...)

But the fact is that everyone is negatively affected by displays that use PWM for brightness control; some just are not affected much as others.

Ohmygosh YES!

…I mean, yeah, maybe, could be.

My strongest thought is that those noticeably affected (as in the individuals themselves notice) is some some aspect of heightened sensitivity. I hate to use that word because there seems to a horrible societal connotation to ’sensitivity’ as if it’s a synonym for ’weak’ or ‘picky.‘ In reality, it simply means someone is wired to pick up on something more easily or quickly.

In this case, I think some of us are picking up on the negative qualities of these OLED screens, be it the PWM, dithering, etc. I tend to think it’s likely not good for any of us, but I acknowledge I could be wrong.

But I absolutely believe that people who are affected by these screens have in some way a heightened sensitivity. It’s like a superpower that Apple is currently abusing.

 

[jrajpaul]

Some of us are sensitive to motion. The Pwm causes visible motion on the screen which leads to nausea, headache etc. I have very slight astigmatism so the focus Point on my retina is slightly off due to the shape of my eyeball. I suspect this is what is causing the problem for most of us. There is a condition called binocular vision dysfunction.

Anyway, I’m buying the 14 pro. If it doesn’t work out for me, I will take my wife’s 12 pro and switch it out for an lcd screen and let you guys know. Im using the iPhone 11 and would prefer some of the new tech in the 12 pro even with the lcd screen.

 

[Septembersrain]

Some of us are sensitive to motion. The Pwm causes visible motion on the screen which leads to nausea, headache etc. I have very slight astigmatism so the focus Point on my retina is slightly off due to the shape of my eyeball. I suspect this is what is causing the problem for most of us. There is a condition called binocular vision dysfunction.

Anyway, I’m buying the 14 pro. If it doesn’t work out for me, I will take my wife’s 12 pro and switch it out for an lcd screen and let you guys know. Im using the iPhone 11 and would prefer some of the new tech in the 12 pro even with the lcd screen.

My axis is 80 but 90 on the other. Perhaps we all have a legitimate concern and we can only hope we don't all go blind in long term from all these devices.

 

[john g.]

Some of us are sensitive to motion. The Pwm causes visible motion on the screen which leads to nausea, headache etc. I have very slight astigmatism so the focus Point on my retina is slightly off due to the shape of my eyeball. I suspect this is what is causing the problem for most of us. There is a condition called binocular vision dysfunction.

Anyway, I’m buying the 14 pro. If it doesn’t work out for me, I will take my wife’s 12 pro and switch it out for an lcd screen and let you guys know. Im using the iPhone 11 and would prefer some of the new tech in the 12 pro even with the lcd screen.

Sounds like a prudent plan, one I may follow as I am in the same boat.

 

[happy orchard]

I’m a little excited at the prospect of this thread evolving from ‘I can’t use OLED’ to ‘I replaced OLED with LCD and the world of technology is amazing again.’

 

[Leindt]

I was in a corporate Verizon store yesterday reminding myself of the sizes. I haven’t been in this store in 3 years but surprisingly saw familiar faces still working there. I asked them about PWM and they looked at me like I was a talking penguin. I get the same look at Apple stores. I really question just how well this is truly known.

100% They don't know anything about PWM, it doesn't care if it is an Apple store, or whatever, sometimes it feels hopeless

 

[GlenK]

When I turned in my last 13Pro when I told the girl the reason she said, oh wow, I hadn't heard that before maybe that's why I have a headache all the time! I think many people have this issue but haven't connected the dots.

 

[kargurin]

I believe it's more complex than we think. I'm using a Note 10+. Which is not much different with regard to PWM than any other phone after that. So 2 years ago I bought the Max 12. I got headaches and didn't know why. So I thought no big deal, I'll just return it for the S21 Ultra. Same thing. I should have headaches with the 10+ but I don't. I take my phone to a store with a demo (iPhone or Android), pull up the same story on the web browser, same brightness, same color temp (or as close as I can get) and it feels like one screen has swimming or moving text and the other does not.

 

[Howyalikdemapls]

When I turned in my last 13Pro when I told the girl the reason she said, oh wow, I hadn't heard that before maybe that's why I have a headache all the time! I think many people have this issue but haven't connected the dots.

It took me like a year after getting the iPhone X.

I wonder if there are public stats to see number of neurology visits per year for headaches/migraines 🤔

 

[dstow]

Now that reviews are flooding in, hopefully someone will touch on the PWM - nothing from zollotech yet, his latest video is just reviewing the high octane important apple case line-up for the 14 not the foot-note aneurysm causing eye-strain displays destroying everyone's lives in this thread

 

[Proteinaceous]

Now that reviews are flooding in, hopefully someone will touch on the PWM - nothing from zollotech yet, his latest video is just reviewing the high octane important apple case line-up for the 14 not the foot-note aneurysm causing eye-strain displays destroying everyone's lives in this thread

He may not have a review unit from Apple so we may have to wait until after Friday when the phones are officially out for him to review…unfortunately.

 

[Paradoxally]

100% They don't know anything about PWM, it doesn't care if it is an Apple store, or whatever, sometimes it feels hopeless

Even many tech folk don't know what that is. Fortunately, it doesn't make a difference as PWM doesn't affect me (to the point of discomfort).

I have many different screen types at home and work, and there are 3 things I notice immediately: resolution, pixel density, and refresh rate.

I mention ProMotion to other people, and they're like "I don't even notice a difference [between 60 Hz and 120 Hz]". But I play competitive multiplayer games and 120 Hz is a massive upgrade over 60 on a large screen, so I also notice it on a smaller one.

Resolution and pixel density are also major because I work with many devices and screens daily (mobile dev).

Maybe we're all trained to notice things differently.

 

[john g.]

Verge review shows some screen slow motion at just after 3:30.

Does not look like it's flickering to me but it's really close up.

 

[happy orchard]

Verge review shows some screen slow motion at just after 3:30.

Does not look like it's flickering to me but it's really close up.

Agreed. I don't see flickering, but I'm feeling a jagged movement. 'Feeling' being the key term there. Makes sense. But wonder if others notice it, wonder if others 'feel' it. Do you?

 

[CorbinDallas]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I can say that I experienced significant headaches, eye strain and ear pain (when making phone calls), while using the 13 pro max. I sold that phone and have been using the s22 ultra and I'm not experiencing any of those symptoms anymore. To me, I had attributed it more so to Face ID over the screen itself. On the s22 ultra, I don't have facial recognition enabled, so I'm only using the fingerprint reader for what it's worth. I have pre-ordered the 14 pro max and will try it out again, but I have a feeling as long as I'm using iPhone with Face ID that I will continue to experience these issues - something about all the sensors scanning your face all day long 🤔.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Verge review shows some screen slow motion at just after 3:30.

Does not look like it's flickering to me but it's really close up.

That is a very microscopic slo-mo of the Dynamic Island, and I do have to say beyond PWM rates possibly lining up with slow-motion filming rates multiple videos confirm to me that there’s the possibility of a dramatic upgrade to the display engine this year.

I’m almost prepared to come here on Friday to say that Apple’s finally fixed the PWM, but I won’t get ahead of myself.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Does anyone remember the name of the YouTuber who would actually acknowledge and comment on PWM in his reviews?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Does anyone remember the name of the YouTuber who would actually acknowledge and comment on PWM in his reviews?

Zollotech. He’s been fine in recent generations.

 

[happy orchard]

So we're all on Zollotech watch now, right?

 

[5105973]

I think we here can contribute to the cause by ordering the 14 then returning it with the explanation 'causes headaches. ' And if enough do that maybe something will change. There shouldn't be a cost to do this just a bit of inconvenience.

I get surveys after pretty much every iPhone purchase. They are really detailed and I get to evaluate each model I’ve bought as well as my purchase experience. I’ve discussed pwm and its effects on my health with even the LCD models that don’t hurt me. For example, I said that I got this iPhone SE because I can’t use the Pro models anymore and I explained how pwm impacts my health and how relieved I am Apple continues to offer LCD displays on some of their phones. And I express hope I’ll eventually be able to use their OLED models like I can my Android OLED phones. 😈

Because I can use Android OLED phones, even some that had pink tint and looked awful. Yes I can sometimes feel some pwm eye strain but I don’t get alarming neurological effects and never have from an Android OLED phone. I know Android isn’t the answer for most people here. PWM is going to hurt a lot of people no matter what display it’s on.

But for me, Apple does something differently that gives me more serious repercussions than anything I’ve ever felt from an Android display.

They’re getting their panels from Samsung, whose Galaxy panels have not made me sick. THEY know they’re doing something different. They need to adjust whatever “that” is.

Does anyone else get after-purchase surveys? My husband doesn’t. I don’t think I’ve ever failed to get one. I must have signed up at some point and forgot about it.