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Are you experiencing this issue?


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The.Glorious.Son

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2015
1,684
3,592
Chicago, IL
iPhone OLED phones use pulse-width modulation to control display brightness. This means it is literally turning the backlight on and off at a quick speed while your retinas are looking at it. The lower the brightness, the slower the on/off.

Your brain is not somehow tricking your body into having negative health effects -- this is a real, physical issue with these phones.

This thread, throughout the years, has gone through two waves of discussion:
1. When a new iPhone is released, we talk about if it has PWM, what the frequency is, etc.
2. After we determine it has PWM and it's still an issue, the bulk of the year is folks trying to force themselves into making these phones work for them, despite the headaches, eyestrain, nausea, and other negative health effects.

It's not worth it. My stance is that I will never use a phone, monitor, or TV that uses PWM. I won't be changing because I value my wellbeing.
I don't understand your response here. The person you quoted understands OLED and what PWM is. They simply stated that despite issues with in-store phones, since they don't have issues after an actual purchase, that maybe they were psyching themselves into thinking an issue existed when it actually didnt.

They didn't one time suggest that PWM is "all in people's heads" or insinuate that others cannot possibly have real-life symptoms. They only offered a possible theory as to why they are no longer having any issues.
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
I'm starting to feel crazy 🤯 So friday night my husband pretty much made me buy a 14 pro since I've been so butt hurt about missing out on the island and pro camera. Said I had to at least try it since I wanted it THAT bad, I could always return it if it gave me headaches. I picked it up saturday morning and have been using it pretty heavily since then, and I'm... fine? No symptoms at all even with ProMotion enabled, reduce motion off, and no blue-light screen protector. How?

Any time I played with one in stores for even a few minutes my eyes would start to hurt, so how is it that it suddenly stopped affecting me after I bought one? Granted it's still soon to fully call it, the true test will be on the next pokemon community day when I'm staring at the screen for 3-6 hours, but I'm starting to think my problem really might just be psychosomatic. I always run betas so maybe Apple changed something in 16.4 to make PM less jumpy, or maybe my specific unit is just special in some way? I am not complaining at all, I'm thrilled with the phone but I'm just so confused lol.
The store lighting may also be flickering at a barely perceptible rate. Combined with the flicker of the display of the phone it's too much for your nervous system.

I am not comfortable using my phones in my kitchen. We have recessed lighting with LED lightbulbs. I once used my XS Max in the kitchen and ended up with a seizure.
 
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Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,640
6,720
Spain, Europe
I wanted to ask, to everyone in this thread, who’s an iPhone 14 user? Not Pro, not Plus, just the regular 6.1” iPhone 14. Are you having migraines or eye strain? Or do you feel it comfortable?

Is there anyone who couldn’t stand the iPhone 13 and can use the 14 comfortably?

Thank you.
 
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MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
5,414
3,408
NJ
I wanted to ask, to everyone in this thread, who’s an iPhone 14 user? Not Pro, not Plus, just the regular 6.1” iPhone 14. Are you having migraines or eye strain? Or do you feel it comfortable?

Is there anyone who couldn’t stand the iPhone 13 and can use the 14 comfortably?

Thank you.
iPhone 14 was the worst of the bunch in my opinion.
 

martin2345uk

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2013
1,443
1,172
Essex
I wanted to ask, to everyone in this thread, who’s an iPhone 14 user? Not Pro, not Plus, just the regular 6.1” iPhone 14. Are you having migraines or eye strain? Or do you feel it comfortable?

Is there anyone who couldn’t stand the iPhone 13 and can use the 14 comfortably?

Thank you.

I’m a 14 user and as I’ve mentioned in another thread somewhere my headaches and eye strain have completely disappeared. BUT obviously this leads to the question “was it even the PWM in the first place?”
 

esaelias187

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2017
219
117
This may sound crazy i have a lg oled which does not have pwm

Will apple tv connected to it give it flicker?

As it the apple tv may control the pulse or flicker rate on the tv?
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,640
6,720
Spain, Europe
I’m a 14 user and as I’ve mentioned in another thread somewhere my headaches and eye strain have completely disappeared. BUT obviously this leads to the question “was it even the PWM in the first place?”
Did you have them on older models, or was the 14 your first OLED iPhone?
 

john g.

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2012
405
734
I wanted to ask, to everyone in this thread, who’s an iPhone 14 user? Not Pro, not Plus, just the regular 6.1” iPhone 14. Are you having migraines or eye strain? Or do you feel it comfortable?

Is there anyone who couldn’t stand the iPhone 13 and can use the 14 comfortably?

Thank you.
.
 
Last edited:

Splitrail

macrumors 6502a
Dec 26, 2021
898
1,099
I am trying out my 3rd 14 😮
Third times the charm.
The things I did differently this time was to keep the display at standard resolution and not zoomed. Just bumped up text size. The other thing is a glass anti glare matte screen protector. The clear ones amp up the reflections for me. Only on the OLED screens. Clear one are fine on LCD.

Maybe I finally got lucky with the screen lottery?
................or got tired of playing the screen lottery? 🤔
 

pipapoh

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2023
11
16
Could you please tell me the produce date ( in the back of the IPhone's box ) for the IPhone 14 pro that you got no issues with it ?
I'm going to try one
Sadly, I had to return it within a week of usage. I got some eyestrain after about 4 days. No headaches though. But, I dont want to spend so much money on a worse experiance. I am about 2,5 hours of SOT a day, so not a heavy user.
 
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jimmy_uk

macrumors 68020
Oct 19, 2015
2,346
3,161
UK
You always need to remain sceptical when users claim they are suddenly fine with OLED when they couldn't use it before. It can take time, days/weeks before they realise their eyes are still straining/reacting to PWM and the brain registers the issue.

There is a screen lottery, so some may be finding that one display is easier to use than a previous one, but ultimately the strain will come in some form.
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,640
6,720
Spain, Europe
I don't want to offend anyone, nor invalidate your experiences, because I suffer this problem as well. However, recently I had some experiences that are leading me to think that there's a psychological aspect on this.

I'm not sure if the first batches of the iPhone 13 mini were different, but I remember using my first iPhone 13 mini, gorgeous starlight, during the holidays of 2021 without any issues. I returned that unit because we didn't have a method to unlock with a facemask on, and I have been using a facemask on most closed places until recently. I wasn't aware of the PWM issue by then, and I don't remember having that problem back then.

Then, I decided to purchase the 13 mini again during the summer of 2022, when we finally had FaceID unlock with a mask, and it was then when I started to feel eyestrain, to the point of my eyes getting red. That was when I started to look this issue up and I realised I wasn't the only one... I returned it, and during the holidays of 2022, I purchased it again in midnight and the problem was still there although less severe. So I returned it and said goodbye to the chance of having a mini iPhone (unless I have the courage and knowledge to exchange the screen for an in-cell LCD one).

However, there's more. Here's my experience with my most recent purchase, the M2 iPad Pro.

Initially I purchased the 128GB unit and was using it during the holydays of 2022, with no problem, so I decided to go for the 256GB version in order to future-proof it and keep that device for many years. And then, the problems started. Mind you, the 256GB version has a different screen than the 128GB version, because I was able to compare several of them. The 256GB has a warmer hue, slightly more saturated colors, and better sharpnes but I think slightly lower response time, but I'm not 100% sure of that because it is really subtle. But, yes, the screens are different, and possibly from different manufacturers.

With the 256GB M2 iPad Pro I started to have sore eyes, and headaches. Maybe it was from over using it? Maybe it was my eye's health? I went to the ophthalmologist, and she said "there's a lot we still don't know about screen effects on our health in the long term, probably in 10-15 years we'll start to see a lot of pathologies that could be caused by the massive use of screens. In the meantime, just try to reduce the use of screens and spend more time outside" And then I told her that, like most people nowadays, my job/studies/hobbies/social interactions require interacting with a screen. So she replied "then it is a matter of trial of error. If you notice a screen is comfortable to your eyes, just use that. If you find it uncomfortable, just don't"

So I returned my beloved 256GB M2 iPad Pro, and after a month I purchased both an 128GB and weeks later a 256GB model. With the 128GB I was fine, but when I wanted to use the 256GB my headaches started again. After some days, I got used to it, and when using the 128GB model my eyes got sore again... To the point that I didn't even know what device was producing the discomfort. I kept using both and the sympthoms remained for both, but the returning window was about to expire so... I decided to return the 256GB again. And kept my 128GB model, because despite it causing discomfort, I had been using it without any issues for three weeks prior to getting the 256GB model. And most importantly, in case of more problems, it would be easier to sell the base model rather than the 256GB model. I would lose more money if I finally had to sell the 256GB model in the second hand market.

And... guess what happened once I returned the 256GB model and kept using the 128GB model, without the stress of having to decide which one to keep. Yes, I'm still using the iPad Pro without any trace of eye strain or headaches. Which leads me to think that maybe this has a psychological component... or maybe changing the screens every two days was what triggered the problems, I don't know.

All in all, I kept the 128GB model, and maybe this is a bit of an off-topic, but now I am a bit worried that it will be not enough in the long run, or that the SSD will degradate in a shorter time than the 256GB model, because that one should have double the TBW (Terabytes written until the SSD dies). I use pretty intensively the iPad with video recordings that take 2 to 3GB each day, then transfer it to my mac. So I am more worried about the health of the SSD in the long run than about the capacity, as external drives exist.

But, given the circumstances, I preferred to opt for a better, more comfortable screen -for me- than having more SSD, which could have come in handy. Of course, I don't plan on gettiing an OLED iPad Pro lol both because of my eyes health, and the exorbitant price Apple is going to charge for it.

TL;DR: It's saturday, and I wanted to talk a bit somewhere, feel free to ignore this brick if you don't feel like reading it.
 
Last edited:
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Enjoyneer

macrumors newbie
Oct 16, 2021
8
7
Managed to get a local repair shop to replace the screen of my 13 mini - it's out of warranty - with an RJ incell screen. It was not cheap but perhaps money well spent in terms of an experiment. The good news is that it works. Will see if there is an impact on battery life but I suspect there will be.

Pros
- My RADEX Lupin device now registers only 1.5% flicker rate at 25% brightness. It's not as good as the SE 2022 which is a constant 0.7% across all brightness levels. The OLED screen was around 8-10%. The screen is definitely more comfortable. Whilst I didn't get headaches on the OLED, I did feel a constant kind of burning sensation in my eyes
- True Tone works
- the screen thinness is the same as the original screen

Cons
- Auto brightness does not work
- The notch is slightly longer and does clip the GPS icon and signal bars
- warning in the settings screen that the display is an unknown part
I'm about to try this in the future (I had to get rid of an iphone 13 mini days after buying it and go to an SE 2022).
Why does auto brightness not work?
 

Expos of 1969

Contributor
Aug 25, 2013
4,741
9,257
I don't want to offend anyone, nor invalidate your experiences, because I suffer this problem as well. However, recently I had some experiences that are leading me to think that there's a psychological aspect on this.

I'm not sure if the first batches of the iPhone 13 mini were different, but I remember using my first iPhone 13 mini, gorgeous starlight, during the holidays of 2021 without any issues. I returned that unit because we didn't have a method to unlock with a facemask on, and I have been using a facemask on most closed places until recently. I wasn't aware of the PWM issue by then, and I don't remember having that problem back then.

Then, I decided to purchase the 13 mini again during the summer of 2022, when we finally had FaceID unlock with a mask, and it was then when I started to feel eyestrain, to the point of my eyes getting red. That was when I started to look this issue up and I realised I wasn't the only one... I returned it, and during the holidays of 2022, I purchased it again in midnight and the problem was still there although less severe. So I returned it and said goodbye to the chance of having a mini iPhone (unless I have the courage and knowledge to exchange the screen for an in-cell LCD one).

However, there's more. Here's my experience with my most recent purchase, the M2 iPad Pro.

Initially I purchased the 128GB unit and was using it during the holydays of 2022, with no problem, so I decided to go for the 256GB version in order to future-proof it and keep that device for many years. And then, the problems started. Mind you, the 256GB version has a different screen than the 128GB version, because I was able to compare several of them. The 256GB has a warmer hue, slightly more saturated colors, and better sharpnes but I think slightly lower response time, but I'm not 100% sure of that because it is really subtle. But, yes, the screens are different, and possibly from different manufacturers.

With the 256GB M2 iPad Pro I started to have sore eyes, and headaches. Maybe it was from over using it? Maybe it was my eye's health? I went to the ophthalmologist, and she said "there's a lot we still don't know about screen effects on our health in the long term, probably in 10-15 years we'll start to see a lot of pathologies that could be caused by the massive use of screens. In the meantime, just try to reduce the use of screens and spend more time outside" And then I told her that, like most people nowadays, my job/studies/hobbies/social interactions require interacting with a screen. So she replied "then it is a matter of trial of error. If you notice a screen is comfortable to your eyes, just use that. If you find it uncomfortable, just don't"

So I returned my beloved 256GB M2 iPad Pro, and after a month I purchased both an 128GB and weeks later a 256GB model. With the 128GB I was fine, but when I wanted to use the 256GB my headaches started again. After some days, I got used to it, and when using the 128GB model my eyes got sore again... To the point that I didn't even know what device was producing the discomfort. I kept using both and the sympthoms remained for both, but the returning window was about to expire so... I decided to return the 256GB again. And kept my 128GB model, because despite it causing discomfort, I had been using it without any issues for three weeks prior to getting the 256GB model. And most importantly, in case of more problems, it would be easier to sell the base model rather than the 256GB model. I would lose more money if I finally had to sell the 256GB model in the second hand market.

And... guess what happened once I returned the 256GB model and kept using the 128GB model, without the stress of having to decide which one to keep. Yes, I'm still using the iPad Pro without any trace of eye strain or headaches. Which leads me to think that maybe this has a psychological component... or maybe changing the screens every two days was what triggered the problems, I don't know.

All in all, I kept the 128GB model, and maybe this is a bit of an off-topic, but now I am a bit worried that it will be not enough in the long run, or that the SSD will degradate in a shorter time than the 256GB model, because that one should have double the TBW (Terabytes written until the SSD dies). I use pretty intensively the iPad with video recordings that take 2 to 3GB each day, then transfer it to my mac. So I am more worried about the health of the SSD in the long run than about the capacity, as external drives exist.

But, given the circumstances, I preferred to opt for a better, more comfortable screen -for me- than having more SSD, which could have come in handy. Of course, I don't plan on gettiing an OLED iPad Pro lol both because of my eyes health, and the exorbitant price Apple is going to charge for it.

TL;DR: It's saturday, and I wanted to talk a bit somewhere, feel free to ignore this brick if you don't feel like reading it.
I had the same experience with the 13 mini. First one I purchased caused no problems but I returned it just due to a change of mind. A few months later I purchased the 13 mini again but had to sell it after three days as it was causing my eyes to burn and slight headaches. I have since been using the SE 3 with no difficulties, probably as it is a LCD display.
 
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YarosRed

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2023
19
6
Hello 👋 , I got eyestrain and dizziness after updating to iOS 16.3 (before that I was using iOS 16.1.1, iPhone 14PM). Yesterday the new iOS 16.4 was released, I really hope that it will fix this situation. Perhaps someone had similar situations?
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,640
6,720
Spain, Europe
Hello 👋 , I got eyestrain and dizziness after updating to iOS 16.3 (before that I was using iOS 16.1.1, iPhone 14PM). Yesterday the new iOS 16.4 was released, I really hope that it will fix this situation. Perhaps someone had similar situations?
I kinda had, but eventually I adapted. Hopefully iOS 16.4 will be easier on my eyes. I’ll report here when I update my iPad Pro.
 

cgolca

macrumors member
Apr 25, 2011
47
50
Hello 👋 , I got eyestrain and dizziness after updating to iOS 16.3 (before that I was using iOS 16.1.1, iPhone 14PM). Yesterday the new iOS 16.4 was released, I really hope that it will fix this situation. Perhaps someone had similar situations?
I’ve been using an iPhone SE 2020 since I’m very sensitive to PWM. I was symptom free until I mistakenly updated to iOS 16. I began experiencing eye strain, headaches, and dizziness. I can definitely say iOS 16.4 is better but still not as good as iOS 15. I’m currently experiencing slight eye strain and headache.
 

YarosRed

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2023
19
6
I’ve been using an iPhone SE 2020 since I’m very sensitive to PWM. I was symptom free until I mistakenly updated to iOS 16. I began experiencing eye strain, headaches, and dizziness. I can definitely say iOS 16.4 is better but still not as good as iOS 15. I’m currently experiencing slight eye strain and headache.
Better than IOS 16.3? Or IOS 16.1.1?
I hope that after the new update I don’t have any symptoms of dizziness
 

!!!

macrumors 6502a
Aug 5, 2013
665
888

Has anyone seen this? I always thought it was funny how they continue to ignore the PWM yet would spend 10 seconds on TV+ shows informing me that there could be flashing lights. Maybe this means the iPhone 15 will have no PWM?
 

Populus

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2012
4,640
6,720
Spain, Europe

Has anyone seen this? I always thought it was funny how they continue to ignore the PWM yet would spend 10 seconds on TV+ shows informing me that there could be flashing lights. Maybe this means the iPhone 15 will have no PWM?
I highly doubt it, but -mark my words- if the 15 Pro comes without PWM, I’ll save some extra money to buy it instead of the regular 14.
 
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