Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[now i see it]

wondered if a consensus had emerged?

There is no consensus — which is likely why the OLED manufacturers (Samsung) can’t create an OLED panel that pleases everyone.
One panel might thrash a person while another person might not be bothered at all.

 

[Corncab44]

There is no consensus — which is likely why the OLED manufacturers (Samsung) can’t create an OLED panel that pleases everyone.
One panel might thrash a person while another person might not be bothered at all.

It's interesting, the first time I encountered this was when I bought an iPhone 12 pro. Had no idea this problem existed but immediately was nauseous. Got an 11 and that's been fine for years. My work phone is an iphone 13 pro and its not great but not as bad as the 12. But holy sh*t this 14 pro not only do I feel bad looking at it but my eyes hurt after for a long long time. Just crazy! Seems like the 13 pro may be the best for me -- and another lesson to just use phones less.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've seen conflicting accounts of the PWM on the iphone 13,14 and 15.

I have an 11 which gives me no issues but is broken. 13 pro is OK. I just tried 14 pro and it burns my eyes, causes tearing etc. I tried a 15 pro in store and seemed uncomfortable. Is the 14 pro 480hz at highest brightness or 240 hz? What about 15 pro? I know this has been discussed here but after a year or two (in the case of the 14 pro) I wondered if a consensus had emerged? One wrinkle is the 13 pro I have is a work phone and the other would be personal, so I'd be switching periodically between the two. Wonder if I should just get a refurbed 13 pro.

There can be no consensus as everyone is physically different and there is a screen lottery (different manufacturers, different acceptable tolerances with screen calibration at the factory). If you have been able to use a 13 Pro, I would jump on a refurb for personal use.

 

[PwmMen]

I have a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL here for the test.
Despite the settings, that doesn't cause me any problems.
For 3.5 hours at a time at a time, and everything was fine.
It may be worth testing the pixel for one or the other.
If the days continue, I consider not to use Apple smartphone anymore.

 

[now i see it]

Who knows…
Maybe the iPhone GPU is a contributor to our misery

 

[DJTaurus]

I have a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL here for the test.
Despite the settings, that doesn't cause me any problems.
For 3.5 hours at a time at a time, and everything was fine.
It may be worth testing the pixel for one or the other.
If the days continue, I consider not to use Apple smartphone anymore.

On a review they said that it’s using an LTPO Oled. And first thing came to my mind were the LTPOs of Motorola were lots of users found them the most comfortable among oleds.

 

[Heman87]

On a review they said that it’s using an LTPO Oled. And first thing came to my mind were the LTPOs of Motorola were lots of users found them the most comfortable among oleds.

You mean pOLED. Motorola uses pOLED screens. LTPO or low-temperature polycrystalline oxide is a type of backplane tech used in OLED displays that allows your screen to operate at variable refresh rates, while using less battery than a standard OLED display. So that means 1hz to 120 refresh rates on a for example the iPhone pro models. The pixel line up has a 240hz PWM. It’s too low for me. I won’t try it.

 

[DJTaurus]

You mean pOLED. Motorola uses pOLED screens. LTPO or low-temperature polycrystalline oxide is a type of backplane tech used in OLED displays that allows your screen to operate at variable refresh rates, while using less battery than a standard OLED display. So that means 1hz to 120 refresh rates on a for example the iPhone pro models. The pixel line up has a 240hz PWM. It’s too low for me. I won’t try it.

Sorry yes. Pixel 9 has a pOLED like Motorolas.

 

[Heman87]

Sorry yes. Pixel 9 has a pOLED like Motorolas.

Are you sure? I read that they use the M14 displays from Samsung as the Samsung s24. But if you really want a pixel phone, Nick from Android central found a way to boost up the PMW frequency of the pixel 8 to 4800hz. But you will loose color accuracy. If I look at reviews of the pixel 9 I already see the screen flickering. So no good screens for me.

Motorla phones use really DC dimming method. So that’s why they are they community favorite with Xiaomi (13). Im going to try both phones next month if the iPhone 16 line up is the same as the 15 lineup regarding PWM frequencies.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1e69wgd

Anyway someone on Reddit said that Ross Young (a very trustworthy screen analist) that Samsung would provide PWM free OLED displays and that the iPhone 17 line up will use this technology. This is hopeful news but I can’t find the resource 🥲. So I’m not sure if this is true.

 

[Heman87]

Are you sure? I read that they use the M14 displays from Samsung as the Samsung s24. But if you really want a pixel phone, Nick from Android central found a way to boost up the PMW frequency of the pixel 8 to 4800hz. But you will loose color accuracy. If I look at reviews of the pixel 9 I already see the screen flickering. So no good screens for me.

Motorla phones use really DC dimming method. So that’s why they are they community favorite with Xiaomi (13). Im going to try both phones next month if the iPhone 16 line up is the same as the 15 lineup regarding PWM frequencies.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1e69wgd

Anyway someone on Reddit said that Ross Young (a very trustworthy screen analist) that Samsung would provide PWM free OLED displays and that the iPhone 17 line up will use this technology. This is hopeful news but I can’t find the resource 🥲. So I’m not sure if this is true.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Anyway someone on Reddit said that Ross Young (a very trustworthy screen analist) that Samsung would provide PWM free OLED displays and that the iPhone 17 line up will use this technology. This is hopeful news but I can’t find the resource 🥲. So I’m not sure if this is true.

It sounds plausible. Samsung and Apple are well aware of the issue. Maybe Apple finally said they would only accept PWM-free displays starting in 2025.

The SE is adopting OLED panels so there would literally be no option for PWM-sensitive users.

I’m almost at the point where I would use an iPhone 16 even with 24/7 migraines, as crazy as that sounds, and I pull back from the idea when I consider long-term health and impact.

 

[PwmMen]

Für mich ist das Google Pixel 9 Pro XL nach dem iPhone 12 Pro das beste Smartphone in Sachen PWM.
Sollte Apple mit dem iPhone 16 nicht nachbessern, werde ich das Pixel noch bis 2025 nutzen.
Ich hoffe, die Gerüchte stimmen, dass Apple ab 2025 PWM-frei sein wird.
Zumindest das neue Samsung-Display, welches im Google Pixel 9 Pro XL steckt, macht Hoffnung.

 

[Heman87]

I

It sounds plausible. Samsung and Apple are well aware of the issue. Maybe Apple finally said they would only accept PWM-free displays starting in 2025.

The SE is adopting OLED panels so there would literally be no option for PWM-sensitive users.

I’m almost at the point where I would use an iPhone 16 even with 24/7 migraines, as crazy as that sounds, and I pull back from the idea when I consider long-term health and impact.

Please don’t 😀

Don’t get your hopes up for the SE. I think apple want to offer the phone cheap as possible. So they won’t invest to much in R&D. My expectations is the phone will be very similar to the 14.

If the rumor is true the first PWM free or with a high PWM will be the 17.

 

[motrek]

I haven't read all 436 pages of content on this thread but has anybody mentioned OLED subpixel arrangement??!

(A quick google indicates that nobody has brought it up.)

Apple's OLED displays all have Pentile-ish subpixel arrangements which makes it literally impossible to display horizontal or vertical lines with clean straight edges.

So lines are always going to look a TINY bit blurry. I'm sure that could easily cause eye strain for some people.

 

[jtl_]

It sounds plausible. Samsung and Apple are well aware of the issue. Maybe Apple finally said they would only accept PWM-free displays starting in 2025.

The SE is adopting OLED panels so there would literally be no option for PWM-sensitive users.

I’m almost at the point where I would use an iPhone 16 even with 24/7 migraines, as crazy as that sounds, and I pull back from the idea when I consider long-term health and impact.

Not saying it's false, but I'd like to see actual citations rather than someone quoting someone else.

 

[now i see it]

Well - my friend’s sister’ boyfriend’s hamster saw it on a post on Reddit quoting a girlfriend’s brother who read it on Mac Rumors

 

[MICHAELSD]

There is no consensus — which is likely why the OLED manufacturers (Samsung) can’t create an OLED panel that pleases everyone.
One panel might thrash a person while another person might not be bothered at all.

If this was their top priority I think they could do it, but it might come at the expense of color accuracy or the versatility of brightness.

Ross Young is definitely a vetted source, even if I couldn’t find the referenced Tweet or X. iPhone 17 will be a huge upgrade year, so if he did say it somewhere it’s probably accurate.

I have the tiniest glimmer of hope for iPhone 16 in two weeks, so we’ll see what happens.

 

[1369281]

If this was their top priority I think they could do it, but it might come at the expense of color accuracy or the versatility of brightness.

Ross Young is definitely a vetted source, even if I couldn’t find the referenced Tweet or X. iPhone 17 will be a huge upgrade year, so if he did say it somewhere it’s probably accurate.

I have the tiniest glimmer of hope for iPhone 16 in two weeks, so we’ll see what happens.

Hoping for the best, but when we can’t find the source (apparently the paywalled article was deleted), that’s not a great sign. I guess we will find out in 13 months.

 

[Abiyork]

Had an appointment with Apple today to replace the battery in my trusty Iphone 11 (it was 72% battery health)

When I told them the reason I was still on IOS16 they said their process for replacing the battery means connecting it to their system once the new battery is installed and I would need IOS17 or higher.

I kicked up a little of a fuss and eventually they said they'd 'find a way'.

All replaced and another years life in it.

Whilst in there I made the point of chatting to staff. Not one of the 4 I spoke to knew what PWM/Dithering does to us., however one replied 'today is your lucky day' `I can show you some settings regarding truetone that will make the issue go away..... 😫 we have a long way to go to keep this issue getting more interest and action being taken.

 

[Abiyork]

I have a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL here for the test.
Despite the settings, that doesn't cause me any problems.
For 3.5 hours at a time at a time, and everything was fine.
It may be worth testing the pixel for one or the other.
If the days continue, I consider not to use Apple smartphone anymore.

Great news. All still good?

Whats the returns process for these phones? are they as good as the Apple returns?

I have just seen I can buy this from Amazon on prime and they are great for returns.

 

[CocoPlops999]

Had an appointment with Apple today to replace the battery in my trusty Iphone 11 (it was 72% battery health)

When I told them the reason I was still on IOS16 they said their process for replacing the battery means connecting it to their system once the new battery is installed and I would need IOS17 or higher.

I kicked up a little of a fuss and eventually they said they'd 'find a way'.

All replaced and another years life in it.

Whilst in there I made the point of chatting to staff. Not one of the 4 I spoke to knew what PWM/Dithering does to us., however one replied 'today is your lucky day' `I can show you some settings regarding truetone that will make the issue go away..... 😫 we have a long way to go to keep this issue getting more interest and action being taken.

I was talking to two staff members when I got my iPhone 15 Pro and was explaining the issues. They were playing dumb until another staff member overheard and asked what the issue was. I told him, and he knew exactly what I was talking about. The first two looked furious. 😂

I ended up getting a base iPhone 15 and still had the same issues. The lady I spoke to the next time knew exactly what was going on, apologized, and sorted me out with a refund with no issues.

 

[Abiyork]

You mean pOLED. Motorola uses pOLED screens. LTPO or low-temperature polycrystalline oxide is a type of backplane tech used in OLED displays that allows your screen to operate at variable refresh rates, while using less battery than a standard OLED display. So that means 1hz to 120 refresh rates on a for example the iPhone pro models. The pixel line up has a 240hz PWM. It’s too low for me. I won’t try it.

Interesting..... the Iphone X also had fixed PWM at 240Hz and didn't effect me.

All other OLED's effect me immediately.

 

[Maven1975]

Are you sure? I read that they use the M14 displays from Samsung as the Samsung s24. But if you really want a pixel phone, Nick from Android central found a way to boost up the PMW frequency of the pixel 8 to 4800hz. But you will loose color accuracy. If I look at reviews of the pixel 9 I already see the screen flickering. So no good screens for me.

Motorla phones use really DC dimming method. So that’s why they are they community favorite with Xiaomi (13). Im going to try both phones next month if the iPhone 16 line up is the same as the 15 lineup regarding PWM frequencies.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1e69wgd

Anyway someone on Reddit said that Ross Young (a very trustworthy screen analist) that Samsung would provide PWM free OLED displays and that the iPhone 17 line up will use this technology. This is hopeful news but I can’t find the resource 🥲. So I’m not sure if this is true.

This can be achieved, but if the OEM is wants to implement cycling to save battery life, it’s wasted technology.

 

[ocean10]

I have a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL here for the test.
Despite the settings, that doesn't cause me any problems.
For 3.5 hours at a time at a time, and everything was fine.
It may be worth testing the pixel for one or the other.
If the days continue, I consider not to use Apple smartphone anymore.

Have you tried Pixels before and had them not work for you? I bought a Pixel 8 Pro to try this year and my symptoms were as bad, if not worse, than using an iPhone. Would be interesting if the Pixel 9 is an improvement somehow.

 

[Heman87]

This can be achieved, but if the OEM is wants to implement cycling to save battery life, it’s wasted technology.

I made the Pixel 8 Pro's display 20x better with a single line of code

And all it took was the work of a humble genius in the custom ROM community.

www.androidcentral.com