Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[ocean10]

I contacted them at the email they list on this page. Didn’t get very far but they did reply. It’s been over a year now so maybe it’s worth doing again. Also not sure if this is the best address to do it but I figured the accessibility team works with other vision etc. issues.

accessibility@apple.com

How to contact Apple for help with accessibility features - Apple Support

Get help, by phone or chat, with Apple’s accessibility features for speech, vision, hearing, mobility, and cognitive disabilities.

support.apple.com

 

[ghanwani]

I contacted them at the email they list on this page. Didn’t get very far but they did reply. It’s been over a year now so maybe it’s worth doing again. Also not sure if this is the best address to do it but I figured the accessibility team works with other vision etc. issues.

accessibility@apple.com

How to contact Apple for help with accessibility features - Apple Support

Get help, by phone or chat, with Apple’s accessibility features for speech, vision, hearing, mobility, and cognitive disabilities.

support.apple.com

Thanks. I sent them an email.

If anyone has technical knowledge in this area and wants to craft a message, perhaps all of us having a problem can send it in together. Maybe that will get their attention.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Thanks. I sent them an email.

If anyone has technical knowledge in this area and wants to craft a message, perhaps all of us having a problem can send it in together. Maybe that will get their attention.

I'm not saying that every effort is wasted, but there are users from here, Reddit and ledstrain.org who have emailed Apple about this issue many times over the years. I remember one user saying they had a response from the Accessibility team but nothing has changed. Someone even emailed an EU council department (health related) and got a response, but here we still are....

 

[ghanwani]

I'm not saying that every effort is wasted, but there are users from here, Reddit and ledstrain.org who have emailed Apple about this issue many times over the years. I remember one user saying they had a response from the Accessibility team but nothing has changed. Someone even emailed an EU council department (health related) and got a response, but here we still are....

I got a canned response.
"Thank you for your email. We appreciate you taking the time to provide this feedback, and will ensure that this information reaches the appropriate teams for review."

 

[Expos of 1969]

I got a canned response.
"Thank you for your email. We appreciate you taking the time to provide this feedback, and will ensure that this information reaches the appropriate teams for review."

"Bob, call the janitorial staff. We have more emails for the garbage bin. Mr. Cook says they will never be read again."

 

[jtl_]

I'm not saying that every effort is wasted, but there are users from here, Reddit and ledstrain.org who have emailed Apple about this issue many times over the years. I remember one user saying they had a response from the Accessibility team but nothing has changed. Someone even emailed an EU council department (health related) and got a response, but here we still are....

I've elaborated in depth elsewhere, but having dealt with other obscure technical issues, if such a reported issue doesn't have an obvious "cause and effect" relationship and miraculously makes its way beyond customer support to an actual engineer, unless they're really bored (joke) or experience it themselves you can count on them forgetting about it and going to work on something else. That's three (obvious) factors stacked against you.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've elaborated in depth elsewhere, but having dealt with other obscure technical issues, if such a reported issue doesn't have an obvious "cause and effect" relationship and miraculously makes its way beyond customer support to an actual engineer, unless they're really bored (joke) or experience it themselves you can count on them forgetting about it and going to work on something else. That's three (obvious) factors stacked against you.

Apple senior management and the accessibility team are fully aware of the complaints regarding eye strain & headaches, the forums + comments sections being full of them over the years. I suspect they even know the cause as they continue to tinker with iOS, iPadOS and MacOS, plus the display controllers. It's a limitation of the technology being used and the need to maximise battery life + profit. Apple will never acknowledge this.

 

[Martius]

Is there anybody who is gonna try the iPhone 16E tomorrow? I know it's probably gonna be same as iPhone 14, but I'm still curious.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Is there anybody who is gonna try the iPhone 16E tomorrow? I know it's probably gonna be same as iPhone 14, but I'm still curious.

My parents are upgrading from the SE 2022 so I will hopefully get to have a play for a few hours on the 16E when I visit them.

 

[Heman87]

guys don’t get your hopes up. I saw a short clip with the 16e review and it was clearly flickering

 

[Martius]

guys don’t get your hopes up. I saw a short clip with the 16e review and it was clearly flickering

Yes, I have seen unboxing by a czech reviewer and the screen was flickering in the slowed b-rolls.

 

[Corncab44]

Would it be expected to not flicker in videos? Isn’t it a question of rate/modulation and whatever else makes one OLED screen less bad than others for users?

 

[Heman87]

Would it be expected to not flicker in videos? Isn’t it a question of rate/modulation and whatever else makes one OLED screen less bad than others for users?

Yes for light/average sensitive users it might work. But if you are very sensitive I don’t think it will work.

 

[asus389]

I sent another note to feedback@apple.com. Maybe it will make a difference. Been an Apple customer since the 1980s. My first Apple product was, ironically, a Mac SE/30. Now that the SE 3rd gen is gone and the whole lineup is OLED I no longer have an upgrade path. Unless they change something with future displays.

 

[ghanwani]

I sent another note to feedback@apple.com. Maybe it will make a difference. Been an Apple customer since the 1980s. My first Apple product was, ironically, a Mac SE/30. Now that the SE 3rd gen is gone and the whole lineup is OLED I no longer have an upgrade path. Unless they change something with future displays.

This guy recommended contacting accessibility@apple.com.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eye-strain-while-using-iphone-x-and-up.2085427/post-33759345

 

[jtl_]

Apple senior management and the accessibility team are fully aware of the complaints regarding eye strain & headaches, the forums + comments sections being full of them over the years.

Apple *did* launch the MacBook's with LED backlit displays in 2008 that did aggressively flicker (this started the infamous Apple "eyestrain" thread on another forum). But by circa 2010 they quietly moved over to a different backlight controller that was better and the number of complaints did fall off a cliff. So they are capable of some innovation in this department. Unfortunate not seeing it play out in entirely the same way this time.

What I was saying was more a general statement, but in my career I've dealt with issues that seem simple but until someone demonstrates a reproducible "cause and effect" relationship they don't get solved, and factor in being a company that's more aggressively "siloed off" from the public such as Apple, and that's yet another barrier.

I suspect they even know the cause as they continue to tinker with iOS, iPadOS and MacOS, plus the display controllers. It's a limitation of the technology being used and the need to maximise battery life + profit. Apple will never acknowledge this.

I think I might've seen a mention of the display being potentially an issue for headaches and seizures in one of their "health and safety" guides. But I can't find it now.

 

[2mw2]

Unsurprisingly the 16e does flicker. I have a Radex Lupin and it shows the flicker.


At 50% brightness, auto brightness on, True Tone on

At 70% RWP, auto brightness off, True Tone off

 

[pwm away]

Unsurprisingly the 16e does flicker. I have a Radex Lupin and it shows the flicker.

I also went to the store today, and measured with the Radex. Very similar results to yours.

I spent a bit of time using the phone, and it didn't seem to have an immediate bad effect. Ultimately, I decided to wait on it a bit.

How are you finding it so far?

 

[DJTaurus]

Unsurprisingly the 16e does flicker. I have a Radex Lupin and it shows the flicker.


At 50% brightness, auto brightness on, True Tone on

At 70% RWP, auto brightness off, True Tone off

Yes but do those numbers seem on the low end ?

 

[pwm away]

Yes but do those numbers seem on the low end ?

In the same range as the iPhone 16/16 Plus

 

[BigBen2493]

Unsurprisingly the 16e does flicker. I have a Radex Lupin and it shows the flicker.


At 50% brightness, auto brightness on, True Tone on

At 70% RWP, auto brightness off, True Tone off

Looking forward to the Notebookcheck and Dxomark findings as well

 

[PwmMen]

Yes but do those numbers seem on the low end ?

In the same range as the iPhone 16/16 Plus

Explains why the iPhone 16 Plus works so well for me.
The numbers are not bad and I still have no problems.
I'm happy every day to be away from the iPhone se 2022. Instead of riding a bike, I now drive a Ferrari.
The display alone is a revelation. The size and quality is so perfect for me.

 

[pwm away]

Explains why the iPhone 16 Plus works so well for me.

Did it take you a while initially, to get used to it, or did it work out from the beginning? And do you use auto brightness, and default settings?

While I was in the store for the 16e, I also looked at the rest of the 16 range. None of them felt significantly bad, but it was a short period only. It makes me want to give them another try and/or try the 16e.

I recently got new glasses, which are meant to better fix my astigmatism, and slightly increase the prescription. I wonder if this potentially adds some relief to our sensitivity.

 

[PwmMen]

I use it with the default settings and it hasn't caused any problems since the beginning.

 

[ocean10]

Would it be expected to not flicker in videos? Isn’t it a question of rate/modulation and whatever else makes one OLED screen less bad than others for users?

I think there is something else going on besides (or in addition to) PWM flicker. I'm super sensitive but recently found an old Samsung Galaxy III in a drawer and it flickers like crazy but gives me no symptoms. I also have an Apple Watch 6 that has PWM but also doesn't give me symptoms (many new Apple watches I can tell are bad for me when I look at them on other people's wrists).

I can use older iPads and the SE3 but only if their iOS is earlier than either 16.1.1 or most iOS 15 versions. Changing the software makes a device go from pretty much perfect (use for unlimited amount of time) to unusable.

This seems to be going on for many people on the Mac side of things as well. There are threads on here, Apple Support Forums and also places like Ledstrain.org where people can't use their Macs after software updates.

So it feels like it's at least possible to have a device with PWM and also have it be comfortable to use.