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It can be WAY longer than 5 minutes, depending on how busy the airport is. You can sit on the tarmac for 45 minutes or longer waiting to take off. So from the push back from the gate to 10,000 feet could easily be over an hour.

Reading on my ipad via my kindle app or on my kindle itself should be allowed during that time.

It's not so easy ... The airline has to be sure you were informed about the emergency procedures (if you are reading on your iPad how could you look at the hostess or the screen in front of you ?) ... During a crash landing, or an aborted takeoff, is better don't have people with headsets pumping music in the ears .... There are quite a lot of reasons to keep people attention during takeoff and landing.

I think it's safe to reduce that window at takeoff and landing procedure only, so it will be no more than 10 minutes each fly.
 
Here's your evidence - if there was the slightest actual chance an active phone could bring down a commercial airliner, they would not be allowed in the cabin. Period.

I fly all the time and never turn my phone off. I occasionally use airplane mode on long international trips to save battery but that's the only reason.

It's useless. Last time we had this discussion here the data was presented overwhelmingly proving that there is no risk, and yet here he is again making the same statements.

As I said last time, the last 20 years have provided the largest field test you could possibly ever hope to complete for such a 'study'. Literally billions of passengers on hundreds of millions of flights have used every device available in every conceivable configuration. And yet there hasn't been a single accident attributed to consumer electronics interference. There is nothing a limited test could tell us that we don't already know.
 
As a pilot I can tell you that each and every single one of you is overlooking one of the main reasons we do not want solid electronic equipment in use during takeoff and landing. During a crash these devices turn into heavy flying missiles.

I don't care what the FAA say on this matter, as it is only a recommendation, however there will be no devices used on my flights during takeoff and landing.

So you are okay with my hard cover copy of war and peace then (which ways much more than my ipad)?
 
Sorry, but this is one of those things that they need to disprove better than they have. The document does show several incidents in which the pilots were able to show correlation between a device being on, and the experienced anomalies. I would really like for people to be able to use their stuff on a plane. Mainly so they'll just shut up and quit their bitching. But I also want some very conclusive evidence that the interference can't happen before they relax the rules.

Sorry, but you can't disprove everything 100%. Many rules are based on percentages and acceptable risks. Based on the thousands of "tests" performed everyday, I think the risk, if there be any, is within the acceptable range. Just like the risk that the engine will fail, etc.

If you are that risk adverse, you may want to never get in an automobile.
 
It's useless. Last time we had this discussion here the data was presented overwhelmingly proving that there is no risk, and yet here he is again making the same statements.

As I said last time, the last 20 years have provided the largest field test you could possibly ever hope to complete for such a 'study'. Literally billions of passengers on hundreds of millions of flights have used every device available in every conceivable configuration. And yet there hasn't been a single accident attributed to consumer electronics interference. There is nothing a limited test could tell us that we don't already know.

No one is telling you consumer electronics interference could affect aircraft safety .... We are speaking about other issues.
 
Oh great a couple hundred jacka***s yakking loudly on their phones through the flight. Another reason I don't fly commercial.
 
I see the same questions and comments over and over again, from people are obviously neither pilots nor engineers. Let's review some:

But my radio / device is in receive only mode.

ALL digital electronics are transmitters. CPUs require oscillators at MHZ to GHz frequencies. Those are transmitters. Even receive only simple transistor radios have oscillators that transmit.

I don't understand why pilots can use iPads but I can't.

The use of those two iPads in the cockpit has taken most airlines over a year to test and get approved. There is no way that those results carry over to dozens of other people using electronics.

How can electronics so far from the cockpit interfere?

The radio antennas, anti-collision antennas, their wires, and all the modern electronic control wires run through the cabin. You can easily be just a few feet away from one of those. There are cases where pilots have gotten emergency automatic climb/descend commands that likely came from passenger electronics in a seat nearby one of those cables.

Why aren't they worried about outside interference as much?

An airplane is what's called a Faraday Cage, because it's a closed metal tube (or a composite with embedded metal for lightening protection). This prevents outside signals from entering the cabin (except through the windows). It also tends to keep the signals that originate inside, inside and bouncing around.

But interference can't bring down a plane, so why should I worry?

Text messages don't stop a car's engine from working, yet they have caused many wrecks and deaths.

Interference, as in disabling something, is usually not the problem. The problem is causing distractions to the pilots or interference to instruments. Safe flight, especially when in the airport area for landing or takeoff, is highly dependent on good communications and no distractions. Non-pilots don't realize that it takes very little to cause an aviation accident, especially when low and slow and in a crowded airspace. All it needs is a chain of little mistakes.

If it's dangerous, why do they allow usage above 10,000 feet?

10,000 feet is also where speed limits change, radio comm rules change, separation distances change, all sorts of things change.

This is because the more altitude you have, the more time that pilots have to debug a problem.

But some airliners have WiFi

Above 10,000 feet. They also use low power, and expect the passenger devices to likewise use low power. See below.

Got an example of an interference?

I have previously posted quite a few examples from the NASA database. GSM buzz, false anti-collision alarms, navigation instrument wonkiness, and autopilot shut-offs are the main ones.

Handled high up, they're not so bad. Within the airport environment, they're a potential accident chain cause.

Here's a good example: Recently, Boeing engineers were certifying one of their airliner models for WiFi. Quite by accident, they found that some laptops ramped up their WiFi power, causing the plane's WiFi to ramp up, and the interference caused the pilots LCD displays to go blank. (!) They fixed it by adding more display shielding, but ...

Consider if that had happened while landing at night or in clouds. It's been proven many times that without working instruments in dark or sightless conditions, a pilot's (and by extension, the passengers') life expectency is measured in minutes. (There was a 747 that crashed on takeoff at night, because of faulty reading instruments. The pilot accidentally rolled it upside down into the sea.)

Would you risk your familiy, or your child's life, just to use your iPad a few minutes more?

I think, until everything on an airliner is shielded and all signals sent by fiber optics, that this is a mistake.
 
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It's not so easy ... The airline has to be sure you were informed about the emergency procedures (if you are reading on your iPad how could you look at the hostess or the screen in front of you ?) ... During a crash landing, or an aborted takeoff, is better don't have people with headsets pumping music in the ears .... There are quite a lot of reasons to keep people attention during takeoff and landing.

I think it's safe to reduce that window at takeoff and landing procedure only, so it will be no more than 10 minutes each fly.

And when I'm reading my magazine, I'm not paying attention to the flight attendant either. The fact is, I don't pay attention, since I assume if the plane crashes I'm dead.
 
No one is telling you consumer electronics interference could affect aircraft safety .... We are speaking about other issues.

Go back and follow the chain of quotes. That's exactly what he is claiming.
 
It's useless. Last time we had this discussion here the data was presented overwhelmingly proving that there is no risk, and yet here he is again making the same statements.

As I said last time, the last 20 years have provided the largest field test you could possibly ever hope to complete for such a 'study'. Literally billions of passengers on hundreds of millions of flights have used every device available in every conceivable configuration. And yet there hasn't been a single accident attributed to consumer electronics interference. There is nothing a limited test could tell us that we don't already know.

If there is no risk why do they now shield airplane from electrical disturbances? Prior to the 1970's airplanes were not shielded.
 
Would you risk your familiy, or your child's life, just to use your iPad a few minutes more?

I think, until everything on an airline is shielded and all signals sent by fiber optics, that this is a mistake.

Yet the data shows that this, in reality, never happens. Even if it did tomorrow, that would be ONE incident in hundreds of millions of flights. At some point there is an acceptable risk threshold that we have to accept for every activity. Consumer electronics on airplanes falls well below the thresholds that we accept for almost every other activity in our lives.
 
So you are okay with my hard cover copy of war and peace then (which ways much more than my ipad)?

No I certainly am not. My stewards would politely ask you to stow it away for takeoff and landing. If you refused I would have you ejected from the flight.
 
If there is no risk why do they now shield airplane from electrical disturbances? Prior to the 1970's airplanes were not shielded.

They are and should be shielded for all sorts of reasons. Consumer electronics are not a legitimate concern.

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No I certainly am not. My stewards would politely ask you to stow it away for takeoff and landing. If you refused I would have you ejected from the flight.

Not on a commercial flight you wouldn't, 'BadBoy'.
 
And when I'm reading my magazine, I'm not paying attention to the flight attendant either. The fact is, I don't pay attention, since I assume if the plane crashes I'm dead.

Such an ignorant point of view ... :rolleyes:

Most of the time air accidents don't kill all passengers. In case of emergency ground egress it's better to know what to do ....
 
Not worth all the fuss (and probably money) over it. Besides, they probably just tell you to turn it off so some idiot doesn't try to put it in airplane mode but fail to do it right and cause interference.

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Right, cellular signals (not wifi) interfere with speakers and microphones. I have that problem often with my computer speakers. Airplane mode phones are fine. I'm pretty sure wifi is not a problem either, especially since there's onboard wifi usually.

Yes, cellular signals *can* interfere with speakers or microphones...

...*IF* they are within a few inches of an unshielded speaker or microphone wire. So, any phone interfering with the crews headsets is going to have to be *inside* the cockpit.
 
Such an ignorant point of view ... :rolleyes:

Most of the time air accidents don't kill all passengers. In case of emergency ground egress it's better to know what to do ....

I know where the emergency exits are. And I can follow the little lights embedded in the floor and listen to the crew in the event of a crash.

I'm not a neophyte with air travel.

You realy think that most people in the midst of any air crash incident really remember what the flight crew said while taxiing? I doubt it highly. People react in the moment.
 
Yet the data shows that this, in reality, never happens. Even if it did tomorrow, that would be ONE incident in hundreds of millions of flights. At some point there is an acceptable risk threshold that we have to accept for every activity. Consumer electronics on airplanes falls well below the thresholds that we accept for almost every other activity in our lives.

I don't see it as an acceptable risk because its easily preventable. I don't see that one time happen when I'm the one on the plane and caused by someone else's stupidity.
 
I don't see it as an acceptable risk because its easily preventable. I don't see that one time happen when I'm the one on the plane and caused by someone else's stupidity.

I suggest you don't fly then. Because I guarantee that every commercial flight you are on, someone has a device not powered off during takeoff and landing. Bet on it.
 
Yeah, that's utter BS. The crash position is so you are more likely to survive.

--Eric

The reason you're more likely to survive a crash in that position has to do with where your head goes. Specifically, it goes down between two sturdy surfaces, making it less likely to be hit by flying debris during the crash. It also minimizes the chances of neck/back injuries due to the forces involved.
 
I don't see it as an acceptable risk because its easily preventable. I don't see that one time happen when I'm the one on the plane and caused by someone else's stupidity.

It's not easily preventable. The only way to prevent it would be to not allow any electronics device on the plane. That's not going to happen.

Any other way you do it will be just like it has been forever; people by and large leave their devices on.
 
All of you raising concerns about lack of 100% proof of safety of using the Kindle App on my ipad during takeoff and landing -- there will never be 100% proof of a negative.

So either don't fly, or enjoy the new rules.

Thank you.
 
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