face id security

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Muscle, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Muscle macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    #1
    Say you don't want someone unlocking your phone or making an applepay / touchid payment, at least with touchID said someone had to physically force your hand / finger onto the home button.

    What is there to stop anyone from unlocking your phone / making payments if they can just pick up your phone and scan your face?
     
  2. DeltaMac macrumors G3

    DeltaMac

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    Jul 30, 2003
    Location:
    Delaware
    #2
    "What is there to stop anyone who just picks up your phone ... "
    As your "face" would also have to be there, then you would be the one that actively prevents the situation in the first place.
    If someone ties you up, so you can't move, then unlocking your phone is likely the least of your problems.
     
  3. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 28, 2017
    #3
    99.999999999% of the time an iPhone is lost or stolen, what occurs is the person who gets ahold of it is immediately declined access and would never be able to get into the phone. That's the reality. No one is taking phones and using someone's fingerprint and no one is going to be taking phones and holding them to someone's face to unlock the device either. Moreover, for all you know the device could scan for a face every 1min or per app, or every 10 seconds or constantly (unlikely due to battery).

    You're talking about non-issues. And by the way, anything you've thought of, the security teams at Apple have thought of around 2-3 years ago and about 1,000 other possibilities.
     
  4. Muscle thread starter macrumors regular

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    Oct 15, 2010
    #4
    If the FaceID is as easy to unlock your phone as the media is hyping it up to be (ie: can be unlocked when placed flat on a table, don't need you to face your camera at a certain angle, scanning / unlocking your phone in miliseconds), whats to stop anyone from unlocking your phone as long as you're physically present?
     
  5. Dave245 macrumors 604

    Dave245

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    Sep 15, 2013
    #5
    No one is going to steal your phone and point it at you in real world use. This reminds me of the people who were worried that someone might cut off their finger in order to use the finger print reader when Touch ID was first rumoured/then later announced.

    Apple are not new to the game when it comes to security and privacy, in fact they are very good at creating devices that are more secure than others in the market. Apple have been working on "Face ID" for around 10 years, during which time I'm sure they have thought about all of this stuff.

    http://bgr.com/2017/07/13/iphone-8-features-3d-facial-recognition/
     
  6. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 28, 2017
    #6
    My solution for you is to:

    A. Not buy the phone
    B. Go live in a hut in the woods
     
  7. r1biker macrumors regular

    r1biker

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    Sep 17, 2016
    #7
    It'll be nice and easy for the TSA to get into your phone at least. ;)
     
  8. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #8
    I wonder if my identical twin brother will be able to unlock my phone? If you haven't got to look directly into the camera and can unlock in pitch black, I doubt it matters if my iris is slightly different. Interesting stuff.
     
  9. warshaw macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    #9
    While it's unlikely to be a concern, I guess it's feasible that Face ID has the potential to be less "secure" than Touch ID. I think it would be easier to point a phone towards a persons face rather than take hold of their hand to place their finger on a small sensor. Imagine you're out and about and someone swipes your phone. Would it be possible for them to walk past you holding the phone at eye level to unlock it? And all the while you'll just be thinking that it was another annoying person with no regard for your personal bubble of solitude? We don't know the details of "Face ID", and I'll bet security experts will be fiddling with it immediately. Just one more week!
     
  10. Gathomblipoob macrumors 601

    Gathomblipoob

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    Mar 18, 2009
    #10
    I read somewhere recently that a twin's face would not work. I'll try to find the link to the article.
     
  11. DeltaMac macrumors G3

    DeltaMac

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    Delaware
    #11
    Yep, identical twins may be identical in appearance, but perhaps will not disturb a facial recognition scanner at all.
    I think it would make an interesting experiment. Come back with results after you let your twin try to unlock your new iPhone.
     
  12. nviz22 macrumors 603

    nviz22

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    Jun 24, 2013
    #12
    It's normal for doubters to exist, but remember, Apple has a solid reputation with security and encryption. Plenty of Apple people probably paid attention to Samsung's security flaws and worked harder to avoid a similar pitfall. Just wait to see how FaceID works before coming up with realistic and unrealistic circumstances.
     
  13. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #13
    I was only throwing a point in there for discussion, not kicking a Granny in the shins.
     
  14. Zxxv macrumors 68040

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    Nov 13, 2011
    Location:
    UK
    #14
    Just pull a strange face when you set it up.
     
  15. psynnott macrumors 6502

    psynnott

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    Jun 18, 2012
    #15
    I'd rather not pull a strange face in the office every time I want to unlock my phone.

    Closing one eye may be more acceptable and have the same effect.
     
  16. shyam09 macrumors 68020

    shyam09

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    Oct 31, 2010
    #16
    T'was the night before Christmas, and all was dark. I decided upon a walk, through the famed Central Park.

    I skipped and jumped, spun and turned. That's when a random man approached, his face was burned.

    He grabbed my beloved iPhone, the one I purchased just now. It had FaceID and everything, a definite wow.

    As he rushed off, I let out a scream. "Help me, Help me, that man just stole my dream!"

    A few minutes later, I collapsed in distress. None had come to my aid, oh the unkindness!

    That's when I heard footsteps, was it my savior? No! It was the rotten man with the rude behavior!

    He stood a few distance away, holding my phone in the air. What was he doing, care to share?

    And that's when it clicked, he was trying to use my face. Sucks for him that I had a bottle of mace.

    I sprayed that sh.it all over his eyes, and hit him on the head for good measure. That assh0le had taken my beloved, my dream, my treasure.

    Guess Apple really thought things through with FaceID after all. Otherwise, the thief wouldn't have come back to stand like a wall.

    So the story ends now, but the moral is real. FaceID is frickin' awesome, it's definitely worth the zeal.
     
  17. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 28, 2017
    #17
    Identical twins are identical in genes, but after birth they split in numerous ways due to epigenetics. Your faces are different, whether you can really tell or not.
     
  18. nviz22 macrumors 603

    nviz22

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    Jun 24, 2013
    #18
    Wasn't directly at you. Rather it's a general comment because people are pointing out would be scenarios that facial detection could be compromised or rendered ineffective. I think we should just give FaceID a chance because Apple is normally superb with biometrics and a secured OS.
     
  19. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #19
    I agree I'm sure they'll implement it better than anybody else. We'll find out soon enough but threads get very boring if we don't throw a few assumptions and 'what ifs' in there. Plus Apple have cocked up once or twice in the past with iPhone features so we know they don't get things right every time.
     
  20. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #20
    Yeah I know.
     
  21. nviz22 macrumors 603

    nviz22

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    Jun 24, 2013
    #21
    Oh in that case, then yeah you could have fun with what ifs.
     
  22. Relentless Power macrumors Penryn

    Relentless Power

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    Jul 12, 2016
    #22
    I think consumers doubt this Company's security methods because of two reasons:

    1.) They don't have a full understanding of how this technology operates and they continue to speculate the worst possible scenarios until Apple debuts the technology, which the consumer will later have the opportunity to test and evaluate themselves.

    2.) Some Consumers don't trust Apple because they don't like the fact that Apple is removing touch ID and replacing it with face ID, therefore their negativity affects their mindset of how this technology could actually be possible.
     
  23. nviz22 macrumors 603

    nviz22

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    Jun 24, 2013
    #23
    Agreed. One week and change to go until people are proven wrong.
     
  24. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #24
    Never assume. I don't fit either of those narratives and I seem to have stirred the hornets nest by adding a couple of questions here purely for discussion purposes.
     
  25. Relentless Power macrumors Penryn

    Relentless Power

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    #25
    Actually, I stated think, which translates into my belief, not a fact that applies to everyone. It's my theory of two generalizations based off my readings Over the past few weeks on the iPhone forum . And if anyone chooses to discuss mySub-points, "Stirring" the hornets nest is not my goal, civilized and cordial discussion is.
     

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37 September 4, 2017