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My parents never spied on me, read my emails, my text messages, etc. and I don’t do drugs or bully anyone. Generalizing a bit, aren’t you?

I will fully encourage my children to use encrypted messaging to eliminate any possibly of me spying on them


Do you have kids of your own yet? Who would be in this target demographic? You can do everything right with your own child and trust them implicitly, but many times the issues come from "the other" kid(s). If your child is being bullied, you want (need) to know about it sooner rather than later.
 
My baby is only one year so it is too soon to be worried about social media, but it is something I'll have to face in a few years.
I still don't know what approach to take, if I'll forbid her to use Facebook or if I'll try to monitor her by allowing only certain people to connect on social networks.
In my country we say "you put your kids under a bell jar" when you try to isolate them from the world, you're too anxious and control every minute of their life. I don't think it works, or at least I don't consider it to be good parenting.
Saying no to social networks doesn't seems like a good approach to me, at least when they are in their adolescence since they're going to find a way to chat or to hang out with people anyway.
 
There will soon come a day when Facebook will want to target a version of itself specifically for infants who can't read and write yet, using advanced facial recognition technologies to interpret their expressions and emotions and allow a way for them to communicate with their mothers and fathers more efficiently and effectively.

Already there is an affliction of social media addiction, and now we are trying hard to include a strata of humanity that was so far unaffected with this disease.
 
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Kids should be allowed to make their own mistakes, it’s how they grow up. You can guide and teach your children without being overbearing surveillance.
These days some of their mistakes have consequences like ending up in a sex trafficking ring or saying or doing things that lead other children to commit suicide. Then everyone wonders “where were the parents?”

There was a very recent case of a 13 year old girl whose parents trusted her with her smartphone until they found out she was in contact with an adult male who clearly was grooming her for exploitation. The parents confiscated the phone, kept an eye on her and turned the phone over to the police for investigation into who the man was.

Somehow the girl got hold of another iPhone without the parents knowledge. Her mom drove her to school, the girl attended one class, ditched the rest of school, went to a train station and conned some woman into buying her a train ticket to where the predator was waiting for her. Thankfully, police rescued the girl with information from the woman who had been duped into buying her the ticket. The girl was apparently to have been entered into a child trafficking operation.

Because of struggles and odd behavior patterns I’ve noticed in an extended family member struggling with addiction, I’ve been reading a few case studies of psychopaths, and there is apparently a spectrum in psychopathy that doesn’t involve the kind of murderous behavior we commonly think of when we hear that word. In fact, the psychopaths on a spectrum are more a danger to themselves than to other people, because they don’t have the same emotional reaction to traumatic situations that most of us have. They can repeatedly lie very creatively to keep putting themselves in situations where they will be abused or take drugs until their stomachs need to be pumped. They will have near death experiences and their only reaction will be “oh, interesting.” It boggles the mind at how non reactive they are to the havoc they cause and experience.

The normal authority figures in their lives will be puzzled not knowing how to reach these kids. Logic and reason do not work. The kids can understand the logic and reasoning of appeals to their common sense on a cognitive level, as most of them are quite intelligent, but it won’t work because they make no emotional connection to the words and can’t internalize the advice or pleadings of their horrified parents. What happened to this young girl is almost a word for word typical experience of one of the recurring mental patients in one of the case studies I read.

If you’re the parent or guardian of such a person, there is nothing you can do but exert surveillance and direct control until that child turns 18 and then you are forced to turn them loose into society at large, which is wholly inadequate to the task of keeping such people safe from themselves.

I am thankful that by sheer luck I don’t have to deal with that sort of thing myself. If I did, you can bet I’d be authoritarian. If I discover in the future that my trust is misplaced or I failed to see a pathology right under my nose...and I’m humble enough to acknowledge it could happen because psychopathy is a very tricky thing to detect sometimes, I will become like a Communist China and monitor everything I can. The person I bring into the world by my choice is my legal, moral, and ethical responsibility until the legal age of majority. After that, if they want to entrust their safety and well-being to my care, it is my great honor and privilege to continue to help look after them as they find their own footing in the world and become full fledged, mentally matured, capable adults.
 
These days some of their mistakes have consequences like ending up in a sex trafficking ring or saying or doing things that lead other children to commit suicide. Then everyone wonders “where were the parents?”

There was a very recent case of a 13 year old girl whose parents trusted her with her smartphone until they found out she was in contact with an adult male who clearly was grooming her for exploitation. The parents confiscated the phone, kept an eye on her and turned the phone over to the police for investigation into who the man was.

Somehow the girl got hold of another iPhone without the parents knowledge. Her mom drove her to school, the girl attended one class, ditched the rest of school, went to a train station and conned some woman into buying her a train ticket to where the predator was waiting for her. Thankfully, police rescued the girl with information from the woman who had been duped into buying her the ticket. The girl was apparently to have been entered into a child trafficking operation.

Because of struggles and odd behavior patterns I’ve noticed in an extended family member struggling with addiction, I’ve been reading a few case studies of psychopaths, and there is apparently a spectrum in psychopathy that doesn’t involve the kind of murderous behavior we commonly think of when we hear that word. In fact, the psychopaths on a spectrum are more a danger to themselves than to other people, because they don’t have the same emotional reaction to traumatic situations that most of us have. They can repeatedly lie very creatively to keep putting themselves in situations where they will be abused or take drugs until their stomachs need to be pumped. They will have near death experiences and their only reaction will be “oh, interesting.” It boggles the mind at how non reactive they are to the havoc they cause and experience.

The normal authority figures in their lives will be puzzled not knowing how to reach these kids. Logic and reason do not work. The kids can understand the logic and reasoning of appeals to their common sense on a cognitive level, as most of them are quite intelligent, but it won’t work because they make no emotional connection to the words and can’t internalize the advice or pleadings of their horrified parents. What happened to this young girl is almost a word for word typical experience of one of the recurring mental patients in one of the case studies I read.

If you’re the parent or guardian of such a person, there is nothing you can do but exert surveillance and direct control until that child turns 18 and then you are forced to turn them loose into society at large, which is wholly inadequate to the task of keeping such people safe from themselves.

I am thankful that by sheer luck I don’t have to deal with that sort of thing myself. If I did, you can bet I’d be authoritarian. If I discover in the future that my trust is misplaced or I failed to see a pathology right under my nose...and I’m humble enough to acknowledge it could happen because psychopathy is a very tricky thing to detect sometimes, I will become like a Communist China and monitor everything I can. The person I bring into the world by my choice is my legal, moral, and ethical responsibility until the legal age of majority. After that, if they want to entrust their safety and well-being to my care, it is my great honor and privilege to continue to help look after them as they find their own footing in the world and become full fledged, mentally matured, capable adults.

Oh wow. Respect and admiration to you. Your kid(s) are/ will be truly lucky to have a parent with your understanding.
 
Added information to clarify this... kids don't need Facebook account for this, it is directly linked and authenticated by their parent's account.

Cool. So Facebook can sell and monetize the kids without their actually having to have an account. Perfect!
 
When my son was small, he had an account on the iMac in the living room (no computer in his own room) with parental controls enabled, and it ran its web access through squid with DansGuardian enabled. Back in those days, you see, innocently typing "whitehouse.com" or "python.com" would yield a website no small child needs to see.

Parental controls can be (mis)used by authoritarian command-and-control parents, yes. They are also incredibly useful tools to help parents protect their children from premature exposure to adult content, as well as to prevent them from being exploited by predators of the sort @GrumpyMom described.
 
I love reading posts from people who have never have kids before, it's so entertaining.
[doublepost=1512426567][/doublepost]
My baby is only one year so it is too soon to be worried about social media, but it is something I'll have to face in a few years.
I still don't know what approach to take, if I'll forbid her to use Facebook or if I'll try to monitor her by allowing only certain people to connect on social networks.
In my country we say "you put your kids under a bell jar" when you try to isolate them from the world, you're too anxious and control every minute of their life. I don't think it works, or at least I don't consider it to be good parenting.
Saying no to social networks doesn't seems like a good approach to me, at least when they are in their adolescence since they're going to find a way to chat or to hang out with people anyway.

I'm in the same situation as you except my 3 yrs old daughter is already familiar with youtube (paw patrols!) and is proficient with all of our smart devices such as iPhone, iPad, remote controls. However, unlike lots of parents who hand their kids a iPhone/iPad and then forget about it, I keep a close eye on what my child is watching. You don't have to block your child from the world. Your child actually need to know how to use these technologies in order to learn and compete with their peers when school age arrives. Keeping an eye on the content they see is one of the most important thing we can do. They don't know what's good and what's bad yet, so it 100% up to us to show them appropriate content.

Like other parents said, balancing between structure and independent is the most important factors. You don't have to be friends with your child but you don't need to be dictator either. For me, I try to build a healthy relationship with my daughter and also draw the line when needed to. My daughter is not afraid to ask for youtube when she wanted to, in fact, she has her own iPad to watch. But she also knows that when I said "you can watch youtube for 15 mins" she knows I mean business. When the time is up and I come to take back the iPad, she peacefully hand it back to me. Of course, there was fighting in the beginning, but I just have to be persistent. Now she understands that I'm the parent, not a friend, but also not a dictator.

If you need some more help, there're services out there that can help you monitor apps that your child can use as well as setting a time limit so no sneaking in the middle of the night. A popular one is http://ourpact.com
 
It really has nothing to do with helicopter parenting (which I agree is a big problem today).

First, we're talking about kids who are just pre-teens. They're not even legally able to take a job to pay for a phone or the cellular bill, so they're almost always using a device that an adult owns and is funding.

Second, unlike phone conversations, all of these chat sessions have the ability to be logged and saved (and used against somebody at any time in the future). Most kids aren't too conscious of potential consequences of some comments said in anger or in jest (especially when there's no tone of voice to go with the comment to give more information about how to take what's said).

As a pre-teen, there shouldn't really BE any conversations you're having with friends, family, or anyone else that you're trying to hide from your parents? From experience with our own kids - if anything? Not getting to view what they've said in a chat session often leads to them making plans to go over to a friend's house without asking us first, and then springing it on us, last minute.

Helicopter parents, rejoice!
[doublepost=1512428057][/doublepost]I don't recommend "spying" on your kids. But you're being irresponsible as a parent if you don't at least make sure you CAN do a random check of their device(s).

My parents never spied on me either, but I grew up in a different time (1970's) where "spying" would have meant trying to pick up a phone extension and listen in on our phone calls, or maybe trying to find and read a diary if I had kept one.

Today, we have all of these tools to communicate with anybody in the whole world, at any time, and for the contents of the conversations to be saved and shared with anyone else, really easily. I love that technology has made all of it possible. (I ran a BBS in the 80's and early 90's because I was so fascinated by the promise of connected computers creating a whole new communications medium.) But there's a lot of responsibility that comes along with the power.

One challenge as a parent is, IF your kid screws up and starts doing bad things online? The general public won't say, "Not the parent's fault. He or she couldn't have known.... The kid is the only one to blame here." Nope ... they'll give YOU all the punishment and judgement for the wrongdoing, because "How did the kid get ahold of that phone? Who paid for their Internet connection? Who *could* have stopped it from happening but didn't lift a finger?"



My parents never spied on me, read my emails, my text messages, etc. and I don’t do drugs or bully anyone. Generalizing a bit, aren’t you?

I will fully encourage my children to use encrypted messaging to eliminate any possibly of me spying on them
 
Just because you *can* monitor your kids doesn't mean you will. My daughter has an iPhone and her class has huge group texts. I don't read through them, there are way too many messages. But, I do have all her passwords, lock screen code, etc., so that if I notice something out of the ordinary in her behavior, that I can access whatever she might be seeing.
As a parent I very much understand the reason why you would handle it that way.
Here’s why I’m hesitant to go all the way like you do, though: Our behaviour changes when we know we’re being surveilled. By knowing that her parents can access her private chats and messages whenever they want, not only may the way she phrases certain things change but she may also grow up feeling that surveillance is a natural thing and may thus be willingly accept excessive surveillance and invasion into her privacy that is more and more done by companies and public authorities (even in so-called „free countries“) nowadays.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be vigilant about what our kids are doing online but I’m afraid we’re making things worse by exercising total control over them.
 
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If you comment on this post you should actually mention if you have kids or not. When your small town rural Canadian school of 200 kids has a 12 year old who is a victim of cyberbullying and tries to hang herself maybe you will better understand why its nice to have the ability to step in if needed on someone under the age of 13s screen time.
 
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Agree that people without kids tend to have a different take on things than those of us who do.
But regardless? Even the unfortunate stories of suicides by pre-teens and teens claiming "cyberbullying" aren't really my main motivation for saying some parental oversight is appropriate.

I mean, even my next-door neighbor shot and killed himself as a teen, in the basement of their house, when I was growing up -- and no Internet or phone was involved there. These problems all stem from depression and a failure to grasp a reality that's bigger than the immediate group of peers a kid/teen is interacting with at the time.

Before the Internet and mobile devices were a "thing", we had to worry about real life interactions with friends and other peers at school. Having been bullied myself, growing up? I know how miserable it was, but I also learned that one of the best things to counter it was to broaden my horizons. For me, a big part of that was finally getting my parents to agree to let me switch schools after 2 years of begging and pleading. Another part was making new friends outside of school who shared my interests, and it was the computer bulletin board scene of the day that helped me do that.

These days, I think things are just "abstracted" another level because one's peers are likely to be communicating online, instead of only in face-to-face interactions. Plus, the groups of "friends" may just be strangers who all play the same online game or what-not. So a parent has little or no way to see what's going on unless he or she takes a glimpse into that online world that their kid is interacting in.


If you comment on this post you should actually mention if you have kids or not. When your small town rural Canadian school of 200 kids has a 12 year old who is a victim of cyberbullying and tries to hang herself maybe you will better understand why its nice to have the ability to step in if needed on someone under the age of 13s screen time.
 
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I see many people in this thread are using the exceptional cases of child predators and so on as a justification for behaving like a police officer with their kids. Of course, they will claim they love their kids and that they want "the best" for them. I don't doubt that. But they don't see the lasting damage they are inflicting to their children by being either authoritarian or overprotective.

They will surely argue "Do you have kids?". Everyone is free to parent as they want and project their own fears upon their children, but they shouldn't be surprised when their kid becomes unhappy or depressed or violent while growing up or stops talking to them once he becomes an adult. They will just be reaping the consequences of their actions as parents.
 
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A parents job is to spy on their kids so they don't end up a bully/bullied, addicted to drugs, in jail, or dead.

Kids with these parents that only provide "guidance" are the problem. Those kids do drugs & "share" with their friends, bully other kids at school, steal from people/businesses, and end up doing stupid stuff that gets other kids hurt/killed. If all parents were up in their kids business, that wouldn't happen.
Kids are smart enough to evade the spying of their helicopter parents. Meanwhile, they get annoyed by it. By the time they get caught, they don't even care, and it's too late.
 
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Oh wow. Respect and admiration to you. Your kid(s) are/ will be truly lucky to have a parent with your understanding.
Thank you. It can be challenging knowing when to watch and control and how much to step back, and when. All we can do is try our best. It’s always a relief when some extra tools come our way to help us do our jobs better. I appreciate your kind words.
 
As a parent I very much understand the reason why you would handle it that way.
Here’s why I’m hesitant to go all the way like you do, though: Our behaviour changes when we know we’re being surveilled. By knowing that her parents can access her private chats and messages whenever they want, not only may the way she phrases certain things change but she may also grow up feeling that surveillance is a natural thing and may thus be willingly accept excessive surveillance and invasion into her privacy that is more and more done by companies and public authorities (even in so-called „free countries“) nowadays.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be vigilant about what our kids are doing online but I’m afraid we’re making things worse by exercising total control over them.
But we ARE being surveilled. Not necessarily always by the government, but by big business and advertisers. There should never be any assumption of privacy on the internet. That ship done sailed.

I found and replayed for the kids every one of the queries made to OK Google on my account, including all the questions they asked about exploding farts. :p I showed them the extensive records Google keeps on me. Apple has a similar log but end users don’t have access to it.

Then there is the harsh reality that some of our texts are encrypted and “private” depending on the service used, but only until your “friend” on the other end decides it would be advantageous to share something you think you’re texting in confidence with the world at large on another social media forum.

There are some talks I give to the kids before entrusting them to sleepovers and cellphones and so forth. The talk that initially garners the most skepticism but always has them coming back to tell me “OMG, you were soooo right” is “The treachery of Friends.” For it is a simple fact of life that even the best of friends at certain ages and stages do certain kinds of crappy things to each other and it’s perfectly normal part of growth and development, but something to be aware of. It doesn’t mean that one’s friends are evil twerps, just human and that as humans they make mistakes that can have horrible repercussions they’re too young to foresee. And yes, even adults still do stuff like this. So...

We ALL should exercise careful thought and discretion to every word we commit to electronic form.

When my husband and I give access to a piece of technology or give the gift of a cellphone, we explain outright the access comes with terms and conditions set by us. They know they can circumvent the rules but mostly they do not, because there aren’t any rules in place that are to their detriment. We are happy to explain why we do what we do. They know we are their first, best advocates in this world.

Our rules are sensible and reasonable in that they are meant to address real problems a person could actually expect to encounter.

And no matter how much they may verbally protest, children and teens and even young adults seek boundaries and guidance. At least until they can gather enough experience and perspective to form their own boundaries. Without rules and limits and some structure, it’s actually very challenging to define oneself and find one’s center during the formative years.

Did you ever wonder about how easily it is for some young people to fall into cults or get drawn in by someone charismatic who tells them what to do? There can be many varied reasons, but to me it often seems like at least some of these people didn’t get that gradual handoff from parental policing to self policing. That’s something my husband and I strive hard to do, to let everyone know we are building only a foundation but they will eventually be taking the control and building the rest of their lives.

Reasonable, well thought out rules and boundaries don’t make kids more apt to be automatons. They’re actually necessary at certain stages of development for healthy psychological development. Once the developmental milestones are reached, you have an adult who actually can think for themselves and resist thought control from less scrupulous people.

But here’s one secret: I do create some rules I pulled out of my butt that have zero real world serious consequences if they are flouted or broken. Most pertain to standards of room cleanliness, some arbitrary dress code type of stuff, and language. Don’t get me wrong, the rules are still good ones, but nobody is going to end up trafficked or humiliated for life if they’re broken. The kids hear me complain about the state of their rooms, see me glare at poor grammar or attempts to create their own profanities, and tell them to go back to their rooms to change to an outfit better suiting the occasion and they feel like they’ve put in the requisite amount of rebellion when they address these issues on their own terms or get me to compromise. They’re happy, I’m happy, and the really important rules remain fully respected and intact. ;) And they are happy when they get to grouse with their friends about my “rules” —that really aren’t the rules they think they are. In fact I’ve overheard them exaggerating about how strict I am on those rules. I’ve asked about the exaggeration and was told “Ah, nobody wants to hear I’ve got a sane mom when their mom is a dragon.” :eek:
 
I see many people in this thread are using the exceptional cases of child predators and so on as a justification for behaving like a police officer with their kids. Of course, they will claim they love their kids and that they want "the best" for them. I don't doubt that. But they don't see the lasting damage they are inflicting to their children by being either authoritarian or overprotective.

They will surely argue "Do you have kids?". Everyone is free to parent as they want and project their own fears upon their children, but they shouldn't be surprised when their kid becomes unhappy or depressed or violent while growing up or stops talking to them once he becomes an adult. They will just be reaping the consequences of their actions as parents.

Spoken like someone who has never raised kids.
 
But we ARE being surveilled. Not necessarily always by the government, but by big business and advertisers. There should never be any assumption of privacy on the internet. That ship done sailed.
I still like to think there are some privacy havens left (i.e. PGP end-to-end encryption). Call me naive but I’d rather fight for these human rights than throw in the towel..

When my husband and I give access to a piece of technology or give the gift of a cellphone, we explain outright the access comes with terms and conditions set by us. They know they can circumvent the rules but mostly they do not, because there aren’t any rules in place that are to their detriment. We are happy to explain why we do what we do. They know we are their first, best advocates in this world.
Establishing a sense of basic trust in one’s children is something I strongly believe in as well. It’s something that parents consciously need to build and maintain from the very first day their kids are born. As this is key to raising individuals that can think for themselves and have a full-grown common sense, I’d go as far as to argue that this may actually even be more effective than being able to read all their chat logs as soon as they’ve reached an age where they’re constantly connected like the rest of us are..

And they are happy when they get to grouse with their friends about my “rules” —that really aren’t the rules they think they are. In fact I’ve overheard them exaggerating about how strict I am on those rules. I’ve asked about the exaggeration and was told “Ah, nobody wants to hear I’ve got a sane mom when their mom is a dragon.” :eek:
Haha, well said! To me that shows they’ve reached a great level of empathy towards others as well as trust and honesty with their parents. :cool: Thanks for sharing this!
 
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