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appears you don't actually know many people in US...out of 389 contacts I have, 346 of then use whatsapp....and I only told about 19 to download the app to date.

Its not a only europe thing, whatsapp has been global and it is quiet big in north america and has been exploding in international markets as it is the most cross-platform there is [when it comes to phones, with support for every OS]

I don't know. I talked to someone who has over 1100 contacts and only 37 had installed whatsapp and of those most had never use it.

I think it depends on whom you interact with, although whatsapp seems to be strongest with third world countries.

Personally I have zero use for it as the majority of people I communicate with have iOS devices and the rest have access to no extra cost SMS messages.

I have since seen some of Zuckerberg's grander world goals with Internet.org but I don't see fb ever getting their financial value out of this acquisition. If I were a shareholder I would not be supportive of this expenditure/

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appears you don't actually know many people in US...out of 389 contacts I have, 346 of then use whatsapp....and I only told about 19 to download the app to date.

Its not a only europe thing, whatsapp has been global and it is quiet big in north america and has been exploding in international markets as it is the most cross-platform there is [when it comes to phones, with support for every OS]

Also I don't he the whatsapp being big in North America. Most NA users no longer have seperate SMS plans so short of those with large international contact lists it doesn't really make much sense.

I would be surprised if the number of regular and active whatsapp users in the US was very high.

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This is false. iMessage does not compress photos unlike BBM or Whatsapp. To make matter worse iPhone camera app doesn't have the option to take smaller resolution picture.

That and spotty Apple server result in slow upload when you send your pics using iMessage. Doesn't matter if you have speedy network, it will still be slow.

You send a picture taking a bath with your dog weigh 3MB. Yeah, priceless :rolleyes:

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Well I paid equivalent to $40 for 5 Mbps DSL line. And this is the best I can get over here. You want to switch place? See if you still feel pay too much for 100 Mbps :eek:

So you prefer apps that make your pictures look worse?
 
Facebook is scared. They should know by now that their time is limited. I can't believe their stock will ever be higher than it is now.


I'm sure Microsoft, Apple and Cisco received the same commentary at many points in the past 20 years.

Arm chair CFO's are almost as fun to watch as wannabe lawyers and CIA agents. XD
 
I'm sure Microsoft, Apple and Cisco received the same commentary at many points in the past 20 years.

Arm chair CFO's are almost as fun to watch as wannabe lawyers and CIA agents. XD

Yeah but really. At least Nokia had some tangible assets when MS plunked down its money for that. Are we saying 30-odd engineers and a fat address book will prove out worth 19 billion dollars? Who know what the contacts overlap is, anyway. If they know, then some funny stuff has been done with user data on both sides prior to the merger going into effect...
 
How about some options to choose resolution? How about, you know preview photos? Do they need to be in full resolution? Not everyone is photographer, nor everyone want the full sized photos either

Options are good but he was responding to someone who was in favor of apps just deciding to reduce and compress images on their own, which is absolutely the worst possible path.

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How many of those users are new to Facebook though? A small percentage overall, I'd guess.

Since a significant percentage of them are on feature phones I disagree. But those people will likely never be on facebook. This does not really expand Facebook's userbase at all.
 
Everyone complains that facebooks product sucks, they're a terrible company, and Zuckerborg is a first-rate asshat. How do they still exist?

How has, in all this time, no one else put together a decent social media platform that people actually like? Or an auction site? I'd have thought after the first 6 months the great "competitive ideas marketplace of the innernet" would have laid waste to Facebook and Ebay both. Neither company should have gotten this far.

Yet they continue, with their billions. Crazy.

Personally I don't think there is a need for a one stop social media site. That is what the totality of the Internet is. The ability for thousands and millions of disparate sites and apps to connect people.

Facebook had/has its place essentially as a friend finder. After that though we are looking a a re-AOLization of the online world. There are plenty of other ways to accomplish all of the other things Facebook does and as users we benefit if they are not all under one roof or sphere of control.

Whatsapp comes into existence as part of that bigger Internet which is the Ultimate social media. We don't need a social media site. We need all the sites with their own value that allow us to connect and interact in unique ways and for unique purposes. In fact the whole idea of a "social media site" is antithesis to what has made the Internet so overwhelmingly succesful.

Consider every website as an interchangeable block where we can each construct our social media reality. The great part about it is we as individuals can easy add on new sites that offer new benefits and technologies. At the same time we can remove sites that have become old, tired and less useful. If people continue to think as one site, like Facebook, is social media, then they are beholden to what they decide is important, what they decide needs to be updated, and what they decide is no longer useful.

However if we all discard this notion of a centralized social media site and instead utilize the while of the Internet to construct our own unique social experience, everyone is better off.

If things had advanced differently and Facebook messenger was the defacto world wide message service then whatsapp might no longer exist. This is not good for anyone. I think narrowly focused sites and apps tag focus on doing one or only a few things extremely well is the better route. We as users can then pick or choose what is best for us. The more all the tools get centralized under one banner the more limited our future experiences will be.

Facebook has acquired two companies who do exactly what I am talking about in Instagram and whatsapp. For the time being they will remain relatively autonomous. However this is an impossible long term reality for a publically traded company. For the good of the Internet and all its users there is no doubt in my mind we all would have been better off if Instagram and whatsapp remained independent. Not just independent from Facebook but from any company trying lasso the entire social experience.

Google does some things amazingly well and thus provides multiple quality pieces to the Internet as building blocks. However I believe it is a very good thing that google has struggled with google+. I don't want all the building blocks coming out of one factory.

So for me it is great that Facebook is an amazing tool for finding old friends or keeping tabs on new ones. However I wish them failure on pretty much everything else they try to do. It is one reason why I am a fan of twitter. They have been one thing from inception and become an invaluable building block for most people constructing their own social media reality.

The crazy thing is that both Instagram and whatsapp started off as iOS apps. Something that was not even intended to exist in the original iOS/iPhone plans.

Do people who regularly use whatsapp really want to have to run the Facebook app some day to send whatsapp messages? Some day that will happen. It may not be for a long while but it is coming. Mobile device apps perfectly illustrate what I think social media building should be. I don't want to load a single does-it-all app. I want to use twenty different apps that all do their part the best.

The Facebook acquisition actually opens a huge door for potential competitors who up until now have failed to understand why whatsapp succeeded. I think it is possible for someone to take the same basic blueprint but move it to the next level. While we have seen several people saying they are going to stop using whatsapp due to the purchase it is hard to tell if that will have any significant impact. Long term, though, Facebook's ownership will show, both good and bad. Whatsapp business model was never one that was going to make a great deal of money but it did/does have a relatively low amount of overhead per user. So its real endgame was always going to be with a bigger company footing the bill. Perhaps it is all just part of Zuckerberg wanting to nobly bring the Internet to the whole world. That is besides the point. I root for failure here simply because an independent replacement serves the Internet and the world better in the long run. We don't need and should not want Facebook for games or doing SMS type messaging or any number of other things. We should want Facebook to excel at being what Facebook was originally designed to do.

If that allows them to spend 19 billion dollars to try and bring text messaging to the world fine. However that is like $3 for every person on earth. The upside is that this gives them fewer resources to try and expand "social media" under the Facebook umbrella. There is zero chance Facebook will ever financially break even on this investment let alone profit off it. So in the end it benefits us all. Whatsapp just supports the idea that the independent building blocks are what make the Internet itself social media. Now it is time for them to step aside for the next wave.
 
Hence my point. He's a smart man. And an extremely rich one. And no one here knows how this latest acquisition will pan out.

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Google became a giant, it would be difficult to knock them off their throne. Other companies do advertising too. Currently the same holds true for Facebook. I'm sure that they will fade away, maybe sooner than later. But to call a young man who made a mult billion dollar empire out of chatting with his fellow students an idiot is comical.


From a financial standpoint it can't really pan out. It is not uncommon to expect such business acquisitions to recoup the investment over ten years. Leaving out that it was a stock purchase and even dropping off the three billion dollars in employee options, we can say it was a sixteen billion dollar investment. That means you would want to generate profits of 1.6 billion dollars a year. To make it easier lets give them twenty years to recoup their investment (which is absolutely insane for an Internet/technology acquisition but gives the biggest benefit of the doubt). They would then have to generate 800 million dollars a year in profit. With 450 million users they would have to makes less than two dollars a year, profit off each user. From everything I have seen they are a tightly run group with extremely low overhead, relatively speaking. However they only charge $1 a year after the first year.

Given some of the details we have heard about the deal, it seems unlikely advertising will be a part of whatsapp any time soon and I suspect it is more likely the annual fee would go way before it was raised. Let us say the $1 fee stays as is. Then there is growth. How much room is there, realistically to grow the platform? Some people simply will never need or want it due to other options. So let us say they can grow to 750 million users, on average over the next twenty years. Let us also say they have 90% margins. So they will net out 675 million dollars a year, on average, for the next twenty years. That still only gets you to 13.5 billion dollars of your original 16 billion dollar investment. Factor in the cost of money over twenty years and you are way behind.

So giving the deal the most favorable possible terms it still only gets you back 85% of your investment in twenty years. (Remember I left off the three billion in options too).

Any changes to the yearly charge or introducing advertising would have drastic impacts on how many users you would have. From a financial perspective the deal makes zero sense. It does not really allow Facebook to expand their own brand except slightly and the ugly truth is it is to users who are significantly less valuable.

I will truely be fascinated to see what becomes of it, but it certainly was not structured or intended as a money making deal. Facebook's stock is significantly overvalued as it is so perhaps they are not really giving up as much as it seems. I am just curious as to the real reasons for the deal and what interesting things that might uncover or lead to for the Internet.

It is not like business deals aren't made all the time where there is no chance in recouping the assets invested. I just do not think any of those deals were a fraction of this size. I have bought businesses before for sums that I knew I would never make back but instead for other reasons. In one case I did so simply because I knew the customers of the business would be in a bad place and I could afford to do so. To me this is the most fascinating thing Facebook has ever been a part of, including its very birth. I think this could turn out to lead to something very cool that impacts the Internet and more importantly the world or it could just turn out Mark Zuckerberg is bat s crazy.
 
has there every been any data on the crossover of the fb userbase, instagram userbase, whatsapp userbase and even the snapchat userbase?

i mean for a longtime the reason for the fb valuation was tied to the immense number of users (right term would by number of accounts/active accounts) but later they have added more advertisement revenue. but basically my question is that if there is a serious crossover of those respective userbases than what worth is there really in the fb´s users?
 
Another company that produces no products and is free to use that's apparently worth billions. Reminds of me that Saturday Night Live skit about the Change bank that made change for people's dollar bills. There was no charge for the service and the joke was they made up for that through volume. Hilarious....but kind of silly.

Does some wall street goon just grab a number out of a hat and add some zeroes to it? Why not 73 billion? Or, heck, 31 trillion? What's the difference anyways?

I remember when you used to have to work hard and start a company from scratch and build it up slowly but surely with innovative products that make the world better. Now? It's just a "get extremely lucky with some URL and sell it really quick". Great. Zero work involved, pure luck. Whatever.:rolleyes:
 
An instant messaging app is worth more or substantial compared to heavy engineering companies like say Caterpillar or Boeing etc...

I thought I would never see this day!
 
I'm sure Microsoft, Apple and Cisco received the same commentary at many points in the past 20 years.

Arm chair CFO's are almost as fun to watch as wannabe lawyers and CIA agents. XD

Microsoft, Apple, and Cisco all had products that actually made money, Facebook just has advertising.
 
An instant messaging app is worth more or substantial compared to heavy engineering companies like say Caterpillar or Boeing etc...

I thought I would never see this day!

Same here, crazy interesting times.
 
Going for Telegram

European people are going for Telegram. I'm scare about whats gone do Facebook with my phone book. Anyone knows when it will be available heml.is ?
 
I really enjoy talking to people using the FaceTime audio. The voice sounds so much better (HD quality) and it really cut out a lot of the usual background noise you usually get, if you guys haven't try it you should. When you and your buddy are at home (so it doesn't eat up your data plan), and see how much better it is compare to the regular stuff.

Ofc, FaceTime is the best thing ever. Talking via it almost every day. Compare to regular carrier calls? OMG !
 
Why is everyone here so against Facebook?

People saying "cant facebook just go away"... You don't have to use it, and there a tons of people who want to.
 
Why is everyone here so against Facebook?

People saying "cant facebook just go away"... You don't have to use it, and there a tons of people who want to.
It seems to be the "cool" thing these days.
 
Cross platform is a significant factor in the app's growth. iMessage will always be a niche product so long as it's not cross platform.

which, IIRC, the original pitch for iMessage is that it would be cross platform. Whatever happened to that I'm not entirely sure, but it seems like someone posted a link in one of these threads one time that went into a little detail about how it was getting the pinball treatment within the standards bodies that be.
 
In Europe, Threema is a good alternative to Whatsapp. www.threema.ch


Threema is probably the best (and only) option if you don't want to become subject for profiling and god knows what. Personally I don't see Telegram as option for any kind of privacy since it's financed by Russian VKontake aka "Russian Facebook" from that perspective Threema is much better option.
 
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