Facebook Claims Apple is Damaging Small Businesses by Collecting Fees From Paid Facebook Events

[FaustsHausUK]

Facebook is Damaging Small Businesses by Collecting Fees

Fixed the headline. Nobody sees my band’s posts unless we pay to promote. It’s not worth being on Facebook for basically anyone now.

 

[CthuluLemon]

Facebook is Damaging Small Businesses by Collecting Fees

Fixed the headline. Nobody sees my band’s posts unless we pay to promote. It’s not worth being on Facebook for basically anyone now.

Maybe both Apple and Facebook are screwing your band over. Just a thought, but a band that supports a corporation would be new, so maybe you’re onto something. I guess you do you, as the beastie boys said, you gotta fight for your right to defend your corporate overlord, or something like that.

You sound like a true artist, your band must be fantastic. It’s definitely a corporate plot to extort your artistic genius, what other reason could there be for your lack of success. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Alan Wynn]

Right now, Apple should consider immediately dropping the fees to 12-15% for software retail and digital content and 3-5% where Apple only acts as payment processor (no digital content delivery). That could probably put a halt to the investigations, but the more companies jump the train, especially those being rejected from the market (like game streaming) the more likely a regulation to not just lower the fees but also force an open market, which means Apple really needs to argue their case when rejecting apps.

Nope. That would not stop anything. If they are a monopoly, being a nicer monopoly does not help them. If they are not (given that world wide they have less than 25% market share, and in the U.S. less than 45%, it is hard to reasonably argue that they are), then their fees are theirs to set.

But that's not the worst case for Apple... the worst case would be that they have to allow 3rd party stores or sideloading.

Not worst case for Apple, worst case for the “Indie Developers“ (Especially angry ones like @Bobby424242) who will see piracy greatly increase and will discover that they costs of setting up and convincing users to go to their own stores, and/or explaining/supporting them sideloading their ups will far exceed what they pay Apple, and for users who will see security decrease, complexity increase (”wait, for that App, I have to create an account on this janky website, then down load this app, agree to bypass security controls, etc., this is better how?”).

Again, I still want to hear from people like @Bobby424242 about their experiences hosting an Android store and/or supporting side loading their apps.

I will laugh if Apple eventually allows side loading and other app stores, but says that those apps that are delivered that way, cannot participate in the App Store at all (“to prevent confusion”).

 

[cmaier]

Some of the people in this thread spent a looot of time defending Apple. Hmmm I wonder why?

Because apple is right and facebook has essentially destroyed society?

 

[Alan Wynn]

Because apple is right and facebook has essentially destroyed society?

Or maybe because Apple has brainwashed us using hypnosis on our Apple devices, or is holding family members hostage to ensure our compliance. It seems obvious that millions of people do not purchase these devices because the like them and prefer Apple's policies, but only because they are sheep and/or members of a religion/cult.

I am sure there are more tired cliches I can add, but I need to go drink my next glass of Apple supplied Kool-Aid (which I will point out to those who use the phrase without knowing its origin, actually means willingly committing suicide and is a reference to those People's Temple cult members who drank grape Flavor-Aid laced with Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide[158] and Phenergan.[159] as part of the murder/suicide pact with its Jim Jones).

 

[Analog Kid]

My Walmart has a Burger King, an Auntie Anne's, a nail salon, a bank, an eye doctor, and a hair salon. The two salons also sell HBA products just like Walmart. They even let Girls Scouts sell cookies as customers walk in. Most Walmarts are Mini Malls at the front, so arguing they don't allow other retailers in kind of rings hollow, even without your over-stretched brick-and-mortar v digital metaphor.

Is the argument here that we want Apple to be more like Walmart? You're not getting me onboard with that one...

 

[Alan Wynn]

Yes, but that doesn't make your argument strong. Do they take a 30% cut, do they just lease the space selectively? Hardly a comparison if you can't back any of the supposed similarities up. Try again, please. Conjecture isn't evidence.

Ralph’s, Target and Wal*Mart decide who leases space in their buildings and all take a percentage of gross sales. They can (and do on occasion), limit what of the vendor’s lines they are allowed to sell. Ralph’s and most (if not all) Target stores require that the vendors use their point of sale system. All these vendors are service providers, and while some also sell products, that is not their primary focus. Having had friends who ran the Starbucks in a Target, and two others who negotiated the leases for the internal Starbucks at Target and some of the McDonalds at Wal*Mart, I am quite familiar with the terms.

I don't have to like Walmart or Apple, I can be frustrated with and demand better from both. This is why arguing that the other kids did it too never works. Not on the playground, not in the real world.

On the other hand, on Android, almost no one has started their own store to compete with Google Play, nor do a meaningful number of companies deliver their product via side loading - both of which are allowed. I am still waiting to hear an explanation as to why these horribly abused developers are not doing this whole sale. Like Epic, their argument seems to be: ”Give us all these customers, access to all this infrastructure, just do not charge us for anything.”

That Epic sued Google despite their lack of restrictions for competing stores and side loading, gives away their hand.

 

[CthuluLemon]

Ralph’s, Target and Wal*Mart decide who leases space in their buildings and all take a percentage of gross sales. They can (and do on occasion), limit what of the vendor’s lines they are allowed to sell. Ralph’s and most (if not all) Target stores require that the vendors use their point of sale system. All these vendors are service providers, and while some also sell products, that is not their primary focus. Having had friends who ran the Starbucks in a Target, and two others who negotiated the leases for the internal Starbucks at Target and some of the McDonalds at Wal*Mart, I am quite familiar with the terms.

As I’ve previously stated, show me the details, the selectivity, what cut they take. I’m not arguing they don’t do what you’re saying, but if you don’t have facts, I’m not paying attention to you. I don’t like big box retailers, but I’m not going to let one industry slide just because retailers might do it to.

On the other hand, on Android, almost no one has started their own store to compete with Google Play, nor do a meaningful number of companies deliver their product via side loading - both of which are allowed. I am still waiting to hear an explanation as to why these horribly abused developers are not doing this whole sale. Like Epic, their argument seems to be: ”Give us all these customers, access to all this infrastructure, just do not charge us for anything.”

That Epic sued Google despite their lack of restrictions for competing stores and side loading, gives away their hand.

The option is there, regardless of it is being utilized, it’s a major difference between iOS and Android. I agree, Epic doesn’t have nearly a case against Google, but I’m sure they have their reasons for filing that suit, even if it’s just to come across as impartial rather than targeting Apple specifically.

At the end of the day, you ignored most of what I said and just rehashed arguments I’ve already addressed. Do better, please.

 

[CthuluLemon]

Is the argument here that we want Apple to be more like Walmart? You're not getting me onboard with that one...

No, my argument is that both Walmart and Apple and others are problems, and we should go after them all. It’s that thing I said at the end of my post, try reading it this time.

God I love fan forums, basic skills go out the window in favor of misplaced loyalties.

 

[Alan Wynn]

As I’ve previously stated, show me the details, the selectivity, what cut they take. I’m not arguing they don’t do what you’re saying, but if you don’t have facts, I’m not paying attention to you. I don’t like big box retailers, but I’m not going to let one industry slide just because retailers might do it to.

I gave you details (as an example the requirement that they use the host store’s Point of Sale system) and your response is give you details. Go look in the UK rent thread and you can see an example of a retail mall contract, that is much less restrictive than a rental space inside another retailer. You claim these things do not happen, but want the other side to prove they do. No point in arguing with you on it.

The option is there, regardless of it is being utilized, it’s a major difference between iOS and Android. I agree, Epic doesn’t have nearly a case against Google, but I’m sure they have their reasons for filing that suit, even if it’s just to come across as impartial rather than targeting Apple specifically.

Actually, as has been pointed out already, Epic did try to create their own store to bypass Google Play, and discovered that no one wanted to buy from it. After several months, they decided that 70% of something was better than 100% of nothing. They want to be in Google’s store and just not pay for it.

At the end of the day, you ignored most of what I said and just rehashed arguments I’ve already addressed. Do better, please.

At the end of the day, you do not care about facts, you want you want and do not care about all those who happily purchase these devices because of these rules, not despite them. You are welcome to live on a platform that follows the rules you want, please stop trying to destroy the one that many others have chosen because it suits our needs best.

 

[Analog Kid]

No, my argument is that both Walmart and Apple and others are problems, and we should go after them all. It’s that thing I said at the end of my post, try reading it this time.

God I love fan forums, basic skills go out the window in favor of misplaced loyalties.

That thing at the end of your post about Walmart being a mini mall?

"Go after them all"? "I'm not going to let one industry slide"? It sounds like you believe there's only one true business model, without room for variation or experimentation or, dare I say, deviation? That sounds like the words of a zealot, no?