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Facebook Criticizes Apple's App Store Policies, Launches Gaming App on iOS Without Games
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That’s the thing. It is perfectly clear that Apple only cares about its ecosystem. They don’t have to go thermonuclear or whatever on Android, because Android seemed pretty capable of imploding on itself.
If only Facebook had the guts to stand up to Apple, and withdraw its Apps from App Store., Apple will just keep repeating this.
Target doesn’t have the market share in retail that Apple has in mobile.
Worse than that though shopping at Target doesn’t prevent you from shopping at the adult store next door.
Apple not only has high market share but they own the access to people and act as sole gatekeeper. The same cannot be said for other platforms (Android, Mac OS, Windows etc).
Is it Target's fault if there is no adult store next door? What if the closest one is 50 miles?
And your same argument, Apple does not prevent you from using Android instead.
Any platform on any hardware owned or rented/used needs to be free or allow for competing platforms. All platforms also should abide by lawful content restrictions.
See how hard that was? This is how it is/was for desktops. Can we at least keep what ushered in a generation innovation in technology like we had never seen before?
Let people stay closed off if they want. Let people install what they want. Why have you all become so incredibly economically conservative? Why do you want FAAMG to crush all new companies? I do not get it.
That’s like the anti-gay-marriage advocates that said if you are gay you are still free to marry those of the opposite gender.
The whole point of anti-trust legislation is to protect consumers and promote market competition overall leading to a healthier marketplace at the cost of some corporate freedoms for extremely large companies.
You completely ignored my point about how Target doesn’t own access to. it’s consumers, so no it wouldn’t be Targets fault but they aren’t actively preventing that from occurring either (Apple is).
Apple will be forced to open access to their platform either by the US, EU (or more likely both). It will be good for consumers, creators and will create a healthier capitalistic marketplace. The only loser will be Apple but every other OS has made it work so I think they’ll do just fine.
When Microsoft got hit with anti-trust issues, they were practically the only OS vendor around.
It’s not the case here. Apple has always been a walled garden from the start with the exception of perhaps macOS. Heck, last I look Android still has the larger market share by a very wide margin.
Wasn’t that distinction the thing that was bandied about between Apple and Android? That is also it’s going to be hard to pin anti-trust issues on Apple since they could just say, well don’t like us locking down iOS, feel free to go to Android.
So why the clam or of all these companies trying to open up iOS all in the name of giving customer choice?
Because that’s where the money is. Microsoft is bungling up their gaming division. The Microsoft Store isn’t making much headway, people buying from Steam, Amazon, direct from EA, Epic having their own game store. They can’t win in their own freaking ecosystem with their own freaking store.
Everyone sees this. Apple sees this. You start letting people in, pretty soon anarchy sets in.
It’s not the case here. Apple has always been a walled garden from the start with the exception of perhaps macOS. Heck, last I look Android still has the larger market share by a very wide margin.
Wasn’t that distinction the thing that was bandied about between Apple and Android? That is also it’s going to be hard to pin anti-trust issues on Apple since they could just say, well don’t like us locking down iOS, feel free to go to Android.
So why the clam or of all these companies trying to open up iOS all in the name of giving customer choice?
Because that’s where the money is. Microsoft is bungling up their gaming division. The Microsoft Store isn’t making much headway, people buying from Steam, Amazon, direct from EA, Epic having their own game store. They can’t win in their own freaking ecosystem with their own freaking store.
Everyone sees this. Apple sees this. You start letting people in, pretty soon anarchy sets in.
Anarchy! More than one company providing software for the platform! More economic development! More job opportunities! Mark my words, Apple is digging their own grave if they do this for Silicon Mac.
Let's put things into perspective. It's not that easy for most people to switch from Android to Apple or vice-versa. I'd put it on the order of magnitude of moving apartments (not houses). Except these landlords only let you buy goods for your apartment from the leasing office. All your furniture, kitchen equipment, and office supplies. But hey! You can move to a new apartment complex!
We need new laws.
Yes anarchy! Can you provide software for iOS and Mac and iPadOS and watchOS? Can. You just have to abide by the rules Apple set.
You only need to see Windows as an example of what happens when everyone can do what they want.
Piracy. Hacked / Cracked software. DRM to fight piracy being worse than piracy itself. That’s just issues related to gaming.
You only need to see Windows as an example of what happens when everyone can do what they want.
Piracy. Hacked / Cracked software. DRM to fight piracy being worse than piracy itself. That’s just issues related to gaming.
It shouldn't be relevant either way. What percentage of installed apps on iOS are under Apple's heavily restrictive fee policy? This is just tunnel vision on old legal definitions that have no relation to how market power works in 2020.
EDIT: It's worse than that. This is a loop hole that is expressedly pursued by software companies. "We can't make money from selling software in itself so we'll create a marketplace and charge everyone else for selling their software on it." How much of tech has become just identifying legal and tax loopholes?
Windows OS itself is messy as hell but the fact that they created a platform for so many companies and developers to flourish is indeed fantastic. Unless you are developing a ad-supported free app to go around the rules or you yourself work for a S&P 500 company, iOS is a waste of time.
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That’s the thing, isn’t it?
If windows and android, being the open systems they are, is absolutely the best way for things to be done, why not concentrate all your efforts there?
Show Apple for the dinosaur that they are, locking down App Store and such. So very behind the times. Make xCloud so successful that Apple doesn’t have choice but to bend and allow you on their platform at your own terms.
I thought that was the best way for technology to thrive?
Some here spoke about how hard it is to move between platforms. I move between both all the time. About the only data that was problematic is WhatsApp. I don’t buy the hard to move between platform as the reason why you can’t just switch to Android if so many things you need aren’t on iOS.
Why do so many wants iOS to be more like Android rather than just go and use Android? O
If windows and android, being the open systems they are, is absolutely the best way for things to be done, why not concentrate all your efforts there?
Show Apple for the dinosaur that they are, locking down App Store and such. So very behind the times. Make xCloud so successful that Apple doesn’t have choice but to bend and allow you on their platform at your own terms.
I thought that was the best way for technology to thrive?
Some here spoke about how hard it is to move between platforms. I move between both all the time. About the only data that was problematic is WhatsApp. I don’t buy the hard to move between platform as the reason why you can’t just switch to Android if so many things you need aren’t on iOS.
Why do so many wants iOS to be more like Android rather than just go and use Android? O
It's not the job of market participants to set up a free and fair market. That's the government's job. And they perform this function in many markets. What you are expecting is impossible. This market will never be perfect, but this is just beyond the pale.
You have no problem switching between platforms. And yet you are posting comments about tech platforms on an apple forum. You aren't the median user. I'd like to say it would be no problem for me, but I go all in. It would be a major ordeal.
The government is welcomed to ensure fair and free market. What can be more free than having choice of platform? The consumer decides what they are willing to live with. Curated or free for all. Open or closed. The consumer decides, and they vote using their wallets.
Microsoft should know this, since they got the short end of the stick from the consumers when Windows phone failed.
Asking the government to mandate how an App Store should be managed? Opens up the Pandora’s box there buddy. Where does it stop? Should there be technical challenges, who foots the bill?
What happens when a government turns ******* crazy? Case in point, Huawei. They have roadshow up and down my country now promoting App Gallery as their new store, promoting it because they can’t load up Play Store.
I don’t have a beef with the US government nor China, yet when government meddles with tech due to politics, a very expensive phone can become a very expensive brick in minutes.
Thats why government should stay of of dictating tech. You can’t even be sure they’re doing it for the right reason.
Choices are there, it has long been there. The reluctance of those who wants to stick with iOS but wishes for it to be more open doesn’t make sense. It has always been a curated and controlled platform, a walled garden even from the start.
And even from the start, you have options. Choices. You’re not going to be 100% satisfied with any platform, but select one that gives you most Of what you want and need and go all in with that.
It’s that simple.
Microsoft should know this, since they got the short end of the stick from the consumers when Windows phone failed.
Asking the government to mandate how an App Store should be managed? Opens up the Pandora’s box there buddy. Where does it stop? Should there be technical challenges, who foots the bill?
What happens when a government turns ******* crazy? Case in point, Huawei. They have roadshow up and down my country now promoting App Gallery as their new store, promoting it because they can’t load up Play Store.
I don’t have a beef with the US government nor China, yet when government meddles with tech due to politics, a very expensive phone can become a very expensive brick in minutes.
Thats why government should stay of of dictating tech. You can’t even be sure they’re doing it for the right reason.
Choices are there, it has long been there. The reluctance of those who wants to stick with iOS but wishes for it to be more open doesn’t make sense. It has always been a curated and controlled platform, a walled garden even from the start.
And even from the start, you have options. Choices. You’re not going to be 100% satisfied with any platform, but select one that gives you most Of what you want and need and go all in with that.
It’s that simple.
The idea that we need new anti-trust laws that protect the economy from platform monopolies is not a "pandora's box", a slippery slope or whatever other metaphor you want to throw at it. The government already does indeed put legal limits on software. And they do put rules on markets, to varying degrees. This kind of argument has no bearing on what we are actually debating or frankly on the current reality. Just because you don't see government signs around every market rule does not mean they do not exist. Just because this would be new does not mean it is all there is. The government has a role to play in markets, in particular in anti-trust which is what we are actually debating. Also: Do I want the government actively managing what goes on an app store? Absolutely not. And having free platforms helps preventing this. You got this one backwards. Do I need to link to examples where the government was able to take down apps because of the power Apple has over the computing power of people?
Finally, we do have a choice. We have a political choice on what anti-competitive and economy-shrinking activity we are willing to allow. Users and companies however do not. They can pick one increasingly monopolisitc platform or the other. Because there are multiple monopolistic platforms does mean they are somehow fair or free markets. Not even close.
So, you want the government to tell of Apple to open up iOS in the name of open platform, while simultaneously wanting the government to not interfere with what goes on in an App Store?
Pretty much will not happen. Maybe you want to give examples of Chine where Apple has to play by the rules there? Is the US any better? Ban wechat, but not other games from Tencent. Ban TikTok, because god forbid, China has your data.
I understand the need for anti-trust law, but applying it to something as trivial as software? If a lifesaving drug, yes. Software?
Platforms and software have a very good way of policing itself. It’s called customer choice. Eu had at one point forced Windows to show a browser ballot, in part to help their own companies like Opera. Did it help Opera?
My argument is rather simple. Microsoft, you can’t put xCloud on iOS? Then instead of whining about it, make it indispensable on Android.
Asking government to legislate open platform is just asking a mouse to fix a pumpkin. (Local slang meaning asking a non-expert to fix something).
Pretty much will not happen. Maybe you want to give examples of Chine where Apple has to play by the rules there? Is the US any better? Ban wechat, but not other games from Tencent. Ban TikTok, because god forbid, China has your data.
I understand the need for anti-trust law, but applying it to something as trivial as software? If a lifesaving drug, yes. Software?
Platforms and software have a very good way of policing itself. It’s called customer choice. Eu had at one point forced Windows to show a browser ballot, in part to help their own companies like Opera. Did it help Opera?
My argument is rather simple. Microsoft, you can’t put xCloud on iOS? Then instead of whining about it, make it indispensable on Android.
Asking government to legislate open platform is just asking a mouse to fix a pumpkin. (Local slang meaning asking a non-expert to fix something).
One can argue that Apple is protecting customers by locking down their App Store and curating the apps before they reach the customer.
And while the price for that may be that certain app categories remain inaccessible to the consumer, it may be deemed a worthwhile trade off.
Sure, other OSes like android and windows are more “open” but at what cost? Malware and piracy remains a problem, and everyone’s response to that seems to be “yeah, it sucks, live with it so you don’t impinge on my freedoms”.
I do feel that the current locked-down nature of the iOS App Store is what results in the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of users, and that online uproars are often a poor representation of general sentiment on the ground.
Though I will say that Apple’s problem here is not that they are not allowing said app, but that they seem to be unable to justify their stance. I am willing to give Apple the benefit of a doubt that back when this rule was first instituted, it probably made sense to them from a business and philosophical standpoint, but maybe whatever reason they had in the past are simply no longer relevant today.
There’s a reason why I am all-in with the apple ecosystem and not android. My garden is not walled, it’s well protected, nourished, watered & kept in blossom by the best gardeners in the world. If there’s a weed, they wack it. If there’s a bad bug, they squash it. Everytime I walk in my garden I’m in awe of its palette & synchronicity.
I’ve seen the neighbours garden, and I am far less impressed. Sure there are way more flowers in the garden, but its formation is a mess & the lack of a fence just allows any dog to piss in it, weed to penetrate it & makes it harder to maintain.
Let me list down the benefits of the iOS App Store from what I can see:
1) iTunes means the developer never gets my payment information, and it’s convenient to be able to view and manage my subscriptions all in one place.
Perhaps Apple could and should lower their 30% cut, but that’s another discussion for another day.
2) Being locked down means software piracy on iOS is much less of an issue on iOS. There’s a reason why developers still favour iOS first despite android having the larger market share, and there’s a reason why iOS continues to lead the google play store in terms of paid app revenue. Because of how hard it is to pirate apps on iOS, most people have to buy apps the old fashioned way.
Grimvalor was released as an up-front paid app on iOS, but on android, the first act is free with an option to pay to unlock the rest of the game. Google for APKs for android apps and it’s amazing the lengths some people will go to just to avoid paying $1 for an app.
Opening up an App Store to third party app stores means being able to sideload apps, which in turn means exposing users to malware and allowing for app piracy as well.
To me, it’s not about freedom sucking, but about how we can go about making it safer and more convenient for users to purchase and download apps without compromising either, and from what I can see, the grass certainly ain’t greener on the android side.
Likewise, malware has probably slipped into the App Store from time to time, but Apple is able to remove them on a timely basis, and it’s still better to have an added layer of security standing in between the developer and the end user. Much better than the current “free for all” status on Windows and macOS, IMO, but again, that may just be me.
Like I said, there’s a reason I prefer apple over android. To me, android may let me do more (on paper), but it’s not giving me more of what I want. Conversely, iOS lets me do less (again, on paper at least), but it excels in the areas I specially feel in love with Apple in, and for me, what others feel are weaknesses and limitations of the Apple ecosystem, I find to be strengths and benefits and from what I can see, there does not seem to be a way of making the critics happy without giving up what makes iOS so uniquely iOS.
Walled garden and so.
And so, here we are debating online.
I am actually for the banning of wechat, though if it ever comes to that, I suppose Apple might make an exception and allow for the side loading of said app in the Chinese market in order to protect sales.