Facebook Crowned 'Worst Company of 2021' by New Survey

[JEY]

It took me a bit longer to dump Instagram once Facebook bought them, but I'm Meta-free as of this date (I never used WhatsApp). You were wise to have never been sucked into the black hole...

Congrats! That's awesome.

I'm being picky here, but even partaking in forums counts as partaking in the meta verse. IMO. You don't need to look any further than Reddit to see the potential negative effects.

I believe that macrumors forum users are at risk of being in a bubble as well.
God knows I've had to check myself from time to time. And I don't believe macrumours is bad at all. Nor do I think forums like this are bad, or anywhere close to being in the same arena as social media. But macrumors certainly profits from our squabbles and obsessions.

Food for thought. The effect of internet is a complicated beast.

 

[TechRunner]

I believe that macrumors forum users are at risk of being in a bubble as well.

I can agree with that. In my experience, the way to avoid the obsession is to have an existence outside the Apple garden, which I accomplish by using an Android phone and Windows 11 laptop along with my M1 Mini setup and my iPad.

 

[JEY]

I can agree with that. In my experience, the way to avoid the obsession is to have an existence outside the Apple garden, which I accomplish by using an Android phone and Windows 11 laptop along with my M1 Mini setup and my iPad.

That sounds like a great mindset.

I've been wanting to get an android phone for for awhile, though I'd find it hard to use it as my primary phone as my family is all in on iPhone. I just want to play with the other tech that is out there.

I run a MacBook Pro along with a less powerful Windows 11 laptop. I have the Windows machine mostly because I'm interested in tech, but also because it is useful in specific situations. Truthfully, it's hard not to be an Apple fanboy when I'm using Windows, but at least I can appreciate the pros and cons of each.

 

[dysamoria]

Most situations are not a physically real “both sides”, but when a side doesn’t have reproduceable evidence and/or refuses to show the data and methodology you frequently get claims of “both sides are” lying…wrong…. distorting the evidence or whatever even if both sides aren’t. And those claims get echoed by some of the media intentionally and by others because they don’t want to irritate customers, because most US news is tied to a corporation that is also trying to sell something.

The media sells the “both sides” garbage in a desperate attempt to claim being unbiased, when one side is repeatedly providing its own proof of obvious horribleness.

As for Reddit, I’ve witnessed the behavior. Social scientists have observed and reported on it. It’s not a media myth. Some of reddit is absolutely awesome, and some of it is absolutely horrifying. Like Facebook, the policing at the corporate level is atrociously insufficient, and the ideology of “free speech” is propped up to defend their choice to not deplatform groups of hate speech & cults. A few groups have been closed, but it was far too late.

 

[dysamoria]

You are right and I apologize for that. I was vague because I fear the nazi censorship that some coward apply. If you want to talk about I can answer you on private.

If you’re actually at risk of harm where you live, by all means stay safe. I felt that your use of words here was vague and inflammatory (such as “nazi censorship” and “cowards”), but seems like rhetoric against any kind of speech regulation.

In the USA, and in some other countries, there are sensible laws against certain types of speech (such as that which can promote violence). The laws are not always handled appropriately (we’ve had politicians get away with suggesting to their audiences that they attack political opponents in the audience, for example, and the law did nothing), and lots of those same types of people want to expand their “freedoms” while contracting the freedoms of their opponents by claiming “free speech” or “that should be illegal”. The laws are complicated and it’s a double-edged sword, as goes the saying.

Also, free speech in the USA does not grant people a platform to speak, nor does it grant them immunity from criticism for their speech. It only provides protection from government interference. Any privately owned platform can be policed, and censored, by its owner(s), and that is perfectly legal.

 

[MacBH928]

I hate to be so toxically pessimistic, but I believe we have already lost.

To continue your analogy on smoking, I’d like to point to Japan. In other countries there was no incentive for the government to promote smoking, in fact healthcare systems incentivized smoking being reduced or eliminated.

Japan’s government held a monopoly on smoking, and delayed efforts to reduce smoking because of the monetary incentive. They’ve had the lowest drop in smoking because of this.

Bringing this back to internet privacy, there’s no incentive for governments or corporations of the world to incentivize privacy. It’s only to their benefit if the population gives up as much information as possible.

Tracking and spying have become normalized and accepted already.

you are right but there is still hope to fight back and flip things over. There are fights like GrapheneOS(android), protonmail (gmail), firefox(chrome, edge, explorer), ddg, mojeek (google) , Linux (windows), signal (whatsapp) so better keep fighting than raise the white flag

 

[usagora]

I find this funny. They post an article the other day entitled "More Users Trust Amazon and Google to Handle Their Personal User Data Than Apple, Survey Suggests", and people here respond with "just shows you how stupid consumers are". Now they post an article entitled "Facebook Crowned 'Worst Company of 2021' by New Survey" and all of a sudden these same consumers are smart because they agree with your personal view 🤣

 

[heretiq]

Oooh, that's a fantastic idea. It was recommended a while back, but I forgot about it. Now if I can just keep her from falling asleep during movies!

Ha! The documentary is pretty compelling — so hopefully that provide inspiration to stay awake. Good luck!

 

[heretiq]

You're describing any company that's performed extensive (by today's tech standards) customer research, including Apple. This doesn't absolve FB of it. It pisses me off everywhere I see it. Just have to be aware of it and keep it out. A/B testing isn't as evil as you make it sound, but it gets devious when they start trying to alter user behavior rather than adapt to it. That seemingly innocent non-chrono feed many companies implemented was their way of saying, "now we're telling the users what they want."

Also what you're saying is true, but I would never trust a video documentary, primarily served for entertainment, as evidence.

My comment is not about A/B testing being evil — it’s about a powerful technique being used at mass scale by FB for an evil purpose .. coercion of its users.

The Social Dilemma documentary is a wake up call by insiders trying to explain an important, but complex topic to non technical audience. It is not entertainment. The producers are using a medium (video) and associated techniques that are proven effective for the task. If you haven’t seen the documentary, I recommend you take a look at it and share it with those in your orbit who may not be as familiar with the modern technologies of mass manipulation as you are.

 

[heretiq]

I guess I don't equate " knowledge of conditions I will click like" to "manipulation". My instinct to "like" comes first, and they are simply exposing existing predilections, no?

To see this we need only recognize that intra-group violence of exactly the kind blamed on Facebook existed long before Facebook existence in India, Burma, Rwanda, Balkans, etc. Isn't this just revealing who we've always been, but we're just seeing the ugly reality of the global masses vs. those with Ivy emails?

It does start with existing predilections. That is what creates the opportunity to influence. But as you know, Context matters: Presenting the same choice in different contexts can produce different behavior. Purposefully Engineering a context to optimize the likelihood of someone behaving the way you want them to behave + hacking their biology to reward them when they do = manipulation.

Yes, Facebook is not creating the social rifts, uncivil behavior and violence that we’re seeing, but they provide the tools to instigate and amplify them at an unprecedented level of precision and scale. And unfortunately, research including facebooks own, show that engagement is optimized by appealing to these dark tendencies. Since Facebook‘s advertising-based business model is fueled by engagement, they are incentivized to promote the content and encourage uncivil behaviors that optimize engagement.

This is the architecture of an intrinsically evil system.

 

[heretiq]

If you’re actually at risk of harm where you live, by all means stay safe. I felt that your use of words here was vague and inflammatory (such as “nazi censorship” and “cowards”), but seems like rhetoric against any kind of speech regulation.

In the USA, and in some other countries, there are sensible laws against certain types of speech (such as that which can promote violence). The laws are not always handled appropriately (we’ve had politicians get away with suggesting to their audiences that they attack political opponents in the audience, for example, and the law did nothing), and lots of those same types of people want to expand their “freedoms” while contracting the freedoms of their opponents by claiming “free speech” or “that should be illegal”. The laws are complicated and it’s a double-edged sword, as goes the saying.

Also, free speech in the USA does not grant people a platform to speak, nor does it grant them immunity from criticism for their speech. It only provides protection from government interference. Any privately owned platform can be policed, and censored, by its owner(s), and that is perfectly legal.

Well said. 🙏🏽

 

[heretiq]

The scale of monied disinformation campaigns have massively scaled up and their access to people is far greater. It takes considerable effort for people to check on the validity of the crap pushed into their faces, and it’s even harder to KNOW to do so when their acquaintances, friends, and family are the ones presenting it to them.

If you find it easy to wade through the muck, consider yourself privileged to extra time and practice with critical thinking and internet research methods. It’s not the norm. Just because actual facts are available online does not mean it is equally pervasive or equally accessible.

You’ve nailed it. Unfortunately, the OPs perspective “Why not? That's what has been expected of people for all time. It's never been easier to source accurate information so I don't see why it's so impossible to not believe BS” is not uncommon and diminishes the grave threat that industrial scale disinformation poses by ignoring it and placing the blame on the subjects of that disinformation — and not the proponents and enablers of it.

 

[heretiq]

Yes, it seems odd to use a video documentary to criticize Facebook of manipulation. Kettle black and all.

The Social Dilemma documentary is a wake up call by insiders trying to explain an important, but complex topic to non technical audience. The producers are using a medium (video) and associated techniques that are proven effective for the task.

Since you believe this form of documentary is improper to criticize Facebook, please enlighten us on what kind of documentary would you use to explain how social media works to an audience of ordinary, mostly non-technical people who grew up in the age of video? A 1,900 page written document, a two hour podcast, something other than video?

 

[KindJamz]

I’d blame your father

Who else would you blame?

 

[KindJamz]

I find this funny. They post an article the other day entitled "More Users Trust Amazon and Google to Handle Their Personal User Data Than Apple, Survey Suggests", and people here respond with "just shows you how stupid consumers are". Now they post an article entitled "Facebook Crowned 'Worst Company of 2021' by New Survey" and all of a sudden these same consumers are smart because they agree with your personal view 🤣

Welcome to Macrumors. Where madness happens