iPhone X FaceID and eye safety

stafil

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Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
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FaceID is like having the camera’s flash flashing in your eyes every 5 seconds. See the youtube video below. Notice how although I have the iPhone brightness at lowest level to accommodate for the dark environment, the "flood illuminator" lights up in full intensity, blasting the retina with IR light.


This like having the camera flash striking your eyes every 5 seconds. Would you be comfortable with that?

Edit: People are saying it's the proximity sensor. There are two kind of blinks. The first is the proximity sensor, every 2 seconds and its intensity if normal. Then second, is the flood illuminator, it's every 5 seconds or so.
 
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DeltaMac

macrumors G4
Jul 30, 2003
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OP may have professional knowledge about this issue, and might post actual evidence, without relying on opinions.
 

stafil

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Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
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Setting the phone to max brightness would be more dangerous for your eyes, as you can actually perceive visible light...
Hmm... OK.
What about that leads you to believe that makes it "dangerous for your eyes"?
Apparent brightness does not necessarily lead to "dangerous", does it?
As you can see the environment is dark and the iPhone's brightness is set to minimum.

Now picture this. It's night, lights are out and you have your iPhone at bed watching Netflix. The auto-brightness has adjusted the brightness of the screen to the minimum level and your eye's pupil is dilated. Then every 5 seconds the iPhone blast an intense (but invisible) light straight into your retina.

Is that really healty?

Would you have your phone in FULL BRIGHTNESS in such an environment? Wouldn't it hurt your eyes if you did?
 

New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
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OP may have professional knowledge about this issue, and might post actual evidence, without relying on opinions.
Come on, you know that's not happening.

Clearly it's an issue when the phone is charging, as the electrons are being mutated by the increased electrical input, which are in-turn firing straight into your eyes, causing electromagnetic interference within the optical nerve. The V1-5 then interprets this signal as odd, which confuses visual processing and makes brain hurty. It's really simple and logical if you just think about it.
 

Superrjamz54

macrumors 6502
Dec 4, 2015
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As you can see the environment is dark and the iPhone's brightness is set to minimum.

Now picture this. It's night, lights are out and you have your iPhone at bed watching Netflix. The auto-brightness has adjusted the brightness of the screen to the minimum level and your eye's pupil is dilated. Then every 5 seconds the iPhone blast an intense (but invisible) light straight into your retina.

Is that really healty?

Would you have your phone in FULL BRIGHTNESS in such an environment? Wouldn't it hurt your eyes if you did?
Would you walk outside in the sunlight knowing that your eyes and entire body is going to be lit up by infrared light?
 

New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
1,928
1,546
Shanghai
As you can see the environment is dark and the iPhone's brightness is set to minimum.

Now picture this. It's night, lights are out and you have your iPhone at bed watching Netflix. The auto-brightness has adjusted the brightness of the screen to the minimum level and your eye's pupil is dilated. Then every 5 seconds the iPhone blast an intense (but invisible) light straight into your retina.

Is that really healty?

Would you have your phone in FULL BRIGHTNESS in such an environment? Wouldn't it hurt your eyes if you did?
But, you cannot perceive IR light. What about IR makes you think it's not healthy? I'm not sure anyone can convince you otherwise as clearly this is a topic of passion, and whatever rabbit hole you've went down has given you a stern belief is some pseudo-science. However fundamentally, why IR?
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
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This seems like an over-reaction, but if you genuinely are not comfortable with it. Why not simply turn the feature off or purchase a phone such as the iPhone 8 that still uses fingerprint sensor?
 
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stafil

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Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
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This seems like an over-reaction, but if you genuinely are not comfortable with it. Why not simply turn the feature off or purchase a phone such as the iPhone 8 that still uses fingerprint sensor?
This *IS* with FaceID off!
[doublepost=1540787341][/doublepost]
Would you walk outside in the sunlight knowing that your eyes and entire body is going to be lit up by infrared light?
The difference is that your pupils are adjusted for the day light. This is like having a strong LED light blinking in your eyes every 5 seconds. In dark environments where your eye-pupils will be dilated this would create problems IR or not.
[doublepost=1540787705][/doublepost]
But, you cannot perceive IR light. What about IR makes you think it's not healthy? I'm not sure anyone can convince you otherwise as clearly this is a topic of passion, and whatever rabbit hole you've went down has given you a stern belief is some pseudo-science. However fundamentally, why IR?

"All infrared, visible or ultraviolet electromagnetic radiation can cause injury to the eye in sufficient concentrations, but this is very rare. ... Staring at any light source, including the sun, for too long can cause damage to the eyes, particularly in young people"

From: https://sciencing.com/infrared-light-effect-eyes-6142267.html
 

jeremiah256

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2008
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Southern California
From Apple's support page:

Safety
iPhone and the TrueDepth camera system have been thoroughly tested and meet international safety standards. The TrueDepth camera system is safe to use under normal usage conditions. The system will not cause any harm to eyes or skin, due to its low output. It's important to know that the infrared emitters could be damaged during repair or disassembly, so your iPhone should always be serviced by Apple or an authorized service provider. The TrueDepth camera system incorporates tamper-detection features. If tampering is detected, the system may be disabled for safety reasons.​

I'm guessing like @Superrjamz54 said, you get more IR from the sun when you go outside.
 

Superrjamz54

macrumors 6502
Dec 4, 2015
499
314
The difference is that your pupils are adjusted for the day light. This is like having a strong LED light blinking in your eyes every 5 seconds. In dark environments where your eye-pupils will be dilated this would create problems
Your eyes adjust to the light. The light from the phone will make the adjustment for your eyes. Do you view the screen with the screen off?
 

Deacon-Blues

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2012
571
651
California
Isn't that the proximity sensor? Which has been on every iPhone since forever? I sort of feel like your topic title is just a tiny bit click-baity and maybe a tiny bit alarmist. But I am open to evidence. I couldn't rule out the possibility that Face ID could cause harm, but it seems like the kind of thing Apple would have researched. We should keep an open mind without resorting to hair-on-fire panic for now.
 
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stafil

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
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Your eyes adjust to the light. The light from the phone will make the adjustment for your eyes. Do you view the screen with the screen off?
Did you watch the video?

That exactly my point. Your eyes adjust to the dark environment so your eye-pupils are dilated when this flash like intensity IR light striking them.
[doublepost=1540788871][/doublepost]
Isn't that the proximity sensor? Which has been on every iPhone since forever? I sort of feel like your topic title is just a tiny bit click-baity and maybe a tiny bit alarmist. But I am open to evidence. I couldn't rule out the possibility that Face ID could cause harm, but it seems like the kind of thing Apple would have researched. We should keep an open mind without resorting to hair-on-fire panic for now.
Did you watch it in full?

The proximity sensor blinks every couple of seconds and then you have a huge flash-like brightness from the faceid "flood illuminator" every 5 seconds.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G3
Sep 11, 2014
8,690
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You have Face ID turned off—check

Did you also turn off the Attention Aware Feature? If you don’t have that toggled OFF it says True Depth will check to see if you’re paying attention before dimming the screen or turning off.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
48,469
17,150
Proof in the youtube video below. Notice how although I have the iPhone brightness at lowest brightness level to accommodate for the dark environment, the "flood illuminator" lights up in full intensity, shocking the retina with IR light.


This like having the camera flash striking your eyes every 5 seconds. Would you be comfortable with that?
How could it be shocking something that perceives visible light with light that cannot be seen and thus cannot be perceived by it?

How is it anything like having a camera flash striking your eyes if in one case there is no light to be perceived while in another there is?
 
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stafil

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
425
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I'm guessing like @Superrjamz54 said, you get more IR from the sun when you go outside.
Your eyes adjust to the light when you are outside and in bright environments.

What the video show is the equivalent of being in a dark room and having your iPhone's camera flash go on in your face every 5 seconds?

Sure your eyes get exposed to light more than that of the iPhone's camera every day. But would you like it to blink in your face every 5 seconds?
[doublepost=1540789087][/doublepost]
You have Face ID turned off—check

Did you also turn off the Attention Aware Feature? If you don’t have that toggled OFF it says True Depth will check to see if you’re paying attention before dimming the screen or turning off.

Will do another video just for you. Hold tight.
 

Superrjamz54

macrumors 6502
Dec 4, 2015
499
314
Did you watch the video?

That exactly my point. Your eyes adjust to the dark environment so your eye-pupils are dilated when this flash like intensity IR light striking them.
[doublepost=1540788871][/doublepost]

Did you watch it in full?

The proximity sensor blinks every couple of seconds and then you have a huge flash-like brightness from the faceid "flood illuminator" every 5 seconds.
The second you turn the phone on your eyes automatically adjust to the light because your looking at a screen that is lit. Your eyes don’t get blinded by a non-visible light. I suggest using a phone that has no screen. That way your eyes can’t be blinded by anything. Maybe even a full blindfold when you venture into any room or area that is lit up with anything.
 

stafil

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
425
296
The second you turn the phone on your eyes automatically adjust to the light because your looking at a screen that is lit. Your eyes don’t get blinded by a non-visible light. I suggest using a phone that has no screen. That way your eyes can’t be blinded by anything. Maybe even a full blindfold when you venture into any room or area that is lit up with anything.
I don't think you understand what we are talking about. Did you want the video? Imagine the camera is your eyes. It has adjusted to the screen. Right? Then you see the sudden brightness flooding the full picture with light? That's what happens to your eyes to.

If you want to discuss seriously come back. If you are here for trolling and sarcasm, please move on.
[doublepost=1540789490][/doublepost]
Here you go. This will help.
Yes, very funny.
 

Superrjamz54

macrumors 6502
Dec 4, 2015
499
314
I don't think you understand what we are talking about. Did you want the video? Imagine the camera is your eyes. It has adjusted to the screen. Right? Then you see the sudden brightness flooding the full picture with light? That's what happens to your eyes to.

If you want to discuss seriously come back. If you are here for trolling and sarcasm, please move on.
[doublepost=1540789490][/doublepost]

Yes, very funny.
Guess what your eyes don’t see IR light at all. Are you a doctor? If you arent your opinion means the same as mine. Abbsolutely nothing. Your eyes adjust to the instant you turn on the phone. There is no actual proof what you are saying. Apple wouldn’t be allowed to use a feature that was unsafe.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
48,469
17,150
I don't think you understand what we are talking about. Did you want the video? Imagine the camera is your eyes. It has adjusted to the screen. Right? Then you see the sudden brightness flooding the full picture with light? That's what happens to your eyes to.
But your eyes don't see that.
 

serialiphoneuser

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2016
215
397
Your eyes adjust to the light when you are outside and in bright environments.

What the video show is the equivalent of being in a dark room and having your iPhone's camera flash go on in your face every 5 seconds?

Sure your eyes get exposed to light more than that of the iPhone's camera every day. But would you like it to blink in your face every 5 seconds?
[doublepost=1540789087][/doublepost]


Will do another video just for you. Hold tight.
But your eyes don't see that.
They're sensitive to IR. It's slowly cookin the retinas!
 
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