jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
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Apologies if this was commented on in others threads. If I missed it, would appreciate a link to that thread.

I ride a motorcycle (full-face helmet), I snowboard (goggles / face mask), I have a friend who owns a body shop and paints cars with a mask on, I have a friend who works in a hospital and wears a mask most of the time ... then you have your coal miners, people wearing burqas, and the list goes one. You get my point!

I do understand that iPhone X can penetrate through the makeup, beard, glasses but if FaceID requires full face scan, then iPhone X is a no go for many people just because of that limitation.

Thoughts?
 

jsmith189

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Jan 12, 2014
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Yeah, I mean there are always going to be limitations. If you're completely covering your face, Face ID won't work lol. Just like I can't use Touch ID if I have any water on my finger. That's why it's useful to always have the passcode to fall back on. :)
 
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jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
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I should have clarified ...

I didn't mean face completely covered. That would be a silly question. I thought that was understood. In most scenarios listed above, eyes / nose and surface around it are exposed but I may or may not be able to remove mouth mask.

I could see how many bike riders will pass on iPhone X just because of that limitation.

Yeah, I mean there are always going to be limitations. If you're completely covering your face, Face ID won't work lol. Just like I can't use Touch ID if I have any water on my finger. That's why it's useful to always have the passcode to fall back on. :)
 

dlewis23

macrumors 65816
Oct 23, 2007
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For those of us who ride a motorcycle Face ID could potentially be better then Touch ID. If the view of your face that it gets through the view port of a full face helmet is enough to unlock the phone it will be great because riding with gloves Touch ID is a no go.

Should be no problem with anyone who rides with a half or 3/4 helmet.
 

jsmith189

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Jan 12, 2014
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I should have clarified ...

No you're fine, I got what you meant, "face covered" was just an exaggeration lol. I just meant that if your face is obstructed, there are going to be times when it works and times when it doesn't. I don't think there's ever going to be a 100% solution.
 

New_Mac_Smell

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Oct 17, 2016
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We'll have to wait till they're released to see really.

But if someone is wearing a helmet/goggles, they're also likely wearing gloves. So TouchID would have been useless before as well I'd imagine...
 
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jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
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We'll have to wait till they're released to see really.

But if someone is wearing a helmet/goggles, they're also likely wearing gloves. So TouchID would have been useless before as well I'd imagine...
I see your point. I guess I'm thinking more from how quickly I can react to it. Taking a glove off is simple. Taking a helmet off is "PITA"! Taking a mouth-mask off may not be an option where glove would be acceptable.

For bike riders, there are plenty of iPhone-glove-friendly options so no, I don't have to take a glove off to use TouchID. Same options exist for snowboarders, etc.
 

New_Mac_Smell

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Oct 17, 2016
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I see your point. I guess I'm thinking more from how quickly I can react to it. Taking a glove off is simple. Taking a helmet off is "PITA"! Taking a mouth-mask off may not be an option where glove would be acceptable.

For bike riders, there are plenty of iPhone-glove-friendly options so no, I don't have to take a glove off to use TouchID. Same options exist for snowboarders, etc.

The touch friendly gloves just allow the display to read touch input no? They don't enable your physical fingerprint do they?

They've said it'll work with glasses etc. so you'll probably have to wait to see real world use. As for motorbike helmets, it's surely easier to flip up the visor than take off a glove?

Either way these technologies are a convenience not a replacement, so your passcode will always be available. If you could use TouchID before with your gloves then you'll still be able to unlock the device through a passcode.
 

jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
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As for motorbike helmets, it's surely easier to flip up the visor than take off a glove?
If you are wearing 1/2 or 3/4 helmet with visor, yes. If you are wearing full-helmet, flipping visor would expose half of your face. Eyes, nose. That's about it.
 

jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
11
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Are we really asking this question? It's not workable in EVERY situation. Same for note 8 etc
I don't care about note 8. Not sure how that is relevant to this topic. I'm not comparing iPhone to Note.

Simply pointing out many scenarios where inability of opening the phone could have been avoided if TouchID was kept (on the back of the device, if needed) with FaceID as another option.
 

vintage673

macrumors newbie
Sep 17, 2017
3
1
i would love to upgrade from my IP7+ to the X, but i cannot determine if i have it mounted on my motorcycle handlebars, that it will unlock when i wear a full face helmet. i read that the phone needs to see eyes + nose + mouth. with full face helmet on, your mouth is covered.

with the IP7+ on my handlebar i can unlock with my left thumb while riding. i use a Rokform mount. can't see any way to do this with the X.

may have to just get the IP8 instead. really like the X though.......
 

iSayBoourns

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Sep 15, 2017
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I wouldn’t be surprised if it still worked with a helmet. Craig Federighi mentioned in an interview that it’ll work through most sunglasses (as long as the lenses themselves don’t block IR.) FaceID utilizes at least 50 data points on ones face (going off the number used for animojis.) I’d imagine as long as it could see enough data points to verifiy it’s you then it should work.
 

tkermit

macrumors 68040
Feb 20, 2004
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fwiw, Apple seems to indicate that a face partly covered up like this would still be recognized. So it probably depends on the type of helmet you're wearing and possibly how well the machine learning adapts to your changing outfits:

face.png
face1.png
 

ges

macrumors member
May 20, 2016
65
34
I wouldn’t be surprised if it still worked with a helmet. Craig Federighi mentioned in an interview that it’ll work through most sunglasses (as long as the lenses themselves don’t block IR.) FaceID utilizes at least 50 data points on ones face (going off the number used for animojis.) I’d imagine as long as it could see enough data points to verifiy it’s you then it should work.
Any decent sunglasses SHOULD block IR if they're to protect from sun.
 

bransoj

macrumors 65816
Jul 31, 2013
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As per touch ID with gloves if it fails it falls back to the pin code entry and way and you carry on as you were.....
 

jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
11
0
i would love to upgrade from my IP7+ to the X, but i cannot determine if i have it mounted on my motorcycle handlebars, that it will unlock when i wear a full face helmet. i read that the phone needs to see eyes + nose + mouth. with full face helmet on, your mouth is covered.

with the IP7+ on my handlebar i can unlock with my left thumb while riding. i use a Rokform mount. can't see any way to do this with the X.

may have to just get the IP8 instead. really like the X though.......
This is the reason why i made this post. I highly doubt FaceID will work with FullFace Helmet. 1/2 & 3/4 it should.
 

Squirreljam

macrumors member
Sep 19, 2014
35
34
Chiming in (first post in a while too) as the helmet thing is interesting. One thing I haven't seen covered is whether you can record multiple faces as you can fingers for Touch ID. If you can, it *may* be simple just to record yourself regularly then do another "face" with helmet and visor/goggles/mask. In that case face Id would be a home run, avoiding the gloves thing altogether.

Anyone know about that?
 

jerseyjay

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
11
0
Chiming in (first post in a while too) as the helmet thing is interesting. One thing I haven't seen covered is whether you can record multiple faces as you can fingers for Touch ID. If you can, it *may* be simple just to record yourself regularly then do another "face" with helmet and visor/goggles/mask. In that case face Id would be a home run, avoiding the gloves thing altogether.

Anyone know about that?
One FaceID scan per phone, at least initially.
 

vintage673

macrumors newbie
Sep 17, 2017
3
1
anyone with the new iPhone X have any update on whether it recognizes you with a full face motorcycle helmet on?

i bought the iPhone 8 as i did not know whether this would work or not....

thx.
 
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